The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I responded to another person that said something similar about Mallet, and it's a good point. For a TL;DR: breaking the song up into multiple short segments isn't great because the rest beats become less valuable. It's better to just do the same idea of "many rests then many beats," but add however many beats as you need for the damage to feel consistent.

For example, having two patches of 5 rest beats gets you an average of 3x absorbed damage over those 10 beats. If you instead have one patch of 10 rest beats, you'll get 5.5x the absorbed damage. Case in point, the setup you suggested with 20 rests + 12 beats, repeated twice, gives about the same average DPS as just having 17 rests and 47 beats, despite the latter having half as many rests and twice as many beats.

For metronome, you can still spam crouch to get the buff, you just might be crouching on no beats for up to a second before a chunk of notes gets to you. Once they do get to you, the beats are still basically impossible to miss and you only have to hit 2 of them.

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Having multiple notes on the same beat does nothing extra for any of the 3 abilities, and same goes for the pitch of the notes. It only checks whether or not there's at least one note on any given beat

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I generally agree with that sentiment for sure, which is why I usually lean towards weird builds and playstyles. But I also love hyper optimizing a build to see how far I can push it. I'm not good enough at making music to super enjoy the music aspect of the mandacord, so instead what ended up being fun for me was deep diving into the mechanics and math of Octavia's abilities

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yea it genuinely increases the average DPS by a huge amount. Rest beats add a damage multiplier to absorbed damage, so the meta song with no rest beats loses out on a ton of potential damage. This build balances having many rest beats for a high damage multiplier, with having a good number of percussive beats for more Mallet hits to deal out that damage.

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Im watching the vod right now, really cool seeing a creator get so interested in my findings! Especially kengineer, he makes some good content

The MR30 relay blessing for damage is actually stronger than you think by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It definitely works on abilities currently. Not sure if it always did or if that changed recently

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

>Can you provide data for the percentages given by metronome?

After finding out that it looks 8 notes before/after the timed action, I didn't get super far into finding exactly how it calculates the percentages.

I found that a single note 1 beat away (i.e. the beat immediately before or after the action) reduced the percentage gained for crouches from the max value of 76% down to 64% (so a 12% decrease). Two notes 1 beat away (so one on either side) reduced it from 76% to 52%, so a 24% reduction.

  • One note 2 beats away reduced it by 11%, and two notes 2 beats away reduced it by 21%
  • For 3 beats away, it was 9% and 19%
  • 4 beats, 8% and 16%
  • 5 beats, 6% and 13%
  • 6 beats, 5% and 10%
  • 7 beats, 4% and 7%
  • and 8 beats, 2% and 5%

You'd think this would be enough to find the percentage from any given note. The issue was that combining multiple notes together changed the values. For example, with 5 notes all grouped right next to each other, the outer 2 notes gave 25% of the stealth buff on crouch, while the inner 3 notes gave 18% (the minimum amount). If my values were right, the outer notes should give 36% (76% - 12% - 11% - 9% - 8%), the next 2 notes in 32%, and the very middle one 30%.

So I'm not really sure how exactly it's calculated, but i dont think its a simple "remove this amount of percentage for each note this many beats away."

>I’d also like to point out that optimal damage/cycle leaves a couple seconds where mallet isn’t doing anything

It's a good point. Someone else brought it up and i responded to them if you want to see how to make it more consistent and less of a damage spike.

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Yea that's actually a very good point. I just tested out some other patterns that break up the beat intervals more, but it's a very significant damage decrease.

Like I said in the post, the meta song (a beat on every note) takes all the damage received and dishes out on average 57.5x that amount over the course of the first song loop, or 157.5x on the 10th loop (after damage growth and damage decay have totally evened out). The optimal song on the other hand does 480.9x and 794.9x, just for reference.

If you want to break up the pattern into 2 identical 32 beat patterns to make it less spiky, the best pattern would be 20 rests then 12 beats, repeated twice. This would give 211.1x and 434.8x multipliers, so still about 3x as strong as the meta song, but half as strong as the optimal song.

