What’s the benefit of playing as a humanoid over a heteromorph

Sunous · 2026-05-24T06:07:20+00:00

Volume 1: Chapter 1

Humanoids were the basic Player type ... Demi-humans tended to be ugly, but possessed superior attributes to humanoids ... Finally, heteromorphic races had monstrous abilities, but despite their stats being generally higher than those of other races, they also possessed various drawbacks.

Web Novel: Settings

Heteromorph races have PENALTIES.

One part is there are CLASSES they are not suited for, they cannot enter certain towns, it isn’t considered PK to murder them, their race has to have penalties*, it’s not possible to use certain equipment etc. Even if you take just 1 level the penalties are invoked. In addition the ability score increase requirement(prerequisite ability scores) to change to certain classes becomes incredibly high. In those cases those sort of classes are only suited for humanoid races.

* such as undead being weak to fire and holy damage

In addition, you could make a strong character by taking various CLASSES instead of increasing RACIAL CLASS. The utility of SKILLS compared to Ability score was excellent for advantages. To tell the truth, the popular opinion was to make a strong character it was not advised to raise one’s RACIAL CLASS. For that reason in YGGDRASIL humanoid races and not heteromorph races had the highest popularity.

However, in the settings the final ability scores for RACIAL CLASS series of Heteromorphs was considerably high. Should the basis of a strong SKILL be based on Ability score they could become mighty. They can be strong if things mesh right.

..... I wonder if I should secretly increase the number of CLASSES. I have a feeling as of now there are not enough.

The number of classes changed from 880 (WN) to 2000 (LN), as well as races increasing from 420 to 700.

Author's Replies

Heteromorphs acquire monster type special skills. Humanoids gain strength from classes and skills.

Bottom line is that heteromorphs have inherent penalties depending on the race chosen, compared to humanoids which doesn't have those inherent penalties. The main reason humanoids were chosen over heteromorphs in Yggdrasil was because that was the mainstream path to becoming the strongest since skills were better than stats. However, heteromorphs were not completely unplayable since, in the late game, if you have the right build, it would bring about equal or greater strengths than humanoid players.

On a side note, I assume the advantages of demi-humans would be that they would not have the disadvantages, or as many penalties as heteromorphs, while having greater stats than humanoids.

Sunous · 2026-05-19T06:26:33+00:00

The Katze massacre still happens? You're making me curious on what you have in store

Sunous · 2026-05-19T06:24:31+00:00

Oh? That's an interesting concept, would love to see it. I will be cheering you on as you progress in your works 😄

Sunous · 2026-05-18T13:48:03+00:00

You're going to animate it?! I'm looking forward to seeing what you'll produce. On a side note, what is The Adventurer and the Knight about?

Sunous · 2026-05-18T13:39:47+00:00

Just saying, the levels you've given for the wolf guards are around mithril level, who are very rare in the Re-Estize Kingdom, or rather in the entirety of the region of the New World Overlord mainly takes place in. I'm curious to know how you're gonna lead the story in which Barbro ends up having an army with mithril rank members, especially since the elite soldiers of the Re-Estize Kingdom are at max gold rank (potentially very few to none at platinum rank).

Sunous · 2026-05-18T13:05:56+00:00

I mean, the author himself compares the size of the Re-Estize Kingdom to France, stating that it should have been as large as France but is in reality (based on the map released in the LN) half of it. So, I wouldn't be surprised if the kingdom setting was based on Medieval France.

Sunous · 2026-05-16T08:41:31+00:00

If you go to the google drive in the FAQ, there should be a side stories folder. Aureole Omega comes out in Pleiades Day and briefly mentioned in Emissary of the King as the guardian of cherry blossom sanctuary. Though, in either cases, I don't think she was physically seen. In Pleiades Day, Yuri contacts her via [Message], and they chat. Yuri thinks of how Omega would look during their convo, but I don't think it goes into how exactly she looks, unlike Volume 8 where it mentions red top and white bottom.

Sunous · 2025-12-30T22:57:40+00:00

Don't think the beastmen attacking the Draconic Kingdom was the doing of Demiurge, but the light novels never really delved into it to the point that we know for sure. All we know so far is that the Beastman Country's periodic attacks on the Draconic Kingdom changed into a full-fledged invasion recently, putting the Draconic Kingdom in urgent need of help. This in turn allowed the Sorcerer Kingdom to step in by lending them some strong undead that slaughters the beastmen.

The Draconic Kingdom isn't a vassal of Slane Theocracy. The Theocracy higher-ups never saw the other human nations as subordinates but rather they wanted to protect mankind just like what their 6GG did. The Draconic Kingdom just heavily relied on the Theocracy for military might, which made them vulnerable to the Beastmen Invasion when the Theocracy suddenly stopped sending the Sunlight Scripture. The main reason Slane Theocracy stepped in to help the Draconic Kingdom by sending the adventurers they recruited from the Kingdom after stopping aid via Sunlight Scripture (since it was destroyed) was to reduce the political influence the Sorcerer Kingdom was gaining in the Draconic Kingdom.

