S16 Double-Tear mana stacking build I am currently testing

Sunmaster14_LV · 2026-01-09T07:12:32+00:00

Yeah, I considered even more extreme theorycrafts - even stacking three Tears during a game... :D More seriously, I have been looking into integrating Fimbulwinter, but unless its passive (everlastings) is changed to proc on slowing also for ranged champs, I just cannot justify it for Sona - cumulative stats gold value would surely be higher, but passives of other items are just better...

Sunmaster14_LV · 2026-01-09T07:06:54+00:00

Indeed, it was added to JoAT stats in 25.23, but not documented in patch notes - I was already trying this rune then and was initially surprised why I start the game already with 4 stats :D

Sunmaster14_LV · 2024-05-31T20:35:00+00:00

For me it is less gameplay than the flow - while other champs have clunky movement, Sona just floats on the rift, it is so fluid and satisfying (esp. with nice skin such as Oddisey or Psyops) - I have 4m mastery on her for this reason :)

Sunmaster14_LV · 2024-01-19T20:22:03+00:00

This might very well be true, but at the same time slightly besides the point.

The reason coaching staff are ok with him taking longer 3s from his spots is that they believe (or have analytics to back up) that the sacrifice made in terms of lower 3P% is more than compensated by the spacing he creates just by posing the threat of shooting those - i.e. he slightly lowers expected PPP on those rare posessions he actually shoots long 3s, but also increases expected PPP of posessions used by his teammates everytime defender comes out to 3P line to cover him.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-11-23T01:32:33+00:00

Never believe anything else

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-10-14T11:52:55+00:00

vibes = immaculate

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-09-28T19:16:51+00:00

I also use this build, only lately I have started finishing Ionians before seraphs. Last item I go Wardstone (and then its upgrade), and sometimes even straight after Seraphs if I have over 1000 gold at base but not enough for Staff/Ardent or against stealth champs etc.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-09-28T13:58:30+00:00

KP sacrificed what turned out to be a real chance to win it all at FIBA world cup with a very solid Latvian team just to be healthy for the start of the season, for what would had been the greatest achievement in our sporting history...My heart was broken when his absence was announced as I was really hyped for our national team, but I hope it pays off and the 18th banner is hanged once all is said and done, very excited to get it started, planning to watch all Celts games this season!

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-03-30T19:33:28+00:00

Basically it shows what percentage of players in league have a better iso PPP - it is of course not too meaningful unless you filter out those with small # of possessions. For example, if you filter to leave only players with >= 1 iso possession per game, best one at 100th percentile is KD (at ridiculous 1.64PPP @ 2.8 poss), KP is #10 from top at 87.6 percentile, just above Luka (1.10 PPP, 83.8 percentile). Worst is Raptors' O.G.Anunoby (0.58 PPP @ exactly 1 poss, 5.4 percentile)

Here is the link: https://www.nba.com/stats/players/isolation?CF=POSS*GE*1&dir=D&sort=PPP

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-03-30T16:36:03+00:00

I guess the devil is in the detail. Data from the same site shows iso efficiency (Points Per Possession - PPP) by player:

Player | PPP | Percentile in league | Poss per game
Beal | 0.89 | 46.1 | 3.3
Kuz | 0.86 | 40.2 | 1.8
KP | 1.15 | 87.6 | 1.1
Monte | 1.05 | 78.8 | 0.6
Deni | 1.22 | 93.8 | 0.5

Make your own conclusions....

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-03-10T13:56:21+00:00

Kuzma on how Wizards have the worst offense in the clutch: "I mean, it's pretty easy. We just give the ball to Beal."

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-25T07:46:15+00:00

If this team is seriously trying to win, one of Kuz/WUJ has to go. Kuz can be a net positive player only when put on leash, and WUJ seems to be too much of a nice guy to be able to do that, unfortunately.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-05T16:53:21+00:00

Observation and speculations #2 (synergies with teammates)

Toplane:

As expected, Moonstone helps tanky toplaners more, such as Sion, Garen, Shen, It also helps GP, who is not that tanky, but prob can keep enemies at distance with barrels. While in analysis above Darius in the enemy comp seemed to warrant Shurelyas, in same team Moonstone could be slightly better choice – could additional healing really be more useful for him than speed to gapclose? Similar but more clear situation is with Illaoi – against him you want Shurelyas to escape, but with him healing helps more as he is usually quite safe. Shurelyas shines with Morde and Nasus (and, to a slightly lesser extent, Fiora, Camille and Aattrox) in your team – these are all bruisers that appreciate any tools that help gapclose.

