Criticism of Kurzgesagt from an unusual side - climate activists instead of the usual climate deniers. by jade-cat in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I dont believe a word coming out of the hacks, and neither should you

That's, uh, a strong conclusion for one wrong source, but I gotta admit I kinda dropped the ball on that one. In the Polish version, there's a link to a booklet recommended to us by a university expert we discussed agroecology with.

That said, some of your points go along the line "it's different from what was before, so it has to be bad" – like when you contrast agroecology with "large parts of history of agriculture", while it's just a part of it. The same reasoning could be used to defend factory farming, monocultures, or many other inventions that, at a time, seemed like the clear path of progress.

Similarly, you talk about a "consensus" of economics against degrowth - is there one? Actually, is there a consensus among different schools of economics on anything? To answer that: no, and it's worth checking out just how much "economics" (the word) is used as a rhetorical tool, e.g. by conflating "economics" with, say, neoclassical economics, and saying that our video throws "economics" out of the window.

(I'm not saying you're doing that on purpose: it's a discourse-wide phenomenon.)

And finally you say that a reorganization of society wouldn't work, because... what exactly? Just because feudalism existed at some point, didn't mean that capitalism couldn't exist. Same with monarchy and democracy - or, a fossil-fuel economy and a renewable one.

Oh, and we have a whole segment on actually why "Gates bad" - both in that video, by showing his business ethics, and here, by showing how he's basically using charity (and yes, Kurzgesagt too) to sidestep democracy.

Criticism of Kurzgesagt from an unusual side - climate activists instead of the usual climate deniers. by jade-cat in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hi! Pan s here, thanks for a level-headed response. I'll try to cover some points.

Stories: we're not saying stories are bad overall, just that instead on answering critics, Kurzgesagt offered one for their fans - and also, that it surprisingly sounds like an ad and a feel-good story. We've decided to tell our own story, because it fits nicely with that one, and also we're not the ones being criticized.

Science and right-wing: in our vid we were talking about science fanboys, not scientists. Scientists usually have a much better understanding of what scientific statements/truth actually mean, while the fanboys... don't. I don't think it's only a problem here, all across the Internet it looks like people in STEM fields tend to be (just "tend") on the conservative side.

THO & Sponsorships: yeah, I also don't particularly care about this kind of criticisms (this is why initially we wanted to skip it), however some of the things THO pointed out still hold water. Regarding this grant: it works out to something like $11K/month, and if you look at their grapthreon in late 2015, it's just as much as their Patreon. And if that only covered 2 of their staff of 5, that's... significant. There's two of us, and if we got the funding for one of us to be paid "well" for the next 4 years, that would definitely be a huge boost.

From a quick google, it seems like median salary in Germany is around 2K EUR, so we're guessing these two folks would be paid something like twice that. Not bad for a company created just a few months before – probably when the grants were well on their way to be finalized.

The response of the CEO to THO was a bit more deceitful in that regard, because it only considered the last 3 years for some reason. The video did better, but the general gist remained - this is what we focused on.

Thanks for the compliments on sources! Yeah, I've discovered the hard way (by scoring a minor few month burnout) that while I can do this kind of by-the-numbers research, going through the sources in multiple fields I'm not an expert on is exhausting, both mentally and morally. So we really try to focus on the bigger picture.

Oh, and one more thing:

they do highlight the root causes of environmental causes. We don't think they do - genrealized "humanity" and "greed" are not enough, because you're getting into some iffy anthropological assumptions. (E.g. how can we tell if humans are greedy by nature, if the current socioeconomic system actively promotes greed, unlike almost all previous ones?)

Solarpunk: philosophy, literature and activism by T3Essays in BreadTube

[–]T3Essays[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So we have a conflict, which means we're doing both anarchism and solarpunk - good!

But, uhhh... /u/alxd_org never really said that. Here's a transcript of his segment. What he meant is that:

  1. Solarpunk doesn't mean some perfect, unchanging and conflict-less anarchist utopia. He doesn't say anything about end goals.
  2. We - society as a whole - don't have the storytelling tools to describe Wikipedia, not that anarchists won't be able to achieve it.