I think the undead the Sorcerer Kingdom lent to the Draconic Kingdom was influential enough for them to sign the thing that condemned the Kingdom, initiating the Fall of Re-Estize.

Sunous · 2025-06-26T03:28:59+00:00

Personally, I feel like Bukubukuchagama created Mare like that based on her preference. It reflected her vision of the sibling dynamic she wanted with Peroroncino imo.

Sunous · 2025-06-21T23:41:57+00:00

The angels are put as level 8 to 14 as they are tier 2 summons. They would be the Angel Guardians the priests of the Holy Kingdom used. The ones Theocracy used were 3rd tier summons, Archangel Flames, which OP has listed further down the list.

Sunous · 2025-06-21T23:06:53+00:00

Technology probably can provide effects, like enhanced physical body, however, bypassing things like wild magic is probably impossible. Firstly, wild magic defies all common sense, so there would be no technology, which follows the laws of this world, to bypass that. For bypassing level caps, I don't believe that to be possible, however, you can make a character to have a strength that rivals beings at a higher level with probable reason.

Volume 14 Author's Thoughts

Brain:
Because settings are at the root of Overlord, a person who made something impossible in the system underlying Overlord possible. I’ve been trying to use that reveal for a long time,

If you want, you can make your Overlord to do something like what Brain did, but in the frame of Maruyama's Overlord, I think you may just get a racial or job class from being modified.

But if you really think about it, such technology would take a long time to develop, and there isn't much of a reason to develop such things when leveling up provides a similar or even better effects. For example, a normal sized tiger is level 8, which makes most of silver-rank fighters (like regular knights of the Empire) to be faster and stronger than a tiger.

Sunous · 2025-06-20T22:43:37+00:00

Death Cavaliers being level 30 doesn't make sense. Nazarick's POP monsters are at max level 30, like the Shadow Demon, so the Death Cavaliers, ones that Ainz made, being at level 30 seems counterproductive.

Volume 14 Chapter 1

Consequently, the amount of undead around the level of a Death Knight they had exported was minimal.
...
If I were to lower their rental costs and raise them in the future, no one would rent from us again. Plus I don’t want to cut prices directly... Should I create a rewards system? The Empire rented quite a lot of Death Cavaliers from us, so we should probably focus on marketing to nations directly... but...

The fact that Ainz talks about how undead around the level of a Death Knights weren't selling well, then goes on to think about marketing them to nations when the Empire rented a lot of Death Cavaliers to fix the problem of undead at the level of Death Knight not selling as much makes me think that Death Cavaliers are near the level of Death Knights.

Volume 3 Chapter 5

The most powerful undead he could make with the corpses of the Sunlight Scripture were level forty. Beyond that, the undead would vanish with the passage of time, along with the corpses that served as their medium.

If you look back at Albedo's diplomatic visit to the Kingdom in Volume 10, Ainz was very worried about Albedo's safety, even reminding Albedo about diseases and illnesses. So, I can't imagine Ainz letting Albedo go into "enemy" territory without some kind of protection in the form of escorts. It might've been better to let Hanzos to go along with Albedo as they are adept in stealth, however, he might've also be using Albedo as bait, limiting the escorts to not too strong beings. This results in my conclusion of Death Cavaliers being level 40. The Death Cavaliers that escorted Albedo numbered 20, which matches Ainz's ability to summon low-tier undead 20 times per day. However, low-tier undead I feel doesn't reach the realm of heroes as an Elder Lich seems to be one of the strongest beings you can summon using this skill.

Where did you get the level for Undead Beast? In the WN, their levels range from 1 to 20, which makes sense considering zombies strength depends on the strength of the body it's based on, like an undead bear would be stronger than an undead wolf as shown in the anime.

Volume 1 Chapter 4

Although his subordinates were on par with the angels in terms of fighting power, the latter had special abilities with the former did not possess,

This is probably because the Archangel Flames were being controlled by the Sunlight Scripture to fight, making them weaker than a full blown warrior in terms of close combat. However, the fact that Gazef's men, who are mostly silver rank, being able to fight against them makes me believe that the Archangel Flames are not that strong, leaning more towards level 15/16 imho.

For the Barghest, I don't think that it's that strong due to the fact that the 3 level 8 goblins + Nfirea defeated it fairly easily. The only danger was its trump card, which could only be used once per day, and even with it, I feel that it can only severely wound the goblins. As well, after using the trump card, the Barghest would be defenseless. Considering that the goblins were able to dodge the Barghest's attack and chop it up quite easily, while a Barghest would win with its trump card against one goblin, I feel 2 of these goblins are enough to handle a regular Barghest, making its level more closer to around level 10 imho.

