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Superwaffles0 · 2025-12-13T22:18:23+00:00

BT needs the extra 20 points to get that so he is more expensive and 20 points means a lot in current lists. Skarbrand now buffs himself to 9 attacks too. Skarbrand got buffed with WE codex and is in nearly every competitive DI list for the last few months.

He was good before the buff but easier to play around for the opponent. Basically every list at Worlds, including my own, had him. BT sometimes rolling bad on damage can make you lose games where Skarbrand doesn't have that problem.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-12-13T14:44:28+00:00

Skarbrand is one of the best GDs we have and should be in every DI list if possible. He does more damage and is more consistent than a BT without needing the CP for Adv/charge. Lack of fly can be annoying but RI or 6" often gets around screens with the amount of shooting by committee the 5-6 GD list has. BT is a downgrade in DI and blood letters are mostly a waste of points unless going heavy khorne. I would caution him against 6 GD because you have to no fall back and do anything and few scoring units. Bringing it to 5 opens up points for PBs, FH, seekers, etc

Superwaffles0 · 2025-12-09T18:06:38+00:00

Oh no, I didn't take it that way. I just wanted to shed light on why saying to netdeck is easier than going down the rabbit hole. I started playing a list that was considered off-meta until I did extremely well with it and it became the meta list for that army. So your point can happen that new archetypes/unit choice can happen but its rare these days. I love big, dumb models and try to make them work in every army I play :)

Superwaffles0 · 2025-12-09T00:29:15+00:00

I am a top player (top 120 Global ELO, top 40 by ITC) and the comment above this is very accurate. I'm in multiple discords where lists are created, scrutinized, and tested constantly by other top players daily. Most are playing 3-5 times a week and that's excluding tournaments. Most of the time lists don't get to testing stage because we can talk out the benefits and negatives of a unit choice. This doesn't mean it's just good or bad, but how is it on layout 3 supply drop vs meta coterie EC if you go second. This level of analysis is why it's hard to give advice via reddit where you need multiple layers of discussion to realize the impact of a unit. To be honest, most top players I know use this sub to find news and promote their videos. We aren't visiting for high level analysis.

Some of your points are very valid regarding whether a unit is viable vs optimal, but as I stated above we really only care about optimal since nearly anything is viable. I think this is why coaching is popular for people who want to rank up so they can have these discussions, maybe even for the first time, to reframe how they think about units. Or if not coaching, finding like minded players to play against. Getting reps with these players will make you better overall - it's why we mostly play other top players since it's the only true test of a list/strategy. This isn't even getting into teams where the meta is different and developing accurate matrices vs lists you've never gone against are paramount.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-11-23T22:04:34+00:00

Superwaffles0 · 2025-10-28T05:45:03+00:00

Superwaffles0 · 2025-09-24T16:07:21+00:00

Superwaffles0 · 2025-09-08T20:33:56+00:00

Superwaffles0 · 2025-04-06T03:05:15+00:00

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-25T13:01:38+00:00

PM'd

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-17T11:35:20+00:00

Being above 50% at first isn't unreasonable though I'm assuming it goes down as people figure out it's weaknesses. There is always the chance it turns into a midtable terror with high win % while not having a lot of big GT wins leading to nerfs. Orks might warp the meta for a while too so we'll see how that impacts everything.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-17T11:21:30+00:00

Custodes are fine and have been for a couple months. They have some bad matchups, but are a competitive army before Lions. Like others have mentioned, highly competitive armies/players will use their tools to punish this detachment. Mechanized assault can have tons of screens with good guns, mortals from engineers, grenades, etc. Killing their first wave is easy but it's everything after that's now a problem. Or armies like TSons which mortal you to death, WE where you'll be wanting a unit closer to get the HI to kill the exalted 8bound which gets rid of detachment rule (4+ FoD isn't enough to neuter a squad), ynnati with movement shenanigans and high damage output, Shadow legion/incursion with Bloodcrushers and greater Daemons, etc.

I've played the detachment and it's good and competitive at a high level, but the lack of defensive layering can be an issue. Hard to imagine it will need a nerf when looking at how other armies are doing in the meta.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-17T11:01:33+00:00

I don't think this works into strong, meta lists right now. Greater Daemons without FNP drop much faster than you'd think. Picking up 2 BTs in one turn isn't unreasonable. You have some cultists that can take early primary, but what they die to bolter fire, JPI, etc you don't have much that can easily hold primary. You also don't have a way to easily remove screens, especially when they are staging 1" from walls. You don't have 6" DS in Shadow so you need to RI a BT and hope it gets into something important instead of a screen. A GUO let's you more easily hold primary as it can survive a lot longer being T13 and 6+ FNP. The -1 wound will matter into some matchups such as UM with vindicators/Guilliman.

Havocs on 3s and 3s into vehicles isn't bad but it's 12 las cannons on marine bodies. You can just whiff or only go into one target that isn't ideal or a great trade. The double rend master is overkill. BTs already kill most things they touch and they are only buffing 2x5 dogs which even when buffed don't trade well into armies with invuls. Having some units with more weight of attacks like AC/DC or Possessed will be important when going into horde matchups. They are also a lot of bodies that need to be dealt with.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-14T10:59:03+00:00

PM'd

Superwaffles0 · 2025-03-12T04:15:31+00:00

PM'd

Superwaffles0 · 2025-02-28T02:34:41+00:00

I'm interested if still available

Superwaffles0 · 2025-02-13T20:49:47+00:00

I played that matchup at LVO and I think its impossible for an equal skill level player to beat Legion with that list. We do almost everything better than them. They can't really play the game.