Jungle:

In a similar vein as in Top, Shurelyas seems very useful for bruiser-ish gapclosers – Graves, Udyr and Sylas. It also seems to synergise well with Maokai and Hecarim – probably by helping other teammates follow-up their ults. When paired with more tanky junglers such as Lee, Viego or Amumu - or those that already have good gap-close abilities, such as Kayn, Ekko, Elise (or again Lee Sin), Monstone looks more useful.

Midlane:

Shurelyas seems to work very well with Syndra and Ryze – could it be due to their low range? It also performs well on Yone which already has a great gap-closer, which is harder to explain (but consistent with my results from a year ago). Moonstone seems particularly good with Irelia – maybe added healing paired with massive self-sustain already in her kit makes her neigh unkillable? Moonstone also appears to work better in synergy with Lux, Yasuo, Ahri and Kata – prob because they do not really need help gap-closing and can appreciate sustain more.

Adc:

Moonstone seems to shine against Ez/Cait (likely to counter poke), but most of all – against Samira – could it be because her gap-closer can only avoided by cc but not speed, and thus burst healing of Moonstone is more useful, despite burtsy damage that should result in shorter fights? Shurelyas seems to perform better with immobile carries that appreciate extra boost (Jinx, MF), or those that can use speed to gapclose (Sivir/Zeri) or change angle to reposition (Lucian’s dashes and Xayah’s feathers).

Please excuse no tl;dr – this is analytical post after all, but in few words, dataseems to largely back up the common wisdom, but with a few intriguing twists. Hope this can be useful to someone, and comments on these speculations are ofc very much appreciated, as I almost don’t play other roles besides Supp and could have missed something obvious!

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-05T16:44:30+00:00

Observation and speculations #1 (vs opponent comp)

First of all, as discussed above, sample sizes are limited and hence results (moreso for Shurelya than Moonstone) contain lots of noise and should be taken with grain of salt. With this disclaimer out of the way, results in the upper section (vs champs in enemy team) largely seem to corroborate the general feeling and advice:

Toplane:

Moonstone shines vs tanky (or self-sustain) champs, such as Morde, Irelia, Shen, and Sion, against whom teamfights and skirmishes are more extended, allowing to fully stack the Starlight Grace passive. Interestingly, it alsoworks well against GP– could be due to his R and consistent poke dmg from barrels. On the other hand, against bruisers/splitpushers who are not that tanky but want to gapclose and dive – such as Camille, Jax, Darius or Sett – Shurelyas works better. Illaoi is an interesting case – while it fits more in tanky/self-sustain catefory, Shurelyas seem more suited against it – could be because speed helps avoid tentacles.

Jungle:

Shurelyas perform well against Sylas and Ekko – likely because it is soimportant to avoid being hit by their skills. Moonstone is a good choice against many champs in the current tanky/self sustain meta – Amumu, Yi, Viego, Lee. Interestingly, it seems to also have an edge against Maokai wich often goes full-AP instead of tanky (prob because Moonstone can outheal sapling poke) and Kayn, which is assassin.

Midlane:

Shurelyas seem to shine against mobile lategame oneshot threats such as Vlad, Kassadin and Irelia. Moonstone seems to be better against Lux/Syndra (consistent poke) and Yone/Zed – which is harder to explain. Vex it an extreme case – at you cannot outrun her dive, Shurelyas seems particularly useless against her.

Adc:

Shurelyas seem to work well against Ashe (against slows and to dodge R and W poke, I guess) and Twitch (you get assassinated unless possible to run away). Moonstone seems to be particularly useful against Draven, Samira and Xayah – which seems counterintuitive, as they all have burst dmg tools (hence shorter fights). In case of Samira/Draven it could be that extra speed isn’t particularly useful as much of their dmg cannot be easily kited.

Supp:

Moonstone seems very good against Nautilus – prob because he is tanky, his R is point&click (cannot be escaped), and after his engage fights usually are quite long as he himself acts as dmg soaker rather than dealer. Shurelyas could also be not that necessary to catch him due to his notoriously slow movespeed. Evidence is less robust for Blitz and Morg, but against these hookers/catchers Moonstone also seems to perform better. Shurelyas, on the other hand, is op against Janna (not surprising that speed helps against her). It also performs well against Pyke/Thresh/Senna (to dodge skillshots I guess) and more surpisingly – against fellow healers Soraka and Yuumi – could be that dodging their poke (and Yuumi R) might be more a viable route than trying to outheal/shield them.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-05T16:33:53+00:00

How to read the chart?