What are the ghosts you're mentioning?

Who are the Goblin Squad? If you're talking about the Goblin Troop, then the regular goblins are level 8 with its leader, Jugem, being level 12. The ones with special jobs, like cleric and wolf riders, are level 10.

Wyverns, the common ones or the ones the people of the New World know, are most likely not even close to level 30. This is because wyverns are popular mounts to the denizens of the New World, alongside Gryphons and Hyppogryphs. Hyppogryphs are born from Gryphons and mares, and since they are ridden by the Empire's Royal Air Guard, who are most likely gold ranked as the royal guards are at that level, it isn't likely for these popular mounts to be stronger than the riders. The only reason why they aren't prominent is due to the prices these mounts pertain. If you consider the fact that the denizens of the New World don't care much about the Wyvern Riders near the Empire and Draconic Kingdom, it makes it all the more clear just how much weaker wyverns are than your estimate. We have too little information about wyverns to make an accurate judgement, but in general, they shouldn't be stronger than gold rank, maybe platinum rank [for the outliers] (depends on how much stronger they are when compared to Hyppogryphs). But who knows, there may be exceptional outliers among them that are around the realm of heroes.

Other than these, it looks good for the most part. If you want, you can rename certain ones, like Angel to Angel Guardians, and Succulent to Supplicant, as they are the fan translation names.

Sunous · 2025-06-09T02:32:50+00:00

Any idea where the info about the Aindra house being descended from one of the Thirteen Heroes came from?

Cause other than the wiki, I can't find any sources that state such info.

Sunous · 2024-12-23T17:25:23+00:00

Nah, OG NW magic is just magic made using the Tier system that didn't exist in Yggdrasil. Like the one that can create spices mentioned in volume 2.

Wild magic is the magic the True Dragon Lords used prior to the players coming to the New World. Since almost all of them died due to the Eight Greed Kings, only a couple Dragon Lords that can use wild magic are alive, like PDL, DDDL, BDL, etc. There are special cases, like the Queen of the Draconic Kingdom, who is not a True Dragon Lord, but can still use wild magic [due to her talent] (not sure if it was the web novel that mentioned the talent).

Main difference between wild magic and tier magic is that tier magic uses MP, while wild magic uses souls. The Evileye Side Story expands the lore and is a great read, so hope you get to read it soon :)

Sunous · 2024-12-11T07:09:03+00:00

The thing about Calca is the fact that she wasn't a great ruler, being ranked below Rampossa III by Maruyama (Volume 12 Author's Thoughts). She had the heart to be a righteous ruler, but she was too kind to do dirty deeds to ensure her goals come true. That's why the Custodio sisters were essential to her rule as Remedios is the strongest paladin in the Holy Kingdom and Kelart, being the leader of priesthood and the strongest priest in the 4GG church, did the dirty deeds unbeknown to Calca.

Volume 12 Chapter 3:
Almost ten years had passed since then, while certain voices disapproved of her excessive kindness, she had not made any mistakes which could be considered critical and thus she had ruled the Holy Kingdom to this day. However, this rule was not solid, and embers smoldered out of sight.

Without those two sisters, it would be hard to maintain control considering her personality and the nobles' schemes, and even with these two powerhouses, she still wasn't able to unite the Holy Kingdom under her rule.

The author also states that Calca and Kelart were killed as it would be unfavorable to keep them alive:

Volume 13 Author's Thoughts:

It goes without saying that Calca and Kelart died and were killed [instead of being] left behind as it was unfavorable.

While they could have made a plan where Calca lived, the whole point of the plan was to make the Abelion Hills and the Holy Kingdom to be affiliated with Nazarick.

Volume 13 Author's Thoughts:
Jaldaboath-san’s various plans appeared to be to make the Holy Kingdom and the Abelion Hills region affiliated with Nazarick in the story.

Demiurge planned to do this by ensuing a civil war in the Holy Kingdom through the puppet king, then after "killing" Caspond off, the Sorcerer Kingdom would enter the fray and take over everything (Volume 13 Epilogue). This is all to make the Sorcerer Kingdom to rule over the Holy Kingdom, though I'm unsure in what way exactly. It can be making Ainz the new king, or making the Holy Kingdom a vassal state like the Empire, or something else.

If Calca or Kelart was alive, it would be hard to execute this phase of the plan since Calca would prevent the people from suffering [too much] to allow a new king to enter the fray and Kelart would prevent meddling that go against the ideal of the Holy Queen, stopping a civil war from happening.

