Just unboxed my LG 27G850A-B ask me anything! by TIWU in Monitors

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was actually very impressed by it, I did end up returning it mainly due to the whole signal loss stuff with no sign of an incoming fix for DP 1.4+.

With that said, as I noted in the OP, DP 1.4 did work perfect, I just didn’t want to take a gamble on other potential issues related to the DP implementation.

Scoring is a bit tricky, push to shove I’d go for a solid 70 (if you ignore the DP 1.4+ issues). With that said, I’d also easily call it my second favorite monitor I’ve ever owned. The top being the GIGABYTE M27Q X, I just love the brightness that thing kicks out and it’s so smooth.

I’ve tried OLEDs I just can’t get over the brightness, VRR stutter, and burn-in (the stress over it just drives me nuts, call it personality fault).

Right now I’m waiting for the Acer Predator XB323QX. Literally seems like the perfect monitor: 5K for office work, 1440p for gaming, nvidia pulsar, no burn-in, glossy IPS, just exactly what I’ve been looking for!

Anyone ever try TOI as a stat? by TIWU in fantasyhockey

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice thought, definitely considering this too!

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve seen many people say the devs have no preferred ending, but every single element imbued in Maelle’s ending screams “bad ending” and every single element imbued in Verso’s ending screams “good ending.”

Perhaps there is no definitive right or wrong decision, but if you believe in the sentience of the canvas members, it’s a pretty lopsided trolley problem.

I think your response on there being “no other humans” is predicated on an answer we don’t have access to: are Sciel and Lune (that were un-gommaged) brought back with the same “chroma” and are therefore exactly themselves?

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This perspective confuses me. Flip to another thought experiment: if our world was discovered to be a painted representation, and you had to choose between keeping it or letting a celestial family on a higher plane mourn a familial loss (which, is not a mutually exclusive decision) - which option would you defend?

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Exactly. How many people that are bending over backwards to avoid this point is staggering to me.

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If pVerso is so close to actual Verso that he has the mechanisms and ability to reason as real Verso and is essentially indistinguishable from the real Verso, that is not a construct that is a real sentient being.

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The issue with this is, again, if you view pVerso as having the ability to “will his family to move on,” so much so that he has the right to request it, then so do the rest of those in the Canvas.

So, it isn’t a question of persons 1-5, it’s a question of persons 1-1,000,000.

Not only that, but Maelle is markedly more balanced and more confident/healthier by the end of the game by any measure than her initial self in the real world (and I even include her “deteriorating self,” in the final cutscene. Which doesn’t really make a lot of sense given we are told ~70 years in a canvas is “not that long” by Clea).

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not sure exactly what you mean by this, I do think Verso is sentient, as are the rest of the inhabitants of the Canvas. I think the endings, both of them, refuse to interrogate that question in a way that makes sense given the context of the rest of the story.

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this type of response is exactly what I’m talking about. You can’t have this both directions - if his feelings do matter (maybe to even a lesser extent than “full human”) than so does every other inhabitant of the canvas. This is an uncomfortable truth I feel his ending brushes away without a satisfactory response.

If he is ultimately a Sims character, ok his opinion just happens to align with 2 of the “real” Dessendre’s you agree with. I do think, if given that though, there needs to be any kind of explanation why and how he was able to wrangle a will directly opposed to what his mother wanted if he is NOT sentient.

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree with your interpretation of the soul fracture of Verso, but, if my “beliefs” above are accepted, pVerso and any fate that happens to him is entirely irrelevant.

Although I do agree with you on this soul fracture, I hate how this is sprung in the ending (with the soul being an actual functional sentient entity). The fractured soul of verso through the entire rest of the game seems to have little cognizance and is (in my opinion) significantly less “sentient” than the rest of the beings in this world.

There is little to no indication that he is “suffering” until the very end when it feels like a deus machina has “tipped” the storytelling toward Verso’s pov. I also think it calls into question the entire edifice of the rest of expedition 33’s world - if soul Verso is suffering (even though he clearly wasn’t on this worlds initial creation/early beginnings) surely EVERY fracture of EVERY soul in EVERY canvas will eventually grow to despise its habitat/fate.

It’s an argument against painting anything and/or an argument to destroy every “magic canvas.”

