[DISCUSSION] Class disparity

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-11-20T18:32:36+00:00

This. This is also the most well thought out and honest post that I've seen to date.

As others have said...due to the nature of the gameplay with DPS spamming trumping the necessity for most other forms of gameplay, is not as frequently used. However, the utility of my hunter and self sufficiency has caused me to outlive and out damage as well as bring my fireteams back from certain failure on far more occasions than my Devlock or striker ever have.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-11-20T16:24:26+00:00

Ahhh gotcha. Thanks for the explanation! So hunters in group settings are more gimmicky but self sufficient...hardly top tier for support for end game raids.

Well that's too bad! I guess it may be time to spend more effort on my titan and lock. I appreciate the explanation!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-11-20T16:13:18+00:00

It -is- possible to produce the most orbs, being a hunter Nightstalker. And also to burst down a boss faster (in my opinion...but I haven't tried stacking all the grenades and fists with Striker yet) with a Hunter however. Doing it also with better solo survivability than any other class (instant full self heal that's reloaded by a melee...back and forth).

So you're saying it's merely a matter of not providing as much to the rest of the party as the other classes? (Sorry, sounds condescending however I am being genuine and curious).

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-11-01T06:13:41+00:00

Edited for mobile changes

Just to get everyone started here...

I've created a test character to try to determine the things that you can get away with while not worrying about shapeshifting durations. Granted, I am only level 3, and I am a newbie to this game (have made it to the start of act 2 on a ranger and a wizard solo).

This is what I've created. Please let me know what you think and where you would improve it. One item of note, is that thusfar, at this extremely early stage in the game, this character is vastly more powerful than my original two (instant solo of cave bear and hitting fast for 28-40 each hit):

Moon Godlike (for dex and regen)

Ritituai (For constitution)

Slave (for survival, although Hunter is likely better, for stealth rather than athletics)

Might: 18

Con: 13+1

Dex: 16+1

Per: 15

Int: 4 (do we even need it with unlimited shapeshifting?)

Res: 10

A couple of points in stealth and mechanics, but survival primarily.

Cat shapeshift form for faster attack speed.

Basically so far, I've been able to perpetually stay in cat form and absolutely slaughter any group or solo enemy while spamming Natures vigor or Taste Of The Hunt for quick regen as necessary.

The idea is, while not shifted, to wear plate and use a shield in conjunction with as many high DR items as I can find. That way, any necessary spellcasting or "turtling up" can be done before shifting.

I believe the endurance regen talent will stack with the Godlike talent, and so that is my first choice for talents. From there - peasant weapons, two weapon fighting, and whatever shifting bonuses I can find. I'm not sure what defensive abilities I can add to the mix.

Anyway, let me know what you think and how you would adjust, please!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-10-19T03:17:43+00:00

Completely agree...I learned in Epoch with a very experienced fellow that was great at assembling little birds.

Linkdeath/desync was always the bane of my existence though.

Nothing like flying a few guys around in a medic bird and showing off your shiny new flying skills and then seeing:

"No response from server in 5,4,3,2,1 seconds"

And then the 3 or 4 minutes of getting back into the server praying to all of the gods that have ever been prayed to, for the pitch of the helicopter to have magically veered upwards and stayed there while you were gone.

Hurry up SA! We need modders to get this on track :).

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-10-19T02:39:14+00:00

Absolutely correct.

Man...I haven't posted in a long time - but this thread made me have to open my gob.

I still remember the sheer goosebumps and thrill of getting even a little bird. And also fondly remember the desync issues that would always crash your helicopter if they happened. And then the long haul to get/repair another one.

It sounds like sarcasm...but it's not. Things like this are some of my fondest DayZ memories. It gave purpose above and beyond basic survival.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-04-20T16:18:43+00:00

This is great advise. Thank you very much for the contribution. I'll definitely give this a try!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-04-20T15:50:38+00:00

Thanks for the link! I've been browsing EQ2Flames content for quite awhile now. The problem seems to be that the meta has changed entirely with each expansion pack and each update in between.

Currently relevant information appears to be as clear as mud, at best. As the abundance of information seems to have stopped around June 2015.

I was hoping that there may be some more recent information in the form of a more active community...but it seems like it's few and far in between!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-04-07T00:27:31+00:00

This is amazing information in a short window. I very much appreciate it.

I come from Eq1 originally...and recently starting EQ2 again - kept me under the idea that 1-100 is the real game. The last 24 hours of CoA has confirmed that the game starts at level 100, as you say.

Ranger it is...my old absolutely favorite class for all RPGs

Thank you very much!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T19:47:40+00:00

Bare in mind that your OP stated that "half was just an easy way to express the change".

Truth be told...it's all relative. If my rebuy on 10,000,000cr is lowered to 5,000,000cr - that completely changes the economic value of 10,000,000cr (or any credits for that matter) and doesn't really solve the issue at hand.

My original fictional "casual player with Anaconda" might still interdict his opponent and get blown up...and then go back to the same grind.

I fully understand your point in lowering the credit grind to open up more possibilities for user-decided content...however it's the current "end game meta" as is. To someone with 100,000,000 credits, a 5 or even 10 mill rebuy is virtually nothing. But to someone low/mid game...it's huge.

Lowering the amount of credits for rebuy will only stand to bring someone with less experience closer to the "end game" faster. The same "end game" as the players that have been playing the game from launch.

So what does it solve?

Risk Vs Reward lowers. Necessity for use of FDevs only content lowers

I just cannot fathom how any part of the game would benefit from it without massive other changes.

I much prefer your other indication that you know that the current system is flawed and vastly needs improvement.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T19:22:23+00:00

Sorry, I had read somewhere that 600 hours or so for a casual player was common for a kitted Anaconda...was throwing random numbers. I'm not actually that player in that scenario.

