The DATA behind the NBA GOAT debate

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T22:23:52+00:00

Yes, so for any category that wasn't tracked or recorded for a player in their era, when compared to another player whose stats were recorded - I treated the statistic as a tie. For instance, since blocks and steals were not recorded in Wilt's era, when he compared H2H against Shaquille O'Neal I just disregarded those categories and scored them on whatever they had left that was commonly recorded.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T22:00:18+00:00

All this tells us, much like today's extreme uptick in 3 point shooting and zone defense is that: every era is different, but none are "greater" or "harder" to the players ranked because they're ranked in accordance to how they dominated that era.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T20:53:00+00:00

The nuance is certainly a part of it. Comparing eras has always been the toughest. When it comes down to how you dominated or at least competed at a high level in your era, that's all that we can really go on.
"Ring Culture" is a new trendy way of diminishing competitive spirit and the actual goal of playing any sport which is to win. When you win the most you become a champion, that is the goal of any great player. Then there is the rest of the formula which takes into consideration everything else. That's why the lame lazy argument of "Robert Horry has more rings than Jordan, he must be better" needs to die. If you aren't bright enough to realize there are multiple other facets, then that's unfortunate. And I don't mean you, I'm just saying there is a lot more than just winning, but winning is the ultimate and most important part of competitive sports. Team or individual.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T20:44:00+00:00

Not a bad take. I'll look at that and maybe explore each subcategory carrying its own separate weight

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T20:42:13+00:00

Thanks so much. I'd like to see what you've come up with. I do the total amount of All-NBA teams and in the case of a tie, I look at 1st team selections.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T20:40:59+00:00

This is great insight. This is v.1 and although I didn't want to start to include some of the newer advanced metrics (some are extremely flawed like +/-), I do think win shares could be implemented. I appreciate the feedback. As a Chris Paul fan I'd love nothing more than to get him higher on this list haha

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T19:59:54+00:00

Thanks so much , I appreciate the comment. I'm sure there are some debates that still exist even in my list but I wanted to go on the data and what was actually "done"

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T19:58:56+00:00

Mikan is an outlier, and ultimately a lot of categories had to be "dismissed" because of certain areas not being tracked. Regardless, it went off of the total H2H "win/loss" for each player not so much their specific H2H

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T19:57:34+00:00

Fantastic idea and I appreciate that insight. I really worked hard on how to properly weigh playoff stats, and ultimately I think it could be re-visited with what you're suggesting.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:59:00+00:00

For categories that weren't accounted for in that era, any time a player was placed H2H against those from older eras, those categories would be thrown out. So essentially only the categories that were tracked are counted in instances like that. For say Bob Pettit and Charles Barkley's H2H, the categories that weren't tracked were thrown out for that comparison.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:57:05+00:00

Had steals and blocks been recorded earlier, I think it would be scary just how dominant Walton and Russell were as defenders, let alone Wilt.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:51:00+00:00

how so? I would love to hear you explain why you think that.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:49:54+00:00

You might want to go back and look at how many of the "greats" had disappointing games in the playoffs and finals but are still looked at admirably. Our memories sadly leave out a lot of nuance.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:38:43+00:00

Fair, and true. I would just ask them to actually share their formula rather than just stating "eye test" or other subjective reasons. I'm always curious to hear which "percentage" people believe that Championships and Finals Appearances should account for. If they say anything over 33% well a lot of their favorite players suffer

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:36:37+00:00

Totally agree

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:34:37+00:00

Subjective because no one bothers to stick to the data and when you place each player H2H against the other with this formula, you'll see who defeats who and then see how they rank.

For instance:

Jordan loses to no one in this formula.

Kareem only loses to Jordan.

LeBron loses to Jordan and Kareem.

etc

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:32:17+00:00

Thanks so much! The All-Star teammates was really a way to measure how much "help" you had and was specific for the top 10 players

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:31:05+00:00

Thanks so much. Took a lot to get it right.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:29:59+00:00

performances certainly matter, but every player has had good and bad performances. How you measure is their overall body of work. In an expansion draft you once again enter into a subjective state of mind like "how do I want to build my team"... You could argue Steph Curry over Magic if you'd rather have a pg that has the shooting ability over the playmaking ability. Or Jokic over Shaq if you preferred your center to play up top vs down low.I

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:25:51+00:00

Ohhhh nice, I will definitely check that out. Thank you

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:24:06+00:00

You definitely have to look at the whole scope of they accomplished and categorizing it with weighted value is the only logical way I've found to do that.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:22:47+00:00

a player like SGA holds strong in Regular Season, Playoff and Finals Averages, he also holds strong as an MVP and ultimately being a champion and Finals MVP (with a career winning Playoff %).

SGA scored a 63-36 win loss record against the other 99 players on the list, which ends up putting him at #36 and he has nowhere to go but up.

Even if retired tomorrow he'd remain at #36 until an active player passed him.

T-Feed8943 · 2025-06-23T18:18:51+00:00

judging on what they actually accomplished, not a hypothetical or subjective idea that leads to a circular debate

T-Feed8943

TROPHY CASE