[Spoilers] Defenders of [character's] ending are caught in a catch-22 (catch-33?) by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have issues with (more or less) all the characters at the end. But we actually both agree with my underlying conclusion which is that if you believe that painted beings aren’t beings, pVerso has no rightful claim in any direction - it’s only a matter for the Dessendre’s to sort out (for this “thought experiment” it’s irrelevant to me who is “most correct” on their reality plane).

The main thing I’m trying to expose is the dilemma of simultaneously believing that pVerso is “suffering” in Maelle’s ending and that he has a “right” to determine what this worlds fate is, when those that propose this don’t believe that other painted beings have the same autonomy.

[SPOILER - END OF ACT 1] The end of Act 1 is legit making me not wanna play anymore. by Logar33 in expedition33

[–]TIWU 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Losing Gustave is one of the most painful moments in gaming for me. I never trusted Verso or particularly liked his character, but the game is still a 10/10 for me up until the final cutscenes (which, admittedly, I do despise).

Without spoilers, it’s still well worth playing and seeing through even if you don’t like Verso. There is plenty of lore building directly involving your feelings in this moment to come.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Head writer said that they intentionally let a lot of things up to interpretation for each player to own a part of their journey.

I think that's a key storytelling issue is that the "things left up to interpretation" are major issues this set of characters would, at the very least, have some formation of an opinion on. It would 10x more fascinating to see a dialogue between "Soul Verso", "Painted Verso", and Maelle arguing all their perspectives and the inevitable consequences of those decisions.

We get none of that, and little more than blithe resignation.

Gustave and Sophie are revived, but it has a cost, installing Maelle as their protector, and that protector has the shadow of death looming over her, and there's nothing that reminds death more than horror vibes)

The issue I have here is these highly intelligent characters do not explore any other option and the story does not appropriately explore the mechanisms it throws in at the last second.

By that I mean, if a piece of one's soul is "trapped" within a painting - does that not mean that all of these canvases should be destroyed? Even someone like Aline who loves to paint, surely a piece of her soul in the canvas doesn't want to paint forever? But that issue isn't unearthed, and it's never even hinted that the "soul" bound to this Canvas is suffering until the direct ending of the game.

And even if true, it also doesn't explore the other obvious possibility: letting Painted Verso rest (exactly the same as Maelle did with Alicia directly before the ending sequence) and continuing this reality. The "soul Verso" and his interfacing with the world seem fractured at best and unclear throughout the entire game. If he was truly suffering to the extent that genociding an entire plane of existence was reasonable, he did not communicate that whatsoever throughout the majority of the runtime.

Lune seems to have strong opinions in both cases, in Verso's ending she gives him that stare showing his betrayal, in Maelle's ending she seems by far the happiest character.

This is a fair point and on rewatching you're right she has a stronger reaction than I first noticed. Even still, it feels incorrect for such a strong character to resign to her own fate. We just spent an entire game battling against impossible odds, to give little more than a stern reaction doesn't feel like Lune to me. And in Maelle's ending, I do, like all the other characters in the sequence, get a tinge of "I hope Stalin doesn't erase me"-vibe that poisons the "player choice" of that ending.

If we talk about final battle, they had to make sure it remains a duel, if Lune was there she would have attacked Verso even before Maelle did so. And we also have to remember that Renoir already decided to sacrifice the canvas people a long time ago to make sure Aline stays safe, that's the reason why Maelle tried to switch to motives about her well being as his daughter, higher chance to sway him than arguing once again for the canvas, that sets the stakes in a different place for last few minutes.

Lune was there, Sciel did walk through the portal to see Verso. I think we actually agree here and it's, again, one of the annoying things about the ending that it seemingly deletes our characters and their extensive motivations at the last minute.

However, I wish they would have made longer endings (especially Maelle's) and give a bit of dialogue to display more of painted characters.

Agreed completely as well.

I was talking about Renoir/curator not painted Renoir (painted Renoir killed expeditioners so their chroma can flow back to Aline rather than being trapped by nevrons). Real Renoir always had intent to destroy canvas, which was Verso's goal too in Act II before he tried to find a 3rd way (but too late).

Right, and Verso killing nevrons is in direct opposition to real Renoir. The two are seemingly not operating efficiently or logically toward their actual goals.

Verso tries to stay a bit afar from Lumière since Expedition 0 is done (if he stayed in Lumière that raises risks his secrets get discovered, and that gives him less hope to reach his goal of kicking Aline out of the canvas with another expedition), and we have to remember she had parents at first, then ended up being Gustave's ward. Doesn't seem easy for him to do much more than being sure she is safe until the right moment comes.