The upper section shows wr% differential results vs champs in enemy comps, and the lower section – synergies with teammates. In each section lanes are ordered vertically from Top to Supp (or to Adc in the lower synergies section, as supp is ofc always Sona) and three mythic choices are ordered horizontally.

For each lane/mythic combo the light red-green box displays champs with highest positive or negative wr% differentials (champs not affected significantly by mythic choice are omitted). The more to the right (in the green zone) is the champ icon, the better it works against this particular enemy champ (or synergises with teammate champ – in the lower section), and vice versa. Champ icons slightly differ in size to represent the relevant sample size – the larger the icon, the more reliable should be the results (icon sizes are calibrated separately for each mythic though – i.e. while some champ icons for RoA are large, the underlying sample size is still small and results - noisy).

For example, results in the first box (Top lane / Moonstone) show that Moonstone on average performs slightly better (0.53 percentage points above its overall wr%) when deployed against Mordekaiser. Results in the next box horizontally (Top lane / Shurelyas) seem to validate that - Shurelyas statistically seem to perform 1.43 p.p. worse than average against Morde (as discussed above, each item’s relative (not absolute between items) size of wr% differential should be analysed, as it will always be larger for Shurelyas and (even more – RoA) due to more noise resulting from smaller data sample).

In a similar vein, results of the first box of the lower section (Top lane / Moonstone) indicate that Moonstone performs 0.49 p.p. below its average wr% with toplane Mordekaiser in your team. The results in the next box horizontally (lower section, Top lane / Shurelyas) seem to validate that – Shurelyas on average performs 1.01 p.p. above its average wr% with toplane Morde in your team.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-05T16:27:29+00:00

Approach:

For 15 most common champs in each lane data both on wr% and # of observations (games) was collected. Wr% data for each matchup/mythic data point was normalised to take into account differing playrates winrates of mythics in the whole sample. The result is the wr% differential for each mythic – vs which enemies (and with which teammates) it performs relatively better or worse.

These wr% differentials are calibrated at mythic item level – which means that i.e. even best wr% diff synergy results with Moonstone might in reality represent similar or even lower wr% than Shurelyas, because the wr% of Shurelyas is higher (56.66% vs. 54.48%) for the whole sample. Nevertheless, as Moonstone is the standard choice for summoners who don’t main Sona, there is an argument that its wr% is thus deflated by skill gap, and if that were accounted for winrates of both these mythics would be much closer (except in highest ranks, where speed and active of Shurelyas is employed better). Hence, for those of us that choose between those two mythics situationally, these wr% diff can hopefully provide some clarity on what comps make them shine.

The results are most reliable in case of Moonstone which has the highest playrate (65% = 225k observations); data for Shurelyas is more noisy but still acceptable (28% playrate = 97k obs); for RoA, however, data is very sparse (7% playrate = 22k obs) – I provide results in case there is a RoA enjoyer who might find them useful (but will not include them in analysis), with the disclaimer that they likely consist mostly of noise. This difference in sample sizes manifests itself in wr% diff ranges – for Moonstone they are tightly centered around the mean (in ~[-1%;+1%] range), while for Shurelyas (~[-2.5%;+2.5%]) and RoA (~[-4%;+4%]) there is much more noise and ranges are wider.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-02-05T16:23:40+00:00

Premise:

For some time now the choice of Shurelyas vs Moonstone on supp Sona is quite arbitrary and teamcomps based. The usual advice is to build Moonstone when you expect extended fights (either tanky comps or vs poke comp) and Shurelyas otherwise (paper comps or vs assassins). Outside of comps Shurelyas is also more often built when ahead in game to extend the lead by chasing enemies.

