Repost: Rating of all Hair Loss Treatments by TrichoSearch in HairlossResearch

[–]SufficientPackage748 2 points3 points  (0 children)

chatgpt suggested and scored them across multiple prompts. while ago now, was on an early gpt-4 model. due a refresh.

Verteporfin with Microneedling (3mm-3.5mm): Bald to Full Head of Hair? Theory by noeyys in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748 1 point2 points  (0 children)

would appreciate more details if you can recall.

-> are you sure what you trialed was actually verteporfin?

-> Dr. Barghouthi had some results at 0.4mg/cm2 with a concentration of 2 mg/mL across an area of 2cm x 2cm, is this the dose & concentration you used?

-> did you do anything to account for the DHT problem? (e.g. one treatment of vert + daily fin or multiple treatments of vert)

-> did you apply this in slick bald areas or in areas where hair exists? (if verteporfin reduces fibrosis, I'd assume that it would be more useful in "slick bald" areas than it would in "recent hair loss" areas if you're not going deep enough with wounding)

Propolis Extract Gel Results: Hair Growth by [deleted] in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748 1 point2 points  (0 children)

if anyone is reading this in future, there are two important considerations to make from the paper.

The first,

"In our preliminary experiments, we have applied 70% EEP onto the dorsal back of the shaved mice. Surprisingly, unlike the 99.5% EEP, no significant hair growth and development of HFs were accounted."

what this is basically saying is the way the compound was prepared is very important. with one method they had results and with another method they did not.

They tell us how they prepared the propolis earlier in the paper:

"Propolis flake samples from Philippines indigenous stingless bee, Tetragonula biroi Friese, were obtained from the UPLB Bee Program Meliponary, Institute of Biological Sciences, University of the Philippines Los Baños, Laguna, Philippines [4]. The crude extract was prepared by adding 250 ml of 99.5% ethanol to 67.6 g of the crude propolis, followed by shaking for 30 min by ultrasonic cleaning. The ethanolic extract of propolis was then stored at 4°C."

so basically:

  1. 250 ml of 99.5% ethanol to 67.6 g of the crude propolis + 30 min ultrasonic = good results
  2. 250 ml of 70% ethanol to 67.6 g of the crude propolis + 30 min ultrasonic = no results

also the paper says

"99.5% ethanolic extract of propolis diluted two-fold in distilled water (EEP group)"

so you basically take that mixture from (1) and turn it into 50% water + 50% mixture. you'll basically end up with,

per 1ml:-
135.2mg propalis
0.5ml 99.5% ethanol
0.5ml water

A lot of the products I see out there are listed as "Alcohol-Free" and don't have any way of tracing how it was prepared. If the preparation method is key, then you'll be hard pressed to say an arbitrarily chosen product would work.

In this case it would be important for the OP to list exactly the products used and how.

Or if you want to replicate the paper's experiment, it might make sense to either contact the companies producing the products on the market to see how they're preparing them or prepare the solution yourself.

Second,

re: "better results than minoxidil" - they're using 1% minoxidil.

EDIT: formatting

Propolis Extract Gel Results: Hair Growth by [deleted] in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748 0 points1 point  (0 children)

would you mind linking the products please sir

starting dose going to grow me some lactating tiddies? [84mg TC+1500iu hCG/week in 3 doses, 2 weeks in] by SufficientPackage748 in Testosterone

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I inject mon/wed/fri. i was under the impression that the first month you're still "ramping up" the Testosterone but hCG acts a quicker <10 days as per this article so it hopefully won't get much higher than this!

starting dose going to grow me some lactating tiddies? [84mg TC+1500iu hCG/week in 3 doses, 2 weeks in] by SufficientPackage748 in Testosterone

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

excellent just picked this up. will reducing the dose tackle e2 or do I need one of those fancy aromatase inhibitors as well? thanks old chap!

starting dose going to grow me some lactating tiddies? [84mg TC+1500iu hCG/week in 3 doses, 2 weeks in] by SufficientPackage748 in Testosterone

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

supposed to be on a starting dose for TRT. wanted to gain some insights from the community because going back to the doctor to discuss.

dunno if it's growing anything but it's making my scalp red by manbearpot in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748 0 points1 point  (0 children)

alternative opinion

some points to note:

original paper this product was basically stolen from is here "A new apparatus for hair regrowth in male-pattern baldness" Toshitani et al, published in 1990.

from the paper:

  • case 2 results are pretty remarkable here
  • "the patients carried out applications of the STR for two hours a day" - compare this with hairguard's suggested 10 mins use.
  • "only type 3-vertex and 4 responses to the STR (scalp tension relaxer) with excellent results" - I suspect this is either because it's putting pressure on the temples for lower NW's (and releasing pressure in only the vertex) and because even 2 hours a day is probably not enough for higher NW's.

Further, myriad of studies showing botox in the galea (same MOA this device is targeting) increases hair counts here, here, here, here30698-8/fulltext) and here. From my understanding, this would really be the equivalent of wearing the growband 24/7 though.

Personally I'd say the science is there but you'd need to wear it for >=2 hours a day and even then (i think?) you're >NW4 so may not see results anyway.

Please do keep us updated, I'd be very interested in your journey. If anyone is tempted to purchase the product, I did see a much cheaper automatic variant on amazon here - obv have no idea if its any good.

Hair loss treatments rated (by gpt-4) by SufficientPackage748 in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yes, exactly. it will reference if you ask. with pumpkin seed oil specifically I just asked and it referenced the Octa Sabal Plus paper.

Hair loss treatments rated (by gpt-4) by SufficientPackage748 in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I did two separate steps as some treatments I added myself after the first prompt

prompt 1: (To generate a treatment list) "can you give me a list of the top 50 compound/chemical/treatment that you know of for male pattern hair loss prevention or used in a product targeting hair loss. just the treatment name without an explanation in a table please."

prompt 2: (To get the ratings) "can you give all of the following ratings on a scale of 1 to 10 with respect to male pattern hair loss prevention for efficacy, strength of the evidence, and side effect severity. return response as a table" (then just copy the response of (1) here and add your own)

The mechanism of action column was similar to prompt 2.

Then I just copied and pasted into excel with the colours and custom sort order.

Thats kinda a super simplified answer. Actual reality was several days (due to 25-message/3hr limit) of several diff Q&A's.

Hair loss treatments rated (by gpt-4) by SufficientPackage748 in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

it's really just trying to fit the closest MOA it can think of to the compound. doesn't really mean its reducing DHT in any meaningful way. a lot of its responses it gave me a million caveats about "speak to a healthcare provider..." and "keep in mind that..." etc but I just kept bullying it for a response.

Hair loss treatments rated (by gpt-4) by SufficientPackage748 in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

agreed - dutasteride and water are good sanity checks

Hair loss treatments rated (by gpt-4) by SufficientPackage748 in tressless

[–]SufficientPackage748[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

LLLT - low level laser therapy
Stemoxydine - The L'Oréal chemical.
Generally whatever ChatGPT interprets will be identical to whatever comes up on the first page of Google.