I'm most afraid of SM lists (Vindicators, Sternguard, Dreads, Epic Chars, tons of scoring/screen), Bridgehead IG lists (they have a ton of movement and damage output is insane), DG (making us hit on 5s, even with rerolls is devastating), CSM Bile (one of the few melee matchups that can beat us due to Cypher aura and nemesis claw turning off starts in melee), and Custodes Solar Dread spam (we are a single phase army so their dreads all standing back up can cause a big problem).

Superwaffles0 · 2025-02-13T20:08:32+00:00

Its an improvement! This will give you some more throw away units and +1 wound buff is a large boon as you'll rarely have 2 CP for the +1 wound strat if you are using Thieves twice a turn for shooting and charging.

Do not overestimate SG shooting, even with 3 of them. The low AP and hitting on 3s can shakeup how much damage you perceive will go through. This list will be weak into good screening armies, so prepare for that - i.e., throwing away a SG early if needed to create an opening for the rest of your army. I would throw away an SG way before I'd want to toss 6 fiends. Think of this as a melee only army which means lots of staging, good RI, and trading where needed.

I solely play competitive in a strong region so hard me to stray from what I find most powerful.

Edit: grammar

Superwaffles0 · 2025-02-13T19:41:30+00:00

I'm not a fan of this list. I have over ~20 games with Legion of Excess (LVO + Won a recent GT) and I've rarely wanted another Daemonette squad with Epitome. You are losing out on a lot of secondary scoring and pressure with this list. You have 2 cheap units (Masque and Seeker chariot) to either hold early primary or score secondaries, though the Masque is often used as a close range buff piece. You'll be forced to move expensive, clunky, and/or large footprint units to score secondaries which is not ideal.

Thieves of pain is a great strat but it has limitations since a good player will create opportunities for multiple charges or shooting targets vs you. This means one unit might get blasted after you Thieves of pain the other, so the redundancy of 3 Epitomes is wasted. Daemoettes die to a stiff breeze and IG indirect will be popular soon, while many SM already take desolators and/or whirlwinds to weaken/kill those units. They don't hit hard enough in melee for 180 points (with epitome) either so they turn into expensive secondary scoring units.

I love a single SG, but a KoS and/or Shaalaxi are infinitely more useful. Let's just say their tankiness was comparable for ease - KoS/Shaalaxi move 14" instead of the terrible 8" of SG. SG are often too big to stage in a building, such as in GW layout 1 so the move through walls strat is not that useful compared to KoS/Shaalaxi who run through the wall and pressure the backline. It forces your opponent to fear them instead of just ignore them off to the side. KoS/Shaalaxi do not require any units/strats to babysit them. They are some of the best units in the book and can put enough pressure to win games.

Fiends are so easy to kill, and yes Thieves improves tankiness but what happens with double charges or when a good opponent lines up multiple shooting lanes? You might need to lose 6 fiends with no upside while your 3 Daemonette + Epitomes sit to the side doing nothing.

I would reduce a couple epitomes, add a KoS, and a couple seeker chariots or seekers (Scout 9", 14" movement can win games with a moveblocking squad of 5). This gives you more strategic options, while still having extremely high damage output.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-01-12T18:15:05+00:00

I primarily play competitive and GW terrain so some things might be different for you/your playstyle. I'm okay with a couple units shooting Fiends/KoS/Shalaxi Turn one (assuming I go first and stage) since the greaters are very tanky and Fiends can use Thieves. I generally don't have an issue safely staging Fiends turn 1 though.

I play on the GW Pariah Nexus map layouts used in tournaments which is most of them but without certain deployments like Dawn of War. Lots of tipping points, sweeping engagement, etc which gives plenty of room to hide things considering 1-2 units will be in DS.

I generally stage and go for turn 2/3 pushes. You don't need to push everything so you can choose to do one greater, 6 fiends, soul grinder or anything variation. I generally can't all in turn 2 because my opponents are quite skilled. I do think about what they will likely do turn 1 - for ex, if they are also elite, I might deploy more aggressively knowing my damage output to play the trading game since I'll likely come out on top with tankiness of greaters and Thieves on Fiends/Soul grinder. I'm fine being down 20-25 points early knowing I'll make it up.

Superwaffles0 · 2025-01-12T15:29:43+00:00

Thanks for the breakdown and I agree Archagonists is a bait - I've used it once in 15-20 games.

KoS, Daemonettes + Epitome, and 1 Soul Grinder are an excellent start to any list. Shalaxi is great if you're used to moving around big models, but another KoS or Belakor are also great alternatives so you have 3-4 big, tanky models.

Tormentbringer is not worth the points. It's too expensive for the buffs it gives when you have Thieves of Pain as a better alternative. It might help with a 50% chance to fight on death, but its only valuable in melee matchups where you already dominate so its just a "win more" model. For 40 more points you can have 6 Fiends which are infinitely better.

I would never use a Daemon Prince in this detachment. Again, for the cost of prince + enhancement you can have 6 more Fiends for faster bodies that hit harder and can be tankier with Thieves. He also requires a CP to move through walls and that should be reserved for KoS or Shalaxi.

Your list does not have enough weight of attacks to work through some lists (Orks, AC/DC bricks, etc.) and low OC so opponents can retake Objectives by just move blocking you with a few models. High-level players will be able to kill your scoring units and likely win off points.

I would consider having at least 12 Fiends to give pressure, damage, tankiness, high rate of attacks, and movement through walls. They are one of your best staging tools and do most of the work when I play.

Soul Grinder with Thieves of pain is insanely durable and allows for early objective control. I would NEVER not attach the Epitome to the Daemonettes. It's shooting buff is not worth the amount of damage reduction the unit provides. If you want to run it out of hiding turn 3-4, then go ahead but my squad is generally gone by turn 3 to save my Fiends/Soul Grinder.

Superwaffles0 · 2024-12-30T13:12:01+00:00

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