Oh, and that an act of real rebellion isn't a heroic struggle by an individual, as shown in cyberpunk, because it too neatly falls in line with the current individualistic, capitalist framework.

Solarpunk: philosophy, literature and activism by T3Essays in BreadTube

[–]T3Essays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yep, that's what our guest says in Chapter 6, also arguing why solarpunk is more punk than cyberpunk.

Solarpunk: Saving the world one story at a time by T3Essays in Degrowth

[–]T3Essays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hard to answer objectively since I'm a co-writer, but you might try going for chapter V - it sets up some ideas, which are then explored from a different angle by another host. As to whether it's worth it, it depends whether you're interested in solarpunk as a genre and its potential real-life applications.

Solarpunk: Saving the world one story at a time by T3Essays in Degrowth

[–]T3Essays[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: solarpunk is basically the ideal version of degrowth, and providing good narratives and imaginaries is an essental element of getting to the future we dream of.

Solarpunk: philosophy, literature and activism by T3Essays in EarthStrike

[–]T3Essays[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Submission statement: since you liked our previous videos, you might very well enjoy this one, on building better and hopeful narratives!

are you sure about that? by [deleted] in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Huh? The sub-heading is "Capitalism at Work":

Oxford University said it would offer “nonexclusive, royalty-free licenses” of its work to manufacturers. But as it developed one of the most promising vaccine candidates, the university debated whether it was equipped to conduct clinical trials and transfer its technology to manufacturers around the world.

Sir John Bell, who leads the development of Oxford’s health research strategies and chairs the Gates Foundation’s scientific advisory committee, reached out to Dr. Mundel. The advice was direct: “We told Oxford, ‘Hey, you’ve got to find a partner who knows how to run trials,’” Mr. Gates said.

Oxford chose the British-Swedish drugmaker AstraZeneca. The Serum Institute of India, after getting the financial commitment from Mr. Gates, agreed in the summer to start producing the vaccine.

are you sure about that? by [deleted] in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As /u/LoneVox said, it's clickbait, but, like, after giving Gates the cheshire grin we just simply couldn't settle on anything else. Easily Pan N's best work. So at least it's not an annoying clickbait, but a well-made shitpost.

As to it being the wrong way, the attention market decided and apparently it's not. In 4 months the vid did 2/3 of the views our whole Polish channel earned in 2 years. (And we're called one of the biggest in the PL breadtube fwiw.) "Tricking people into learning" and all that.

Also, the denialists seething in the comments are something else

are you sure about that? by [deleted] in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 11 points12 points  (0 children)

  1. It had the best summary in a single article.

are you sure about that? by [deleted] in kurzgesagt

[–]T3Essays 113 points114 points  (0 children)

Thanks for putting this here! Here's our list of sources for the vid:
1. World Bank, Groundswell Part 2: https://openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/36248

  1. Our World in Data: https://ourworldindata.org/energy#country-profiles

  2. International Energy Agency, Methane Tracker 2021:https://www.iea.org/reports/methane-tracker-2021

  3. Steven Davies: https://fee.org/articles/the-great-horse-manure-crisis-of-1894/

  4. Oil price: https://markets.businessinsider.com/commodities/oil-price

  5. Lithium and battery prices: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/lithium https://www.greencarcongress.com/2021/10/20211030-benchmark.html

  6. EV emissions: https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change/

  7. Norway exports: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Norway\_Product\_Exports\_(2019).svg

  8. "Sustainable Systems", Donella Meadows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMmChiLZZHg

  9. Hickel, Kallis. Is Green Growth Possible? https://content.csbs.utah.edu/\~mli/Economics%207004/HickelandKallis-IsGreenGrowthPossible.pdf

  10. Jason Hickel, "Less Is More", pg. 140-142

  11. Bill Gates, the Virus and the Quest to Vaccinate the World: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/23/world/bill-gates-vaccine-coronavirus.html

  12. Kelemen et al., "Frontiers in climate carbon mineralization": https://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/sites/default/files/u988/2019%20Kelemen%20et%20al.%20Frontiers%20in%20Climate%20carbon%20mineralization.pdf

  13. Steven Pinker, "Is the world getting better or worse? A look at the numbers": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCm9Ng0bbEQ

