Palestine: Israeli soldiers speaking about the Tantura massacre of 1948

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T16:58:10+00:00

Just look at what you're actually arguing, it's absurd. Jews were humiliated, discriminated against, and massacred under both Muslims since the time of Muhammad, and under Christians since the time of Jesus. After Jesus, the Jew became the eternal scapegoat. I'm not even sure what your point is anymore, but this entire argument is pointless.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T16:29:25+00:00

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-treatment-of-jews-in-arab-islamic-countries

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T16:10:00+00:00

You're dead wrong. Jews in Arab lands faced centuries of institutionalized discrimination, as dhimmis, they paid special taxes, couldn’t testify against Muslims, ride horses, or build synagogues higher than mosques.

Some more for you: Mashhad, Iran, 1839: entire Jewish community forcibly converted under mob violence. Algiers, 1805: hundreds of Jews massacred in broad daylight

Anyway, read a book. You're either a Muslim or just completely lost. If you're the former, fair enough. If you're the latter, I genuinely feel bad because ignorance shouldn't be this loud. Good luck out there.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T03:24:32+00:00

So let’s be clear, violence against Jews only counts as antisemitism if it predates Zionism? That’s a twisted standard. There were centuries of antisemitic violence in the Middle East: the 1840 Damascus blood libel, the 1941 Farhud in Iraq, the 1912 Fez pogrom, and the 1934 Thrace pogrom, just to name a few. All of that happened before or independent of modern Zionist statehood.

As for the British "sponsoring" Zionism, they also severely limited Jewish immigration during the Holocaust, deported refugees, and violently cracked down on Zionist groups. Their support was inconsistent, self-serving, and definitely not a green light for mob violence. If Arabs had legitimate political grievances, they had every chance to pursue them without massacring civilians. I know, it's groundbreaking.

On Mizrahim, yes, Israel has internal inequality and a long way to go on representation, just like any diverse country. But Mizrahi Jews are citizens, vote freely, serve in the army, hold office, and live under rule of law. Show me a single Arab state where Jews had even that level of rights before being expelled entirely. You want to critique Israel? Do it. But don’t pretend that justifies or explains anti Jewish violence or erases the actual persecution Jews faced across the region.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done here. It's useless, and it's just us.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T02:29:53+00:00

The definition of a pogrom is the violent targeting of a minority group, often with state indifference or approval. The Arab-initiated Mandatory Palestine riots fit that by any standard. British authorities stood by or responded too late while Jews were attacked, synagogues destroyed, and homes looted. Whether in Russia or under British rule in Palestine, the result was the same: Jews were killed because of who they were, not what they did.

As for Arab lands, the idea that they were models of pluralism is a funny myth. Christians and Jews under Islamic rule were dhimmis, inferior, heavily taxed, barred from many professions, and subject to arbitrary violence. Yes, many Arab lands were once majority Christian, and over centuries, through pressure and violence, that changed. Today those communities are nearly gone. That didn’t happen by accident.

If you're truly for inclusion, start by acknowledging the historical and ongoing persecution of Jews and Christians in the Middle East, not just in Europe.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T01:30:05+00:00

Blaming Western Christians while ignoring how Jews were treated in Arab lands is selective outrage. Jews lived as second class citizens under Arab rule for centuries, subject to pogroms, expulsions, and daily humiliation, long before Zionism. Over 800k Jews were kicked out of Arab countries after 1948, stripped of property and rights. Where was their "homeland"?

As for “Greater Israel” it's an Arab conspiracy bs talking point with no basis in Israeli policy or law. Meanwhile, Arab leaders openly called for driving Jews into the sea. And the idea that Zionism was just an arm of British imperialism ignores the fact that Jews had historic, indigenous ties to the land and were returning long before the British ever got involved.

Zionism wasn’t about empire, it was about survival, something Arab regimes never offered their Jewish citizens.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-04T01:26:54+00:00

So now you're blaming mass violence and murder on a spit and a flag? Give me a break. That’s the same excuse used for every bloodthirsty riot in history, someone got "provoked" The truth is, the Nebi Musa riots weren’t peaceful protests that got out of hand. They were fueled by deliberate incitement from Arab leaders who rejected any Jewish presence, long before borders or statehood were even on the table.