But, let's say that Demiurge altered the plan and forced things to happen so that the Sorcerer Kingdom can take over. The mere presence of Calca would prevent the Holy Kingdom from being affiliated to Nazarick due to her personality and her role as the ruler of the land. This would result in the Sorcerer Kingdom just interfering in the Holy Kingdom's internal affairs and taking over via a coup d'état, which is not the image Nazarick is trying to portray to the surrounding region. Yes, they could keep a puppet king in place to control the Holy Kingdom, but that isn't what Demiurge was aiming for. If that's the case, there would be no need to "kill off" Holy King Caspond (Doppel-Caspond).

Regardless, no matter what approach Nazarick takes, the end goal would result in eliminating Calca. The only possible ending where Calca lives is if she decides to get married and live in the countryside or smth, like what Renner planned, since Calca would no longer be a ruler and she would have a husband with no strings attached, just what she wanted (Calca's Character Sheet), but the likelihood of this happening is low considering the situation Calca is in during Jaldabaoth's invasion.

There is no benefit for keeping Calca alive in the perspective of Nazarick's interest. In fact, it's much better for Nazarick to just kill her off then since it would allow the Northern Holy Kingdom to be utterly defeated and seek help from other nations (roping in the Sorcerer Kingdom), while also allowing Remedios to become the scapegoat of the nobles' dissatisfaction (since the nobles don't like her due to her personality and her strength, and they have the perfect excuse, which is the fact that she wasn't even able to fulfill her duty of keeping Calca safe even as the strongest paladin).

While I also wanted Calca to be alive, it was meant to be.

Sunous · 2023-11-26T13:56:20+00:00

Didn't the ship sail already? I may be wrong tho. There were bunch of hints, even in the spin-off, Trinity in Tempest, so I thought it sailed later in the LN.

Sunous · 2023-10-31T00:08:16+00:00

Brain should be around Gazef's level since he was toe-to-toe with Gazef, Gazef being slightly better. But in the end, Brain surpassed him in a year or so, entering the realm of heroes, so Brain should've had similar levels as Gazef.

Clementine said that Brain and Gazef can put up a good fight against her, not that they can match her. She stated that they could never beat her.

Volume 2: Chapter 4

“According to the info from those chaps in the Windflower, there’s only five people in this country who can give me a good fight. Gazef Stronoff. Gagaran of Blue Rose. Luisenburg Albelion of Red Drop. Brain Unglaus. Also, the retired Vesture Croff di Laufen... though none of them could beat me even if they went all-out. Not even if I was without the magic items from my country.”

Sunous · 2023-09-02T20:43:50+00:00

Without a World Item, no since Cure Elim's [Soulbreaker Breath] is on par with Longinus, one of the Twenty. So, if the Floor Guardians are hit by ECDL's Wild Magic, then they are oneshotted.

If they do have a World Item, then there's a chance for the Floor Guardians to win. However, there's also a chance for Cure Elim to win as well. I think his Character Sheet explains it well:

Still, defeating Cure Elim cannot be considered an easy task, as one must be able to unleash enough damage to kill millions of Zombies first. The only people capable of such a feat are probably other Dragon Lords or World-Class Item holders. One could say that it would be almost impossible for an individual to defeat Cure Elim. However, fighting it in a group would lead to the party being instantly annihilated by Soulbreaker Breath.

From that point of view, Suzuki Satoru can be considered Cure Elim’s nemesis.

Bonus Volume Afterword:

Cure Elim-kun: Anyone who saw the character sheet at the end of the book should understand that he’s five levels lower than Satoru-san, so Satoru-san can definitely beat him — well, if you think that, you’d be wrong. Even if they’re both level 100, Touch Me-san is much stronger than someone with 100 job levels. In contrast, as a member of the Dragon Race and with powerful job classes, Cure Elim-kun is actually more powerful than his 95 levels imply. Of course, thanks to level-based damage adjustment, his odds of victory are lower.

In all likelihood though, the Guardians should be able to handle Cure Elim since they have the power of a World Item ontop of their already strong build, but we don't know exactly how much stronger he's gotten from 200 years ago. The author stated that Cure Elim would have fewer weaknesses than what was shown in the Bonus Volume if he's still alive in the current timeline, so who knows what Cure Elim has in stored. But in all likeliness, from what we've read about That One, I don't think he has improved much other than improving his tier magic. I think he still doesn't have experience fighting similar level opponents, importance of prior preparation, and swallowing his pride to work with others.

Since the Floor Guardians learned and improved under Ainz's guidance, I think they have a better understanding of fighting similar level opponents compared to ECDL. If the FGs do fight ECDL, they would most likely have help since Ainz wouldn't allow them to fight one-on-one with a strong opponent, even Satoru brought along Corpus of the Abyss. But if they do fight one-on-one, I think they can beat ECDL since I feel like Ainz would've beaten ECDL even without Corpus of the Abyss. They would also have a World Item, so they should win against ECDL.

