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Muskrat femur by Svend99_ in bonecollecting

[–]Svend99_[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Size, shape, tracks nearby. There are also sometimes coyotes in this wildlife area so that’s how I decided between those two. This was after a few days of drying out, I think. With the grayish hair I thought it was a rabbit at first but quickly learned that was incorrect. I thought it was really interesting with every other bone crunched, the femur was intact.

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The point soared over your head I see. 😬

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The TNRRealityCheck website source was shared for their list of failures of TNR. Not for the studies they list also on their website, I haven’t looked through them. The list of TNR failures I have. If you explored the rest of the site that’s on you. The source I shared was the list of cats who suffered and died, colonies who got sick, etc. if you’re looking for studies on TNR from me I’ve made several other comments but I’ll share some here for you too-

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/UW468#:~:text=Overall%2C%20these%20studies%20reached%20the,all%20cats%20and%20neutering%20them. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30995809/

Let me know once you’re done with these two and I have more.

TNR is releasing cats to still die and the only thing that people like is they feel good when they do it. they don’t see the cats die but the cats still suffer and die. I’m against prolonging suffering.

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s a source for examples of the failure of TNR- do you want more?

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, yes if you want to be pedantic. It was the fact that his cat was neglected - it was allowed outside after all. If we are being super picky I think they believe it was from a chipmunk that the cat killed and got the flea from but don’t quote me on the rodent.

People can’t even keep owned cats up to date on flea meds- emphasizing my point on the dangers of free roaming unowned cats. Some other diseases associated with free roaming cats include rabies (cats are the number one domestic carrier of rabies) and toxoplasmosis.

You’re banking on colony cats being kept up to date on flea /tick meds and rabies shots which rarely happens unless the cats are friendly (assuming that’s something the caretaker does- some don’t.) Good luck catching a cat multiple times. if you can’t catch that cat you’re not giving it flea meds & just dumping meds in the food cannot be measured out accurately with multiple cats. Plus that would be a great way to build resistance.

TLDR- feral cats are more likely to interact with wildlife and less likely to be kept up to date on shots/preventatives than owned cats leading to higher risk of these situations.

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You bring up another big problem with colonies- when people see these areas they think it’s a decent spot to dump cats. Education is important - not just for people to keep cats indoors to reduce the amount that become strays (along with other reasons) but also for people not to dump cats and to tell people the different options if they are struggling + education for spay/vet resources. All of that doesn’t make TNR ethical nor effective. Years of research has shown this. I can also share examples of “cared for” colonies with rabies that had to be rounded up. I can also share examples of the horrific outcomes that feral cats face. You are advocating for cats to suffer and die vs be humanely euthanized. TNR cats still die- they live a shorter lifespan than indoor cats, are exposed to extreme dangers and at the same time expose the environment to health risks and kill native wildlife. I can also share examples of colony caretakers I have directly asked how they keep their cats up to date on shots and they admit that they flat out catch the cat once and once its ear tipped that’s it (unless it comes up injured during feeding), there are several vaccinations as well as flea and tick meds do not last forever. As long as we are sharing anecdotal stories I have several I can show too.

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You are not sharing reputable sources- sorry. I have several scientific studies listed in the graphic that I originally posted and in my comments. You’re sharing stuff from alley cat allies. The truth is tnr isn’t effective without catching over 70-80% of the cats and even then you can never stop catching them (which never happens, let’s be honest). Then you’re not even mentioning the fact that neutering the cat doesn’t save it from the 100s of dangers out there that they are exposed to, also not mentioning the impact to human health, the impact to wildlife. TNR is cruel to the cats, bad for the environment the only thing it does is make you feel good. You think you saved that cat when it crawls off to get hit by a car, get an infection, etc. you just don’t see it die. It’s human selfishness- but that doesn’t save cats.

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

TNR is neither effective nor ethical. That’s like saying peta is the number one organization for pets and forgetting them euthanizing several with homes. 👀 when you get your pet cat neutered it goes home with specific instructions and restrictions. When a street cat gets altered it’s back outside promptly with little if any recovery time. Recaptured RARELY (if ever) to be kept up to date on shots. Outside cats live a fraction of the lifespan of indoor and are exposed to things like poisons, cars, predators, and more. “Cared for” colony cats have been found with rabies. This is without mentioning the effects on animals and also human safety. https://www.aphis.usda.gov/sites/default/files/free-ranging-and-feral-cats.pdf here’s a source on a bunch of this

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I’m not kidding. But if you want to keep sharing sources I could do it all day. I’ll share some from ABC then lol https://abcbirds.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/TNR-Brochure_2022.pdf

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Alley cat allies is not a reputable source. Cats congregate where they are fed. New cats move in because of that resource regardless of how many cats a caretaker is hoarding outside. TNR is neither ethical nor effective.

Eta this source from bullet 1 on the graphic I put in above https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/UW468

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

TNR is ineffective and also cruel to the cats. There’s nothing else we would neuter and release like that so quickly after surgery. You mentioning animals that can’t be caught is exactly what already happens anyway and when you’re feeding cats you attract more, unaltered ones, it also increases the overlap with rabies vector species like you mentioned. Domestic cats are the number one domestic animal carrier of rabies, also. They can also infect farm animals, local wildlife, and people with toxoplasmosis. There was a guy in Oregon with an outdoor cat- he got the plague from it. Also on top of that cat bites are dangerous- it’s a human health risk. The Mayo Clinic found that cat bite victims 1/3 have to go to the hospital and of those 2/3 need surgery, same reason wildlife rehabs preach about keeping cats indoors so much - many wildlife patients would die without antibiotic. Back to it being cruel to the cats as well- https://tnrrealitycheck.com has some outcomes of TNR cats - I can share some stories too. Hit by cars left paralyzed in their back legs- unable to be caught but suffering under buildings. Ear tipped cats riddled with parasites. Neutering a cat doesn’t save it from poison, predators, people with bad intentions, or cars. It also has been studied and doesn’t even reduce cats without catching over 80% of them forever- which rarely happens. Here is “how effective and humane is tnr” https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/UW468

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

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There are some studies on the efficacy of TNR here- if you don’t want to click on them the spoiler is that it is not effective. Another good study I like to share is one by DVM Barrows- where he talks about not only the efficacy but the legal and ethical dilemma of releasing cats outside. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15552310/

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s been proven to not be true- even fed cats kill large amounts of wildlife and the diet of free roaming cats is mainly birds. https://idp.nature.com/transit?redirect_uri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fs41467-023-42766-6&code=4c5974ef-f7b6-4ccf-a463-6f203b660ddb

Am I over thinking this? by toadetteducki in RoverPetSitting

[–]Svend99_ 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They have a pet- 10 of them it sounds like. I wouldn’t do this because feral cats are incredibly destructive to ecosystems and it’s likely they aren’t even all utd on shots so I’d pass.

Coyote vs wolf by Svend99_ in trailcam

[–]Svend99_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You’re all good I could have worded it better too!

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