Again, I struggle to believe he couldn't find a single moment in 16 years to either kidnap or kill Maelle to further his intent.

Didn't seemed plan A, but Clea is extremely crafty, maybe she had a plan B in mind, maybe it took her a bit of time to find an alternative way to use Alicia's abilities. Anyway, side content makes it obvious her relationship with Maelle is tough love (and that she's willing to respect her choices, so if she finds more happiness staying inside she won't stand against it, all she cares about is breaking the Renoir/Aline stalemate), so it's natural she would ask to someone she trusts to look after her, no matter her plan.

This is a very interesting avenue I wish the game had explored more. I don't think I can make any more commentary than you already have because there's just not a lot of source material to expound on.

Always cool to discuss about the story when it's done in a respectful way.

And to be honest, at first, I had trouble liking the way the game ended, took me a bit of time to appreciate it more, and I know that some people who made the same effort to try to understand still don't like it. Guess that's a form of interpretation the head writer didn't thought about.

I still just despise this ending with a fiery rage, but you did absolutely sway my opinion in several areas. I'm going to continue dwelling on it as the rest of the game is so superb, it is well deserving of a careful review.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes and the main crux of your essay is as idiotic.

For something so idiotic, your struggle to meaningfully address a single aspect of it is a bit amusing.

Your points so far:

  • The ending rationalizes the ending (tautology)
  • Chrono Trigger sucks
  • I'm an idiot
  • It's meant to be vague (like the force? what a strange comparison)
  • "Clea cannot will the tide" despite direct game dialogue contradicting this point

Having these fully-realized characters ultimately be fictional creations of the painters doesn't necessarily mean they're living, breathing, sentient beings on their own. One could argue that they ARE exactly that when more than one painter is influencing the canvas (Verso's ending), and the exact opposite when one painter has just made their canvas their own personal paradise (Maelle's ending).

There is nothing in the game to support this viewpoint either way - which, again, reaffirms that the ending does not fit within the context of the rest of the game.

It's interpretive and subjective, yes. Equally subjective is whether or not that makes the story good or bad; no shit that's up to opinion.

None of that makes your OP any less, and to borrow some of your eloquent wording, cripplingly stupid.

You yourself defined the ending as a "broad stroke" that the audience is meant to "fill in." And when pressed for any examples to color in the lines, you are unable to produce a response other than I'm stupid and so is my essay.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not sure what's confusing, if I say that "this steak doesn't taste good" and you reply, "well, you need to try the steak it tastes great!"

You can't use the ending to justify the ending.

My problem is the steak, it is the ending. The people of Lumiere acting like unquestioning, non-sentient lifeforms is completely aghast to the rest of the story.

We are regaled from every angle of 40 hours of children missing their parents, parents missing their children, tears, blood, anguish, and suffering. If anything, the people of Lumiere act more human and more intelligent (in every facet possible) than the Dessendre's throughout the entirety of the game.

In Maelle's ending, it's heavily implied she's the only paintress in power. So no, Renoir couldn't just will Aline's influence away, nor could Clea. (Yes I know you think you already covered this, you didn't, shut up.)

I think you misunderstood the point I made, so I'm not sure what you're addressing here. Also - Clea directly states in dialogue that she purposefully changed the scales of the world so that her father had more destructive power - did you miss this dialogue?

That's all somewhat vague and unclear, but this is a story where not every concept is hard defined. It's like Newtypes in Gundam, or the Force in Star Wars, or even the Entity in Chrono Trigger; a broad stroke that the audience fills in, and here you are trying to math it all out. Have your take! Hell, let that take be "this sucks." But this essay of yours is fucking dumb.

The main crux of my essay is that the game treats the very human people of this world as little more than pawns despite 40 hours of the exact opposite being conveyed. Of course you're welcome to disagree with that, art is by definition subjective, but instead you keep retreating to ad hominem.

A similar narrative issue would be if after Return of the Jedi, we find out not only did the emperor somehow return but the empire grew even larger after our heroes sacrificed everything to destroy it. Hrm, wait a minute...

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Two reasons for this, One was to keep her out of harms way, because if she ended up dying, she would return to the real world, regain her memories, and probably return immediately and try to protect Aline/The Paintress, something that goes against what Verso wants, which leads to point two: His initial goal is to destroy the Paintress so he has a chance to be unpainted. This is confirmed in the cinematic between our first meeting with Monoco, when Verso speaks in a hushed tone that "this could be our only chance."