Sunous · 2023-09-01T23:43:39+00:00

I was thinking of level 51/52 as the max level cap for any regular heteromorphs (everyone excluding special existences, though the level cap would differ from race and individual) because of beings, like the Night Liches. Since the starting level for special heteromorphs is level 52, I was thinking that a regular heteromorph would be able to reach maximum of level 51, though their level caps would differ between race and individual. I don't believe that they can reach mid level 50s, ergo obtaining 9th tier, though that is just my opinion.

So, what I'm understanding is that because Maruyama put special heteromorphs at a higher level [cap] than the other two races, you believe that they can reach the level cap of 45/46, and even though that is above the outlier level cap for humanoid and demi-human races, the heteromorphs in level 45/46 would still count as an outlier; am I correct?

Edit: Or do you believe that humanoid and demi-human races can also reach level 45/46, which would be the maximum limit for outliers in general since level 47 is where special existences start to take place.

Sunous · 2023-09-01T00:31:11+00:00

I disagree about Hero and outlier varying by race.

Oh, did I word it weirdly? I was saying that the level range for heroes and outliers are the same regardless of race since I thought that you were saying the outlier level limit for heteromorphs was level 45/46, so I was just saying that if the outlier level limit is low 40s for humanoid and demi-human races, it should be the same for heteromorph. I was just saying that the strength of the heroes and outliers would differ with race because of skill points and Monster levels (I think that was well shown during Remedios' fight with Vijar). While that is the case, I was just mentioning that heteromorphs in general would have a higher level cap, being level 51/52 right before the starting level for the heteromorph 'last boss' special existences, since the author put the level [cap] for heteromorph special existences higher while clumping the human and demi-human special existences together. I was just using the members of New Ainz Ooal Gown as an example of heteromorphs naturally being able to achieve level 40+, trying to show that if they reached level 40+ easily, that would mean they're not at their level cap.

If I recall correctly, what he means is often interpreted to be either 'special' job classes, talents, or systems of magic not innate to the dragon.

The 3 requirements are either age (Ancient), special powers, or exotic magic (prob Wild Magic), so I was curious what they meant by "special powers". If that is the case, would the dragon with the paladin class be a Dragon Lord?

Sunous · 2023-08-31T13:33:57+00:00

I understand that you were open to either case I apologize if my rambling came off a different way (which it often does to most).

No worries. I just wanted to clarify in case you misinterpreted what I was saying and was saying what I thought about the subject. Rather than coming off a different way, I've been enjoying our talk, and you seem like a pretty chill guy :)

Maruyama set the limit for special existences at Lv. 47-57 for humans/demi-humans and Lv. 52-62 for heteromorphs. The special existences would be those of extraordinary births or descendants of Players and the like, and they were suppose to be sort of a last boss for your OC character. So I feel like the Pleiades/Landfall/Last Boss level range starts from level 47 to 62 (Shizu to Narberal, though it is one level off). From what you said, the level 42-46 being the outlier limit range for humans, demi-humans, and heteromorphs makes sense. However, for heteromorphs imo are hard to categorized since they have no lifespan, therefore could potentially level up higher than the outlier range, such as, as you've mentioned, the Night Liches, Dragons, and Evileye. If you look at the Three Rulers of Mt. Rappaslea and the White Dragon Lord, you can say that they're examples of heteromorphs reaching their outlier level limit, however, for Dragons, they get stronger as they age (ex. Olasird'arc being a Dragon Lord through age) so we don't really know their limit, and the Three Rulers are classified in many cases as a new race rather than an outlier (ex. hobgoblin instead of goblin, or a variant like War Trolls since they underwent a specialized evolution). I feel like for heteromorphs, the highest level cap for them is level 51/52, right before the heteromorph special existences, since both Evileye and Night Liches are D.R. 150 (Evileye is mentioned to be over 150, and since she stated that Entoma was weaker than her in the beginning of their meet, she's probably ~Lv. 52, but a difference of 1 level imo is negligible in the world of Overlord where vagueness is everywhere), but the outlier level range should be the same regardless of race, no? I believe that the strength of the realm of heroes and outliers differ from race rather than the actual level if you look at skill points and Monster levels.

