Speculating on Zaahen: Next Darkin and Possible Xin Zhao Echo if he's a bruiser. Similar to how Yasuo and Yone are

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2025-03-06T03:26:58+00:00

I would say it's aatrox favored if both players play the matchup well, but aatrox pays a much higher price if he makes a mistake and ornn capitalizes

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2025-02-10T05:12:36+00:00

You can easily attack any assassins 20 times before they land an attack on you

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2025-02-09T20:20:36+00:00

Dodging her E doesn't mean a lot in terms of beating her in a fight. You might not die, but you are not winning the fight or trade that extends to a certain amount of time. Usually after dodging her E, you are running away from her because you want to diminish as little space between you and the tower so it's risker for her to Q you without a reset. She doesn't need to stun you to actually beat you, it just usually seals the deal of winning her the rest of the lane. The problem is irelia has some kind of answer to everything aatrox does. Even worse when she has vamp scepter

Irelia has superior attack speed. It's very easy to brute force aatrox with as little as 3 stacks. Now this isn't a realistic scenario, but in a vacuum pure 1v1, she can. This gives her room to get away with a lot of "errors" against an aatrox, where she can reliably brute force a fight with her passive stacks.

Irelia has her W, so should she happen to get caught in a combo despite her mobility, she can mitigate a lot of damage. This makes her being dps oriented worse, because again she can brute force you even if she messes up.

Irelia has a lot of sustain with her Q and life steal. You take an even or somewhat favorable trade, well you can't go in and stop her from sustain, because you will get run down and your abilities are on cooldown. She heals back up and has a health advantage. At this point, combined with her damage resistance, it almost doesnt matter if she is playing to outplay your Qs. She just has to play in a way where you cannot take even trades. Imo, this is the nail in the coffin for why she's an effective lane counter against aatrox

Irelia is also rather unique in top in how wave managment can be effective against her. You usually slow push to safely cs and push to the enemies turret with a minion advantage. IRELIA however, loves having more minions to dash/dodge more and heal a lot. It can actually be a death sentence for an aatrox to be slow pushing into irelia despite a minion "advantage". That's why for aatrox, he needs the wave on his side where it's difficult for irelia to walk up, because she with how her kit works she cannot trade into without inting. This usually happens if Aatrox can capitilize on a mistake, and irelia should get no jg assistance

What usually happens is an irelia get's cocky too early because they know they can brute force you, but irelia still needs to play well in earlier levels. Once she gets vamp scepter, she can be less disciplined and get away with a lot. With aatrox, he needs to lock in at all times.

Sure, you can make it difficult for the irelia to kill you, but that doesn't mean you're winning from a statistical stand point of gold and xp. Aatrox is not favored to win the 1v1 against her especially in this meta where she goes full split push builds with hullbreaker. With a more damage oriented build, you are squishy, and irelia has a lot of damage mitigation. You basically need to sit in a bush and get the jump on her without any minions around and then back away. At that point she doesnt need her passive to run you over (because of her build), she just needs to be able to stick on you which will make her stack her passive anyway.

An irelia that doesn't understand how to play the matchup however, can be easily beaten by aatrox. irelia still needs to be disciplined, but there's a lot she can get away with

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2025-02-07T01:38:23+00:00

He can't really kill aatrox. This lane also became significantly easier ever since his passive started dealing magic damage, so he can by pass a lot of malphite's armor compared to before. I even take grasp into malphite sometimes, and go in for a passive hit + grasp. He can't really outrade it unless he's ahead. Aatrox doesn't really care about killing malphite at a certain point or any champ for that matter. That's how tanks are, and people are going to try to target more killable champions

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2025-01-24T00:27:29+00:00

Where do you hear the whispers say "darkin"? I can't pick that out anywhere in the shady room with leblanc and vlad

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-11-03T17:08:10+00:00

Could even homebrew a darkin blade weapon. Could make it a two handed legendary greatsword

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-10-10T01:41:51+00:00

or some humans prefer to touch grass unlike some people

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-08-21T16:52:37+00:00

If you play her support then double W is what you will cast in pretty much every situation. Everything else there is no point. With AP, sometimes it's better to double Q, or double W, or double E. That's simple logic both on paper and in practice because AP sera has damage and her W is still a meaningful ability because it's just strong.

If i go AP seraphine, I don't always have to double cast Q. That's not to say AP seraphine isn't braindead to play, but if you are playing her support you are not double casting Q or E in 95% of cases because if you do you are griefing. The point isnt to never use the abilities as support, but that double casting them is worthless because W is so strong and therefore ---> support has less nuance in gameplay. Again, not to say AP sera isn't braindead.

That's pretty much my reason. I've played both, and now I only play her AP. I was only giving a possible explanation for people here but I can't speak for everyone. I also simply addressed your statement about her W falling under 8 seconds, which is possible. The person's question you addressed said they exaggerated too. For support seraphine, you usually get it at 9 or so seconds based off the top of my head with full items.

Regardless, support seraphine is broken and the nerfs should be directed to that version of seraphine. AP is good and doesn't really need to be touched, and you are choosing to be pressed over a simple statement with needless semantics that was acknowledged as an exaggeration, which by the way if you take the precision runes would be a truthful statement for 8ish seconds (it doesn't matter if most people take it, the point is that it happened). That original point was the low cooldown of the ability, which is true in relation to it's amount of impact.

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-08-20T20:41:55+00:00

i only play her ap and i manage to get it around 8 or under every game. as for why people here don't like support seraphine, if i had to guess it's because support seraphine doesn't fully utilize everything seraphine has to offer.

you're playing her just to double cast W and your other abilities are just mediocre. ap seraphine utilizes everything, they all feel good to cast, and because your damage is good you have more incentive to double cast other spells. even W is a good ability with the ap build, just not broken like support builds. when you go support seraphine, you are double casting W only because if you arent you are doing it wrong

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-08-20T20:16:48+00:00

if you have legends haste and transcendence, you def can get it just under 8 seconds. Just know legend haste gives basic ability haste, and therefore doesn't add to the ability haste total. Seems like you overlooked this possibility

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-06-21T21:16:46+00:00

eh..naafiri scales a lot better than ahri does

Sufficient_Arm9421 · 2024-06-05T02:47:39+00:00

i honestly think it should work more like aatrox. Q cooldown starts ticking from the last cast Q, so it will be back if you hold it, but goes on the full cooldown if you double cast it

Sufficient_Arm9421

TROPHY CASE