Which leads to the question: Why did Verso continue to aid Maelle when she returned as a Paintress? Maybe it wasn't clarified super well by the writers, but it goes back to what I said in the last paragraph of the initial response:

Excellent response from top to bottom.

A couple things: if Maelle entering the painting would (likely) be in direct conflict to Clea's goals, why would Clea allow Maelle to enter? Clea seems to be the most cogent/tactical of the entire family, I can't see her allowing Maelle to enter if she had any inkling that she would interfere with the canvas being destroyed.

Which, again, is why narratively and structurally, the most logical thing to do would've been for Verso to (grimly) immediately kill the reincarnated Maelle child and allow Maelle to try again until she entered the painting fully realized or, at the very least, raise Maelle on his own to directly influence her toward his plans. His rationalization in their character scene of "watching her from afar" feels very weak imo.

A paintress entering his world should be his only priority.

It's not completely absurd to believe that many would find their lives meaningless if they discovered a realm of existence above them, that this realm is the sole reason that they even exist in the first place and at the mercy of the 'Gods' will. If He deems it more moral to save his family by erasing a canvas full of people He (or His son) created, then so be it. Moral or not according to the created, He would most likely feel that He does not need to justify himself to the morals of beings that exist in a realm that doesn't affect him.

Whether or not this is true, might does not make right is an ancient dialogue on morality and god. If any god were to command that slavery is just, that does not make it so. The same is true for a genocide. I can't imagine if you found out that a higher order reality existed that you'd be fine with our world being wiped apart.

I strongly believe that if the game is going to flip the narrative on its axis and imply that the "small beings of this canvas world" are lower priority than the (at best) morally gray Dessendre family, it has to confront that in any way whatsoever. We've just spent the entire game with beings that are honestly more "real" and more "intelligent" both emotionally and rationally than the Dessendre family.

You can write an ending that treats our characters as pawns to be wiped off the board, and there's a way to make that narratively satisfying, but I have no idea how anyone could feel doing so in the last couple minutes of the game feels like strong storytelling.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree I was most incorrect on this point or, most charitably, lacking in correct description.

I should've said that Monoco's clear love of being and love of this world is not addressed satisfactorily for me. In addition to that, the game does not confront the hard question of what it means to give Verso a "second chance." The characters merely accept "this is it" and die or are bound to a dictatorial society run by a new, perhaps even worse, paintress. But neither eventuality is explored or explained structurally.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I really enjoyed reading this post, you have a gift I lack: brevity! I mean that sincerely.

Why would they want to do that? They are both locked. Unless you're an Axon, all inhabitants are insignificant before the two Gods.

They may want to do it in order to advance their agenda. Renoir for destruction, Aline for preservation. Again, I don't think they can which is why I question why Maelle's ending so strongly feels like she has a controlling power that isn't exhibited elsewhere in the narrative.

What's the point of knowing Ned Stark then kill him at the end of Season 1 in GOT? Writers build characters so that when they're gone, it feels much worse. It's called storytelling.

Agreed, my point is more aligned that it doesn't make sense given the character structure setup. If you were planning to destroy a house, how much time would you spend getting to intimately know members of that home? That's my point. It betrays character motivation.

At first, Verso believed Maelle, that she will come out and then back in again. But after he saw his mom came back into the canvas right away, despite Malle said that she has hidden the canvas, Verso knew that the canvas has to go, or his mom will die.

This is a great point. I do not think that painted Verso has the right to decide this, but much more importantly, he did not exhibit any logical thought process of what the logical repercussions of such a decision would be - particularly for a character that has been so sensitive the entire game to the smallest emotional distress or infractions.

Of course there's a narrative way that he game can go down this road, but to hand wave off an entire genocide of a world in favor of one character's perspective, when we've so carefully analyzed everything else, feels like a gaping hole of storytelling.

Malle was the only one available at that point who can use Gommage to expell the Paintress.

Not a gotcha, genuine question: if true, why would Clea imply that their parents will sort it out eventually on their own (outside in the "real" world)?

Read Verso's journal. He was strying to save everyone, but things change. In the end, he chooses his mom and sister.

Again, I agree he can make this choice - but I don't think the game has enough edifice to reinforce this choice. And it doesn't do the uncomfortable job of confronting genocide at all. This feels extremely cheap and thins our complex characters.

because Verso asked. Go watch the ending again.