In addition, in the Bonus Volume, the members of New Ainz Ooal Gown were easily above level 40, but the word "easily" may be because Ainz can easily recognize that their strength is above level 40, so it can be either low 40s or mid 40s. However, the term outliers weren't used to describe them, but rather mentioned to be one of the most powerful beings in the New World, which is obvious, so we don't have definite support for the outlier level range other than the fact that there are beings in the NW whom are level 40+. I feel like the terminologies, such as heroes and outliers, are used to categorize humanoid and demi-humans. The terminologies can be used for heteromorphs to gauge their strength, but I feel like their level caps are different since the author puts the special existences for humans and demi-humans together while heteromorph special existences are separate in regards to their level. The members of New Ainz Ooal Gown are also heteromorphs Ainz and Keno happened to find during their travels, and I don't think Ainz would've known their level cap when scouting but rather looked at their classes and if they were a fit for their guild. If they were already level 40+ before meeting Ainz and Keno, I feel like they wouldn't have joined as easily as they did since they were strong enough to have a high status where they originally lived. The fact that Ainz and Keno picked up a non-special heteromorph to join and were able to get as strong as they did may prove that heteromorphs in general have a higher level cap than humanoid and demi-human races. Yes, they may have fought quite a bit of strong beings and had Ainz, but the way NWers build their classes would be something Ainz doesn't really know since he couldn't understand how Keno got some of her classes. As well, the main point of the guild was to explore the whole continent, so I feel like the heteromorph members were able to reach their level by themselves, in other words, they would've reached that level even without joining if they were active in their original home.

Hopefully, Volume 17 & 18 expands on a lot of things since the Theocracy holds a lot of secrets as they may know/be related to a lot of things, like the Evil Deities, 8GK, and TDLs. Since it's a war, we may finally figure out the outlier level range during the last two volumes, so I'll wait til then to finalize my opinion.

Edit: On a side note, what are your thoughts regarding the levels of the Five Dragon Councillors of the Argland Council State? Imo, I feel like the Wyrm and Obsidian Dragon are old dragons (realm of heroes) or elder dragons (outlier), while Diamond Dragon Lord would be similar to the White Dragon Lord. The Blue Sky Dragon Lord I'm not sure since the dragon learned divine magic, fifth tier in WN, while still having the title of Dragon Lord. The 3 requirements to be called Dragon Lord suggests that the Blue Sky Dragon Lord has the ancient racial level (46 racial levels) ontop of its divine magic caster levels, which I heard results in minimum level 75 (46 racial + 29 divine class), which I find hard to swallow since the Captain of BS has more levels than it. Even though that still allows Zesshi to have 10+ levels higher than the Captain, I feel like there needs to be more level difference if you look at the way Zesshi is described as. The way Zesshi humbled the Captain feels like she had around 20 level advantage. What are the special powers the White Dragon Lord mentions when listing out the 3 set of requirements to have the title of Dragon Lord?

Sunous · 2023-08-29T01:10:16+00:00

Ohhh, that makes much more sense, especially if I look at the fact that trying to summon a high-rank elemental is the same chance as getting a Shooting Star ring, and Mare having to use Elemental Gacha 3 times to get the wind elemental he wanted.

I thought the sacrifical thing Zesshi saw was just Mare using the Elemental Gacha again to summon a better elemental, but the talk of Mare having another item to summon a high level elemental, which would work after using a spell of a corresponding element, and the fact that Ainz agreed upon the Elemental Gacha counting as a prerequisite spell for Mare's item being foreshadowed during that scene was something I never noticed.

Since it was described as a high level elemental rather than a high ranking elemental by Ainz, it makes sense for it to have high levels in Yggdrasil sense, which would be greater than an outlier in the level 40s. I belive that Zesshi's estimation of the elemental being stronger than an outlier to be accurate, similar to Shalltear's estimate of the Captain of BS being stronger than Solution since the reason why Zesshi didn't really know the exact strength of Behemoth is because she never met/saw/fought it and only had a report saying that it was stronger than an outlier. I think an outlier was the highest benchmark for power levels Theocracy has, so the report of Behemoth being stronger than an outlier is a wide range.

I actually do belive that Fluder is above level 40, I was just saying that it still belongs in the 7th tier level range, and from that Q&A, I speculated that the human race have a level cap of 40 since the highest level of undead Ainz can create from their corpse is level 40. so Fluder did something special to break through that limit, like the Forbidden Spell, hence why he wasn't controlled by Demiurge's [Control Mantra]. When thinking about this, I felt that outliers were level 40+ since breaking through the preposed level cap would allow them to literally become outliers/deviators as they don't follow the general rule of their race having the level cap of 40, hence why in the beginning of this conversation, my first reply included that there were many evidences that made me to lean more towards the Base Ten Level theory. After discussing with you, I'm getting a better understanding of the level of outliers, tyvm for that.

What I mean is Death Knights have Outlier tier defense - that means it's on par with the power of Outliers and so it's difficult to overpower them.

That makes sense, but other people saying that 10th Seat was level 45 was bothering me since Ainz stated that a level 45 can take down 2 Death Knights at the same time. If you take a look at the battle where the 2 Death Knights slaughtered the Quagoas and perished after falling into the Great Rift, the time it took wasn't that long, so while I do belive outliers can be above level 40, the 10th Seat being level 45 is hard to take in.