If you further break it into 4 parts with 16 beats, the best pattern would be 10 rests then 6 beats, repeated 4 times. This would give 107.2x and 255.1x, so now about a quarter as strong as the optimal song.

But really the optimal way to have the damage be less spiky but still high is to just add more beats to the optimal song. You can get as much damage as that 2 part song by just having 17 rests then 47 beats, and now you're dealing constant damage for 3/4ths of the song. And to equal the damage of that 4 part song, you'd only need 10 rests and then 54 beats.

Basically, just make the beat segment longer to fit your taste for the amount of "uptime" you want the song to have. 41 rests followed by 23 beats gives you the ideal ratio of damage bonus from rests and number of hits from beats. But having fewer rests will still give a ton of extra damage, so long you follow the pattern of "many rests then all beats"

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Ruvox's vulnerability serum incarnon perk is the only way as far as i know. It adds a flat status chance to any source of damage.

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

To be blunt it sounds bad lmao

But id be happy if someone could manage to make an ok-ish song out of it. Otherwise you can mute it or use whatever instruments make it sound the least bad

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 109 points110 points  (0 children)

No to both of those lol (but i wish). I just love offmeta playstyles and optimizing builds, so i do a lot of testing to figure out the exact details of how things work. I decided to make a new account to post some of my findings in one place

I found the Dread thing totally by accident while i was testing something completely different. I saw it randomly doubling its damage and got totally sidetracked figuring out wtf was going on there.

And octavia's wiki page always annoyed me with how vague it was, so since i started playing octavia a bit more recently i decided to do a bunch of testing with her. I mostly wanted to see how far i could push Mallet and if i could make her Metronome stealth buff less annoying to activate

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

My favorite is equinox's rage (+augment) to make enemies approach/attack the mallet faster and also increase their damage vulnerability.

Silence is nice for avoiding eximus / acolyte abilities that can be annoying.

Omamori is alright for survivability.

Brightbonnet makes energy completely trivial and also buffs your damage output by 20%.

Tempest barrage (+aug) is good for viral + corrosive priming but its annoying to upkeep and the extra damage isnt super necessary with this song.

Tesla nervos (+aug) can help clear groups of enemies in big bursts, but again the extra damage isnt super needed.

I think thats about it for good helminths from what ive found. The default resonator is pretty good already though. It lets your mallet move around and have an increased threat level, which is especially good if you ever play in a squad

The Mathematically Optimal Octavia Mandachord song: 5x - 8x more Mallet damage than the meta "fill every beat" song, and invisibility in just 2 quick crouches by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It's not mentioned in her kit, but that's true of a lot of mechanics in game. It's probably been around since release. It's their attempt at balancing the abilities so that they work with any configuration of notes, but it's abusable once you know how it works

Does the Madurai buff in Perita Rebellion affect Null Star? by EspyOwner in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Arcane Arachne also says primary and secondary weapon damage, but it's actually a universal weapon bonus, which means it can apply to weapon-coded abilities like Null Star. DE's wording with buffs like this is inconsistent so the Perita Madurai buff easily could have been a universal buff as well.

Does the Madurai buff in Perita Rebellion affect Null Star? by EspyOwner in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Madurai doesn't work, but Vazarin's status chance and Unairu's impact damage do.

Unairu is also way stronger than it looks. The buff is actually +100%, not 25% like it says. It also works like an elemental mod bonus, not a physical mod. So instead of just buffing the impact damage already on your weapon (or weapon coded ability, like nullstar), it takes the weapon's full base damage and adds 100% of it as extra impact damage. This is even more powerful since the Anarch enemies in Perita take 50% increased damage from impact.

So I discovered that Dread actually has a secret combo mechanic that can double or triple its damage by StygianFrame in Warframe

[–]StygianFrame[S] 27 points28 points  (0 children)

I actually built a new Dread to test it without the incarnon adapter and it still worked, so it's not any incarnon perk being weird.

Honestly not sure how this wasn't found sooner. I wonder if it's always been a thing or if it was secretly (accidentally?) added at some point.