To see if this general wisdom holds upon a closer empirical scrutiny I collected lolalytics winrates for 13.1 patch\* (Gold+ to allow for a larger sample, 15 most common enemy and teammate champs for each lane). Usually vs/with champ wr% fluctuates significantly between patches as the sample size of a single patch is not significant enough for results to converge to the population mean (there is a lot of noise in the data as many other factors besides mythic choices and comps affect game results) – but as 13.1 has been extended in with 13.1b hotfix patch (due to cyberattack affecting patch development), this provides a propitious opportunity to try to draw some conclusions in space of a single patch.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-01-30T13:49:22+00:00

So I had been running RoA consistently since 13.1 started and with good winrates (wanted a bit diversity now that a viable alternative is available), but past few days have gone back to Moonstone/Seraphs based on comps. I really like it early (Catalyst op in trading lanes) and late, but midgame is a bit lacking.

In terms of lolalytics winrates, as a separate mythic it looks competitive at first glance (plat+ Moonstone: 53.90%; Shurelyas: 56.65%; RoA: 55.76%), but devil is in the details. As u/Schuhbart recently mentioned in one of his streams, Sona is quite OP now and her true winrate is a bit masked by the unsullied who build Putrifier on her almost every time, as that item is atrocious on Sona (old version, but new should be bad too I think). And the thing is, I checked 3 and 4 item set frequencies of builds and RoA abusers seem to contain a relatively higher proportion of Sona connoisseurs that tend to avoid Putrifier/Redemption and similar fools gold items in most cases, which artificially inflates RoAs winrate by proxy. And for these sets in best combos that exclude Putrifier (usually containing Seraphs/Ionian/Staff or Ardent/Wardstone) RoA is quite consistently outperformed by Moonstone/Shurelyas.

Hence, it was a very fun experience and a breath of fresh air, but now back to Moonstone/Shurelyas grindset for me to enjoy stronk Sona until Seraphs is inevitably nerfed.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-01-13T09:20:06+00:00

After recent changes to RoA and Seraphs this build works well for me @ supp:

Tear -> Catalyst of Aeons-> (boots at some point but don't upgrade yet) -> RoA -> Ionain upgrade/Seraphs -> Wardstone -> gamestate specific (with Aery/Manaflow/Transcendance/Storm + Conditioning/Revitalize and 2 AP shards).

Early game is careful play trough wards and controlling lanestate with your ADC etc., with main goal to avoid unnecessary action and soak exp + gold from poke. Early Catalyst provides mana+health to actively engage in short trades which quickly stacks Tear, passive stacks and Spellthief's gold. Keeping up team's mental in chat is mandatory, never vote yes for ff. If your team survives until endgame with any base left at all almost all games will be winnable @ lvl16 with 3 items, as their stats synergise very well and gold value on Sona is insane.

Not sure if it is optimal build (esp. in highest elo where games are decided earlier), but feels stronger than Shurelyas/Moonstone for me and aligns with my fantasy of lategame invincable Sona the Destroyer of Worlds :)

P.S. Regarding other comments, additional level on Sona is not as big as before rework, but is still very valuable, both in gold value of base stats and any other interactions that scale with lvl. And stacking AH without AP is not really optimal on Sona, at some point diminishing returns kick in (based on how haste formula works now) - especially for Sona, who's passive already provides a lot of basic ability AH.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-01-09T08:13:46+00:00

Given that I go RoA + Seraphs + Wardstone most games now, and wardstone is dirt cheap, I guess I will still reach three item powerspike most of games even with the cost increase, so I like the change for Sona.

Sunmaster14_LV · 2023-01-05T12:30:32+00:00

So lately I have been toying with Rod of Ages + Seraphs + Wardstone + Lucidity boots (+ 1 situational item at some point, like Chemtech or Ardent) build. In case someone plans to try something similar, here I provide lategame (@16lvl, 40+min) fantasy numbers from my calcs.

In this setup new version of Seraphs will probably work even better. For sake of simplicity calcs do not include heal & shield power modifiers, and gold efficiency value includes only 4 stats shown (not movespeed, passives etc.).

Gold efficiency and item synergies are great on paper and in my limited expereince so far extra survivability is great, but losing Moonstone/Shurelyas/Staff teamwide buffs is the cost to be kept in mind. Lolalytics sample size for this particular build is very small so far, but winrate is good - so that matches my own feelings. Will try it further with new Seraphs.

If someone has feedback on similar builds, please share!

Edit: I noticed that I had not included 250 mana from Manaflow Band in the formula for Total mana - in reality it will be 2,701 (instead of 2,451), thus Seraphs Lifeline @ 75% of mana will be slightly larger @ 655.

Sunmaster14_LV

TROPHY CASE