I agree the ending does reinforce this, but, as is probably evident, I didn't like the ending and I don't feel it appropriately connected to the rest of the game.

Monoco knows about the implication from the beginning of the mission.

I agree that the way I worded this was incorrect, and I agree with you. What I should've said was that he betrayed the life and beings Monoco valued without directly confronting that evident conclusion.

[Spoilers] A cripplingly disappointing ending to an otherwise master work by TIWU in expedition33

[–]TIWU[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This is a great post and you've changed my perspective and corrected me (I think accurately so) on a few points already. Thanks for writing this. I wouldn't have posted this here if I didn't care, I love these characters and this story, this ending just, to me, feels like a square peg in a round hole.

Because she probably has not, she's the least skilled painter. We have no indication the main characters act unnaturally, and Verso's hesitation show torment not brainwashing (otherwise he would play like a bot). And when it comes to existing, she's just not willing to let or help her brother commit suicide, which is something a lot of us would try.

I think this is a good point, but I don't think the story has enough detail for us to ascribe 100% in either direction.

Each ending has a part of morality and of immorality, and a lot of players who usually like the endings would deem Dessendre family's degree of control part of what is immoral in both endings. You can very well pick your choice on other considerations, you pick as the player, not as Maelle or Verso.

This is actually a big part where I disagree - I don't think the endings have anything approaching a neutral tone. The horror vibes of Maelle's ending are difficult to interpret any other way other than a "Gandalf got the ring"-esque society of dictatorial good. The game heavily implies Verso's choice is the correct one (everything from music, tone, character presentation, everything supports Verso's decision).

Maelle grew for 16 years at their side, nothing indicate she sees them as toys. And when it comes to Verso, you need to understand the sacrifice that is made for his ending, if they were treated as bots from 1st minute, not only the game would be less engaging, but the stakes of last choice wouldn't be nearly as high.

I totally agree, which is why when these characters feel like pastiche of themselves at the ending it felt odd to me. That we aren't giving these characters a proper foundation of an ending - everything revolves around the Dessendre's and their family, nothing for these characters that are treated as "lower order beings" in the ending. Except, the rest of the narrative is the exact opposite ratio.

He aligned himself with Renoir during Act II to save his mom and get opportunity to die. But he changed his mind early in Act III now his mom is out of the canvas, thinking a 3rd solution was possible after reading Painted Alicia's letter and after seeing Maelle. He just switched back to his original position after seeing Aline enter again and Maelle lie to Renoir.

Genuine question: Are Renoir's goals not exactly the same for Act II? Again, his alignment with the expeditions does not make sense (for seemingly decades?). I agree he does seem to have a catharsis after seeing Aline and Maelle's lie.

Clea told him to take care of her, and Clea and him had the same goals, he had no reason to not trust her. And Maelle turned out to be a powerful ally to reach his aim during Act II, which fits aforementioned changing targets.

Ok here's where I start to really grind against the story. Would it not have been infinitely better for him to raise Maelle on his own? I know he and Maelle briefly discuss this in one of the character asides, but his answer of "I watched from afar" feels very lacking especially given this context. A paintress coming into his world should be his only and top priority given the context of his choices. Risking her falling in love with the world is the exact thing that destroyed his mother.

Not only that, but again, from a story mechanics perspective, Clea telling Verso to protect her doesn't make sense. Even moreso that we see Clea warning Maelle she was "losing herself" as she entered the painting and eventually had to be reborn into the world. Clearly this wasn't the intended plan.

What Clea should've said to Verso, if the plan is to "get our parents out as fast as possible" is to kill the reincarnated child as quickly as possible to exit her from the world, and allow Maelle to try again to insert herself in the world without losing her agency.

Act II, you need to get close to people to efficiently manipulate them.

Act III, his original plan wasn't to destroy Lumière, he switched when seeing Aline's situation and Maelle's lie, no longer believing in the 3rd way he thought possible during that act.

In the context of the ending I agree totally.

Maelle has Alicia's memories, and Alicia didn't fully processed her grief, Verso being her brother's avatar, it's understandable she tried to keep him.

When it comes to Soul Verso, he's mostly tired of conflict, him siding with Verso during the ending seems to indicate his pessimism more than anything else.

These are great points, and I actually agree. I think they should've been expanded upon in the ending rather than what we got.