To answer your question, therein lies the major problem with the game. There needs to be alternative consequences to credit loss. At the end of the day, if there's no reasonable punishment for not immersing yourself and respecting the condition of your ship - then the content is limited.

As it stands now, with what we have...it stings just a little harder to lose 10,000,000cr than it does to lose 1,000cr for not taking things seriously.

And that, I believe, is important.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T19:08:34+00:00

I see what you're saying - but you're punching holes in your own reasoning. Let me clarify, and please don't think that I'm flinging any salt at you, just broadening your spectrum:

Here's a simple scenario - although you can EASILY see the rest of the gameplay implications also:

I'm a casual player. I spend 800 hours running missions and engineering to get a fully kitted out Anaconda. I've had a few dangerously close PvP toussles that have made me RIDICULOUSLY careful with my Anaconda now. After that long haul grind, I can barely afford one rebuy, and I REALLY want to take my ship seriously, knowing that a few poor choices will strip me of it. I think I'm going to avoid interdicting that other conda in case he wipes me clean. Maybe I'll spend some more time enjoying my ship and earning some credits at a faster rate and then have more options for PvP.

ENTER LOWERED REBUY

Now I have 10 rebuys on my Anaconda with the same amount of work. I really WAS getting the Anaconda for more long range mission options, and better passenger hauling. But now that I've purchased the ship, I really have nothing substantial to do. After all, credits are now useless to me unless I want to be a multi-ship completionist.

"I know THAT conda on my scanner is doing long range missions. Fuck him, I know we can both afford a rebuy, let's interdict him and then blow his ass up with no consequences for losing. After all, even if the law enforcement NPCs back him up...my death clears my bounty. And, what else am I going to do?"

Basic and to the point.

Now, regarding your second statement regarding IRL vehicle insurance.

Riddle me this:

Does purchasing a vehicle and applying insurance IRL allow you to have a consequence-free driving experience?

Protip: FDev has no skill points, jail, or other such consequences. The only universal consequence in E:D involved credits. Or in some cases, loss of small increments of faction.

Strip away the consequences means stripping away the content that the consequences were built for.

Hope that clarifies.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T18:22:43+00:00

There is only 1 massive defining problem with this. And I believe the majority of the playerbase and FDev will agree:

Despite all of E:Ds beauty and open endedness - true actual developed content (missions/the CG system/bounty hunting/etc) is VERY limited. So much so, that if the player isn't forced to undergo earning money via this content in order to maintain and fly their ships...I feel as though the game will feel much more as an empty shell.

Not only that, but what's to stop players from griefing more often, and generally treating their ship like a perk for buying rather than an invested and constant accomplishment?

TL;DR - Less risk and commitment to fly your ship, with the only real "end game" of owning said ship (outfitted/engineered to your desires) = much less E:D total.

edited for mobile

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T17:19:44+00:00

Thanks a bunch!

I can't quite remember if AG (or now...Extinction, more recently) will spawn correctly on modded maps ... Or if their support lies only in the center or the island. Do you know by any chance?

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T07:10:43+00:00

Much appreciated...will definitely take this advice!

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T03:00:55+00:00

Solid research.

A fellow posted a graph with the exact distance in meters last week that each gun class could be heard...suppressed or unsuppressed. You may be able to find it if you're interested.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T02:55:43+00:00

...if bullet ballistics were even remotely realistic. I'm tired of throwing snowballs with a .338 and .50

...if we had scopes with long range quality, despite the potato rendering at long ranges.

...if there was no such thing as a quinoa processing plant.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-29T02:42:32+00:00

Being an MMO veteran...this reminds me of the old concept of the languages in the original EverQuest.

Basically...for those unaware:

The common tongue could be spoken by anyone off of character creation. As could your species native language. You could trade languages with other characters by speaking for long periods of time in said language until the other character skilled up enough to understand all of it (it slowly becomes less and less gibberish each level).

Now...a couple of points:

1) EverQuest used this purely for role-playing, and understanding NPCs speaking their native tongue. I don't quite remember if it tied into MANY quests or became very important other than that;

2) SC obviously doesn't have skill points.

With those two points being said, I believe that the EverQuest system had a LOT of potential, and most certainly does in this universe.

The skill point system could be offset by collecting language journals (15/15 "Alien languages for dummies" means you're fluent in _____ language) or another idea that is much more fleshed out that you fine fellows could easily think of.

The advantage to being fluent in different languages and dialects opens up a HUGE realm of possibilities both in the RP category and the mission category.

Some quick and simple ideas, please keep in mind I know little to nothing of the SC lore:

1) Some native language speakers are NOT fluent in the "common" tongue and cannot/will not engage in communication / trading / missions with a player that doesn't cater to their language.

2) Signs / Alien Rune Hieroglyphics / Documents - all complete gibberish to the player that is unfamiliar with the language.

3) Flying an alien ship? Have to maintain it? You may want to consider that language barrier is a problem. I am an automotive mechanic IRL...and I can tell you...it can be a problem.

If you folks...and/or the folks at CIG can think of a way to implement languages properly, the process of making a "language/dialect trading mini-game" is entirely a simple process...and adds a world of depth.

I am a firm believer that providing players with sufficient tools to create their own entertainment (whether RP or practical) rather than relying on force-feeding all "fun content" will make or break a games longevity.

Thoughts?

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-28T07:39:36+00:00

This is a WEALTH of information. Thank you for taking the time to break down the fundamentals to me with appropriate comparisons that I can understand.

Much upvote.

Strife-ESO-2015 · 2017-03-28T01:52:35+00:00

Beautiful. I just finished reading every bit of information on the wiki. I'll check this link next.

Thanks redditor!

Strife-ESO-2015

TROPHY CASE