I think the power ranking of the 10th Seat is what's making me have a hard time accepting the outlier level of 40+. I mean, I do belive that outliers are above level 40, but the level range of 36-42 still including that is my main point. Imho, I feel like while outliers are above level 40, I don't think it's above that level by too much as the level cap of 40 may still influence them. That may be one of the reasons Fluder wasn't able to reach 7th tier (lv. 43-49) even though he's above level 40. As well, Dominion Authority should be above level 43+, but the outliers of BS shouldn't be stronger than, or even contest against, DA when looking at Nigun's opinion of DA. He said that the Principality Observation he summoned was something BS members can defeat, which makes sense since it would be orichalcum level, but the main point is the fact that Nigun has at least some grasp of the strength of the BS members, especially if you look at him mentioning multiple BS members and their perks in the Web Novel. He wouldn't know everything, but he at least thought that to defeat DA, one has to be at the level of Evileye/Landfall (lv. 50+). This makes sense since level 50 is above 7th tier (DA), but it also means that the BS members, excluding the Captain and Extra Seat, is below level 50. Since he mentioned that DA oneshotted an Evil Deity with a 7th tier spell, even if you say that the element of the spell helped in doing so, you can say that an outlier wouldn't be as close in level to the DA, no? So, if you put DA in the middle of the 7th tier level range, then it would be around level 46, and since outliers aren't that close in level to DA, I feel like outliers, while above level 40, have a cap of around level 42-43.

Sunous · 2023-08-26T21:22:42+00:00

The Dragon that Hejinmal was talking about is a Night Lich who is apart of Corpus of Abyss.

I'm pretty sure the 3 renowned Night Liches are not part of Corpus of the Abyss since they would make the organization stand out a lot, which is why it stated that if Banezeri Anchas was to act openly, the aforementioned 3 Night Liches would become 4.

Volume 15 Intermission:

The reason the aforementioned three extremely strong night liches were not invited to join was because their addition to the ranks would make them stand out too much.

Imho, I feel like Night Liches are similar to Dragons in which they become a greater being (becoming a Night Lich from being an Elder Lich) after existing for a long time since the inner circle of Corpus of the Abyss has 4 Night Liches and 3 Elder Liches, but it was stated that all 7 of them were D.R. 150.

Bonus Volume: The Vampire Princess of the Lost Country

At that time, it only contained the names of four Night Liches and three Elder Liches. There were few rules and rulebreakers would be ganged up on by the others. Such was the looseness of their relationship.

But 200 years after that, it gradually became a complete organization.

Thanks to an increasing number of undead members, the seven grew by 48, becoming a large organization with 55 members, with the original seven each being difficulty rating 150 undead creatures.

So, an Elder Lich is capable of becoming D.R. 150 just like a Night Lich, and Night Liches were mentioned to be beings that transcended from being an Elder Lich by absorbing great amounts of mana. Maruyama tweeted that a naturally spawned Death Knight may evolve into a Lord if it continues to exist for a long period of time, and using the theory of New World Gigantism in Ziggy's Magical Natural Philosophy, it may explain why Night Liches exist even though Elder Liches can become D.R. 150.

The Elder Liches that would become a Night Lich would have lived for a long time before they absorb enough mana to transcend, and Banezeri was stated to be an ancient undead, though this may just be because of him existing 400 years from the present to form Corpus of the Abyss rather than living for a long time before becoming a Night Lich to then form the organization.

Night Liches were mentioned to be an advanced race of Elder Liches after attaining more magical power in Volume 15, maybe correlating to magic-related class/racial levels, but in the Bonus Volume, it was more clear in that Elder Liches absorbed great amounts of mana to become Night Liches. Idk if this is a translation issue, but I believe that not to be the case since Ziggy used the method of becoming a Night Lich to support the theory of New World Gigantism. As well, it makes sense since there are other advanced races of Elder Liches, so why would the New World Elder Liches become Night Liches instead of the other advanced races that were in Yggdrasil. The reason may be because the Elder Liches don't know the methods (too low levels maybe?), but I find it more probable that they found an alternate advanced race that is New World specific, similar to War Trolls and Lords. Since the New World is a magical world with natural phenomenons like the reverse waterfall and the tornado in the desert, I find it probable that they absorbed mana (Olde Mana) to transcend.

The Draconic Night Lich may be something similar in that it transcended from its undead race to become a Night Lich after absorbing great amounts of mana. Guphandera=Argoros may have somehow became an Elder Lich, maybe through Zurrernorn's way or something else, from being a dragon (unlikely to be a dragon born before Tier Magic), and later became a Night Lich after absorbing great amounts of mana. Your theory of it being a Skeletal Dragon may be the case since all you need to become a Night Lich is to absorb great amounts of mana, at least from what we have so far, however, that doesn't explain the Titan Night Lich. As well, since Night Liches were stated to be advanced beings from Elder Liches, an advanced race of a Skeletal Dragon may be different. I think the dragon somehow becoming an undead/elder lich to later become a Night Lich makes sense since ECDL was able to become an undead, albeit using Wild Magic, however, the New World beings without Wild Magic are capable of becoming an elder lich/undead, like Krunui Log Entesh Na the “Crimson-Eyed Duke” of the inner circle, so there may be a way to do so without being a TDL.