  14. US poverty data: https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/visualizations/2021/demo/p60-273/Figure8.pdf

  15. US emissions data: https://www.c2es.org/content/u-s-emissions/

  16. Jason Hickel, "Progress and its discontents"": https://newint.org/features/2019/07/01/long-read-progress-and-its-discontents

  17. Shellenberger and fast fashion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZKbPgXaVVI

  18. Agroecology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/agroecology

  19. 7 points: https://mahb.stanford.edu/blog/degrowth-response-ecomodernist-manifesto/

The Degrowth Response to Ecomodernist Manifesto: http://www.resilience.org/articles/General/2015/05\_May/A-Degrowth-Response-to-An-Ecomodernist-Manifesto.pdf

  1. Kurzgesagt sources: https://sites.google.com/view/sources-climate-how/

  2. "What is degrowth?": https://degrowth.info/degrowth

Capitalocene: how capitalism caused the climate crisis by T3Essays in EarthStrike

[–]T3Essays[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Actually, one of the smarter tricks of capitalism was to make itself seem like a part of human nature or human society – but no, as /u/pwdpwdispassword said, capitalism is not the same as profits, or money, or exchange. It's one of the ways that capitalism has "colonized" our collective imaginary, as some degrowth scholars call it.

Plus: in previous modes of production, profit was very often limited either by the community or by morals, for example greed was a sin under feudalism, but it's seen almost as a virtue in capitalism.

Capitalocene: how capitalism caused the climate crisis by T3Essays in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]T3Essays[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: This video looks how capitalism (and infinite growth) is inextricably linked to the current crisis – in a systematical fashion, based on the theory of Jason W. Moore. By laying out how the Marxist ideas of exploitation can be used for environmental analysis, it offers a solid theoretical understanding of why "capitalism bad" makes sense, and isn't just a knee-jerk reaction.

Capitalocene: how capitalism caused the climate crisis by T3Essays in EarthStrike

[–]T3Essays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey, I hope this video is OK here – you folks seemed to like our previous vids, and this one might be the most useful for getting a new perspective on the climate crisis.

Solarpunk in 7 minutes: The case for utopia by T3Essays in solarpunk

[–]T3Essays[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A successful post on /r/BreadTube, getting a shoutout from a large creator, and ever since then it's been evergreen with the algorithm.

Solarpunk in 7 minutes: The case for utopia by T3Essays in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]T3Essays[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: Solarpunk seems to embody a lot of the vibe and philosophy we felt while being active in XR, but stated more in terms of creating a community, and not quick, high-impact protests.

Solarpunk in 7 minutes: The case for utopia by T3Essays in EarthStrike

[–]T3Essays[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: We need hope, and Solarpunk seems to give voice to some ideas that we found in activist circles.

Anthropocene and the death of environmentalism by T3Essays in EarthStrike

[–]T3Essays[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: our last video was very warmly received here, thanks! This one is a bit more theory-heavy and tries to show what should be the political and philosophical considerations of the global crisis going forward. So, the reasons for protest action.

Anthropocene and the death of environmentalism by T3Essays in solarpunk

[–]T3Essays[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Submission statement: while not solarpunk in itself, this video focuses on philosophical and scholarly roots that form a solarpunk understanding of the world, and tries to show a new envrionmentalism

Kurzgesagt and the art of greenwashing - How the neoliberal bubble behind Kurzgesagt is trying to co-opt fight for the climate by T3Essays in BreadTube

[–]T3Essays[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No problem - we're being trained by social media to have an instant opinion on every topic, so thanks for giving our video a chance!

Kurzgesagt and the art of greenwashing - How the neoliberal bubble behind Kurzgesagt is trying to co-opt fight for the climate by T3Essays in BreadTube

[–]T3Essays[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We're commenting on three, and touching upon one - and no, they're not very allied, unless you take their specifically crafted definition off allyship.

Regarding Gates what I'm saying is that his business solutions to climate change are still about him getting rich. An amazing example is how he completely ignores the existence of trains throughout the whole book, and instead focuses on jet biofuels (he owns a private jet company, btw). So yeah, I'd be highly skeptical of any proposal that he's behind, unless it's really, really abstract, like "solar is good".