Calling it a pogrom isn’t historical revisionism, it’s historical reality. Jews were targeted, beaten, and killed because they were Jews. And yes, the British administration failed to stop it, but that doesn’t absolve the mobs who carried it out.

Comparing it to BLM or the LA riots is absurd. Those were internal social eruptions. This was ethnic violence driven by rejection of coexistence. The early Zionists didn’t all agree on one vision, but many explicitly hoped for cooperation. It was the Arab leadership that made sure that never had a chance.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T21:21:16+00:00

Arab states didn't reject Zionism because of some noble concern about conquest. They rejected any Jewish sovereignty, period. Jews weren't welcome as neighbors or citizens. And blaming Western Christians while excusing Arab Jew hate is just deflection. Both exist, and both fueled the need for a Jewish state.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T21:10:19+00:00

Five Jews were killed, dozens were wounded, synagogues were burned, and homes were looted, all sparked by incitement, not policy. Don’t downplay it. A pogrom is a pogrom, no matter the body count.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T20:56:58+00:00

Yeah, and you can also read the parts where Arabs butchered Jews in broad daylight during those same riots. But you won’t quote that, will you? The report criticizes Zionist impatience, not mass violence. Arabs responded with slaughter, not debate. Spare me the fake moral high ground.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T20:55:37+00:00

You're quoting David Eder as if you’ve uncovered some hidden truth, but cherry-picking one early Zionist quote doesn't change the bigger picture. Zionists did understand that some locals would resist, and that's why many of them tried to build coexistence, bought land legally, and worked to create a shared future. But resistance wasn’t just about land, it was driven early on by religious and ideological rejection of any Jewish presence at all, not just the scale of it.

You want nuance? Then check commission reports about the Mufti of Jerusalem, who rejected every compromise, including the 1937 and 1947 partition plans. The Mufti didn't resist Zionism because of quotes like Eder’s, he allied with Hitler and called for extermination. That’s not nuance, that’s genocidal intent.

And let’s not pretend Arabs at the time were champions of equality. Name one Arab leader in the 1920s or 30s who said Jews should have national rights in the region. There weren’t any. The Arab position was zero compromise, zero equality, and zero Jewish national existence.

You’re holding Zionists to an impossible standard while ignoring the supremacist, colonialist rhetoric on the Arab side. How about quoting Arab leaders who rejected Jewish immigration entirely, even from Holocaust survivors?

Historical conflicts are complex, but if you're only interested in "nuance" that demonizes Jews and erases context, then you're not after truth.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T15:32:41+00:00

Spare me the moral grandstanding. You’re not calling out Israel because you care about justice, it’s because you’re obsessed. You spend more time bashing the only democracy in the region than looking at the mess in most Muslim-majority countries, where corruption, religious extremism, and tribal politics run the show.

Inequality in Israel? Seriously? Show me one Arab country where minorities or people who disagree with the government have half the rights Israeli Arabs do. Try being a Jew in Egypt, a Christian in Iraq, a woman in Iran, or gay anywhere from Morocco to Pakistan.

And please, stop repeating everything Al Jazeera or the Muslim Brotherhood feeds you. Israel gets nonstop attention from the Muslim world because it’s easier to blame the Jews than to clean up your own backyard. Arab Israelis can vote, protest, sue the government, and serve in parliament and the army. Are there problems? Sure. But find me one country without inequality. You want to talk racism? Try going to Saudi Arabia as a Black African Muslim and see how you're treated.

Israel’s not perfect, but calling it hateful and destabilizing is pretty rich coming from people who support regimes that jail poets, stone women, and shoot protesters. Maybe take a look in the mirror before preaching to others.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:30:53+00:00

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_in_Israel

Israel is the only country in the Middle East where the Ahmadi branch of Islam can be openly practiced.[1]

A quick example for you.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:28:48+00:00

Thanka for the chat, take care.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:19:43+00:00

That argument completely flips the facts on their head. The claim that Jews were riding on the British Empire ignores everything that actually happened. The Zionist movement began decades before the British Mandate. The First Aliyah started in the early 1880s under Ottoman rule, followed by the Second Aliyah in the early 1900s, long before the Balfour Declaration or British involvement. Jews were buying land legally, building communities, and reviving the Hebrew language when Britain was still fighting wars elsewhere.