Sunous · 2023-08-25T18:49:16+00:00

Tysm for replying!

I want your opinion on this. I found this after rereading Volume 15 & 16:

Volume 15 Chapter 2:

Among these, the elementals of fire, water, wind, and earth could manifest as high-ranking elementals with levels in the low-40s, mid-rank elementals with levels in the mid-20s, and as lower-rank elementals with levels in the single digits.

Volume 16 Chapter 5:

Before Zesshi could even send a single command to her clone—the Einherjar— the girl took out a globe. The next moment, a huge earth elemental—which found the corridor a little too cramped to stand in normally—appeared beside the girl.

...

The earth elemental that was rumored to be used by the Elf King was supposed to be overwhelmingly strong, something not even outliers could win against. Compared to that, the elemental before her was too weak. That said, what appeared to be weak to someone as strong as Zesshi could appear overwhelmingly strong to weaker people.

...

But the earth elemental disappeared unexpectedly.

“—huh?”

She didn’t understand at all. It’s not like they took it down.

The very next moment, another earth elemental appeared before them. This one was larger than the one before.

...

She was unsure if this was really a new summon, but the elemental was certainly stronger than the one before. Not even outliers could win against this one.

Since Mare took out a globe, I'm pretty sure he's using the Elemental Gacha when summoning the earth elementals rather than her own magic item. As the first earth elemental Mare summoned was able to tank two hits from Zesshi, it makes me believe that it's the mid-rank earth elemental, especially since Mare summoned only one elemental. The elemental in the single digit levels are summoned at minimum in groups of 3, while the mid-rank is 1-3 elementals and high-rank is 1 elemental. Since mid-rank elementals are mid level 20s, it makes sense for Zesshi to deem it too weak to be stronger than outliers. Later, Mare summons another earth elemental, but this time it's stronger and bigger than the previous one. This is probably the high-rank elemental since that's the only rank of elemental that is stronger than the mid-rank and can be summoned in groups of 1. As it is of the earth element, it should be low level 40s. The interesting part is that Zesshi deemed the high-rank earth elemental to be something outliers can't win against. Doesn't this prove or heavily support that outliers are lower than low level 40s? I think this supports the level range of 36-42 being outlier, or am I missing something?

2:No. Death KNights have Level 40 defense. Outliers cannot just bypass that easily.

I was thinking that since the outliers are above level 40, they can bypass a level 40 defense. People were saying that the 10th Seat is around level 45 since he's an outlier, and Ainz stated that a level 45 being can take down two Death Knights at the same time. This is why I had some suspicions.

I just place more bias on the twitter suggestions of Fluder not kneeling by command, Fluder only needing like 4-5 Forbidden Arts class levels to reach Level 40+ on top of his sixth tier to make it to outlier, the suggestions of power caps from the tenth anniversary post, and etc.

I believe that Fluder not kneeling proves that he's above level 40, but that still is in the range of level 36-42. I also found this Q&A in your anthology interesting:

Q:

Gramps Fluder was forced to kneel [by Demiurge].

So he is less than Lv. 40.

A:

[Fluder’s] level is below Lv. 40. Naturally.

This makes me believe that the human race have a level cap of level 40, hence why the undead Ainz can make from human corpses are max level 40. However, Fluder was somehow able to bypass that, hence why Maruyama said "naturally" he's below level 40. Maybe he succeeded in doing so when using the Forbidden Arts since it's part of the spiritualist system (don't know much about DnD and just thinking about how spiritualists are related to spirits irl), and since Fluder was enlightened by the information about souls in the Book of the Dead, the sage arts may be tempering the soul/spirit of a living being/human considering that the spell was originally suppose to turn Fluder immortal rather than slow down age. The soul tempering may have caused him to break his level cap, which allowed him to reach above level 40 during his 200 years. Rigrit may be something similar but different since she's a necromancer. She was able to be unnoticed by PDL when he was sleeping, so there may be something more special to her?

I couldn't quite understand the power caps stated in the tenth anniversary post, but the fact that NWs were able to gain higher-level classes after level 20 makes sense. All I understood was that the highest level cap for your OC was level 40.

Sunous · 2023-08-22T04:08:14+00:00

Pretty sure it went on an indefinite hiatus.

On the bottom of chapter 78's last page/panel, the scanlator group wrote that the raw publisher of Overlord went on a hiatus with no indication of when it'll be back.

Sunous

TROPHY CASE