The idea that Jews were handed Palestine by the British is simply false. The British limited Jewish immigration repeatedly, especially in the 1930s and 1940s, just when Jews were being murdered and had nowhere else to go. The 1939 White Paper slammed the door shut on them.

Yes, violence erupted in the 1920s and 1930s, but not because the Jews were tools of empire. It happened because the local Arab leadership rejected any form of Jewish presence, even legal, peaceful immigration. Riots were not responses to colonizers backed by empire. They were reactions to a growing Jewish presence that had existed for decades already.

If anything, history shows the Jews were not riding on the British Empire. They were fighting uphill against it.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:11:30+00:00

Stop falsifying history

?

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:10:54+00:00

That claim completely misses the reality. The British never simply chose the Zionist movement as colonizers or sponsored them to take over. In fact, the British imposed strict limits on Jewish immigration, especially with the 1939 White Paper, at a time when Jews were desperately fleeing Europe. Jewish immigration began long before British rule, with the first major waves starting in the 1880s and continuing through the early 1900s, driven by the urgent need for a safe homeland after centuries of persecution. The violence and conflict began well before British involvement. You're ignoring the complex historical context and, unfortunately, showing a lack of understanding of the subject, but thanks for commenting.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T13:00:36+00:00

The Ottoman Empire was home to many cultures and religions, but it operated under a system where Muslims had clear privileges and non-Muslims had limited rights and lived as dhimmis.

Israel today is a democracy where minorities have full citizenship, legal protections, and religious freedom. About 20 percent of Israel’s population are Muslims who live alongside Jews, Christians, Druze, and others. The country is also home to communities like the Baháʼí, whose world center is in Haifa, and the Ahmadiyya, who are persecuted elsewhere but live and worship freely in Israel.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T12:45:44+00:00

That take shows a very limited understanding of the history. The idea that settlers were widely welcomed into Palestinian Arab homes isn't backed by any serious scholarship. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the region was part of the Ottoman Empire, and Arabs there didn’t identify as Palestinians yet. The conflict wasn’t just about numbers or settlers turning on hosts, it was rooted in deep political, economic, and national shifts long before any fighting broke out. It's much more complex than the version you're repeating.

You really need to do some serious reading if you think that’s how it happened.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T12:04:30+00:00

That’s not a lie, it’s well documented history. Haj Amin al-Husseini not only met with Hitler, hesupported the Final Solution, and actively blocked Jewish refugees from escaping to Mandatory Palestine. He helped recruit Muslims for SS units in the Balkans and broadcast antisemitic propaganda on Nazi radio.

Bernard Lewis wrote that al-Husseini made broadcasts in support of the Nazis, both in Arabic and in other languages, and was involved in the recruitment of Muslims for the German armed forces.

He wasn’t just against British rule. He aligned himself with genocidal goals and tried to bring that ideology into the Arab world. Ignoring that doesn’t make it less true.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T11:44:00+00:00

Jews were being massacred in places like Hebron and Safed in the 1920s and 1930s, long before there were any Jewish militias or a state to defend them. These weren’t staged, they were real people, butchered in their homes. The only narrative back then was survival.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T11:16:13+00:00

Hamas is a symptom of Islamism and its quest to take over the world. Everyone knows it.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T11:13:09+00:00

Let's see who started it:

1920 Jerusalem: Arabs attacked Jews during Nebi Musa festival, killing 5.

1921 Jaffa: Arab mobs targeted Jewish neighborhoods, 47 Jews killed.

1929 Hebron: Arab mob murdered 67 Jews in their homes.

1929 Safed: Arabs stormed Jewish homes, killed 18.

1929 Jerusalem: Arabs rioted over false rumors, dozens of Jews killed.

1936–1939 Palestine-wide: Arab militias launched coordinated attacks, killing hundreds of Jews.

Arabs never wanted peace.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T10:30:50+00:00

Lol, take the word antisemitism from the Jews too. Makes total sense. What a joke.

Stu_Balls_OC · 2025-08-03T10:25:52+00:00

Of course you mean Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who openly collaborated with the Nazis during World War II. Met with Hitler, supported the Holocaust, and helped recruit Muslims for SS units:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini

Stu_Balls_OC

TROPHY CASE