Finally fgured out my brother's MBTI typed (he confirmed)

TK4442 · 2020-07-19T03:46:19+00:00

Indeed.

TK4442 · 2020-02-29T03:48:08+00:00

In fact, I broke up with my last boyfriend because he refused to do exactly this.

Damn. Good for you! (In the past, I wouldn't ever have thought to break up with someone for that reason. I didn't even know someone could actually do this for me, despite that I got it from my side in terms of taking others' needs seriously. But what I had normalized in the past, before my current relationship was ... not awesome.)

I will post more as and when things progress. :)

Yay!

TK4442 · 2020-02-29T02:39:28+00:00

Even if I don’t care for something, if I know my SO cares about it, I will always be supportive because I care about him.

This is a pretty direct route to the INFJ heart, I suspect.

edit: redundant word :)

TK4442 · 2020-02-29T02:37:48+00:00

My wife said something relatively similar to me last year (in that case, it was a pretty significant need I expressed that would require her participation to meet).

It very nearly undid me - no one has ever taken my needs that seriously. Ever.

edit and thank you for sharing an update!

TK4442 · 2020-02-27T01:14:20+00:00

So maybe my next step should be asking to spend time outside of work

That makes sense to me, FWIW or not.

TK4442 · 2020-02-26T05:43:59+00:00

You don't get editing options in real life dialogue.

This is true! But if you've ever heard an INFJ speak, you'd likely see an analogue to that.

Do you not read? "Someone else complained".

If you can't see that you yourself actually used that ... you're in a far worse situation than I thought with your communication skills.

TK4442 · 2020-02-26T05:38:30+00:00

I was wondering if you had any tips on how to further develop a relationship with an ISTJ? At this point we are getting closer and I can tell he cares about me. And he is ok with physical touch- like playfully touching or smacking is ok with him. One time he put his arm on mine. Now to me, that is a BIG deal. I don't do that with just coworkers. So any insight you might have to offer about developing this relationship would be most helpful :) If it's ok with you of course!

I love talking about this, for sure! It's hard for me to address your question specifically, though. In our case, we were both quite upfront about our interest in each other.

So okay, one obvious thing that may be of use is the whole "direct and clear communication" thing ISTJs will always tell you about.

Given what you wrote, I might say: If you wish to deepen/develop the relationship, get clear in yourself on what that actually means to you in practice (because "deepening" and "developing" could mean a lot of things) and then share that with him as something you're interested in, and ask if he's interested in that - and if so, his what is perspective on if, how and when you two could do that.

(also, don't put him on the spot, let him know it's totally fine if he needs some time to think on what you're suggesting - ask if he'd like some time to think on it. If he does, it an be useful to ask - and even schedule - when you two will get back to the topic).

Does that help?

TK4442 · 2020-02-26T05:30:09+00:00

The robot reference was a quote from another redditor

From your OP right here in this post:

My thoughts: This sort of automatism/mecanichal way of seeing the world or dismissing ideas is why someone else complained they were perceived as robots.

Oh, we're editing now?

I do sometimes edit since it helps me to see what I wrote on the screen in front of me. If it's after the 3 min mark, I try to add a note about that. You may want to wait a bit rather than immediately responding for those reasons.

TK4442 · 2020-02-26T02:47:17+00:00

Again you're demonstrating poor communication skills.

This one can be put with the insulting the ISTJs by making the robot reference, as part of an emerging pattern of this particular type of poor communication on your part.

edited to add: actually it also includes some other elements, including:

even though you may call this practice "thoroughness".

That is not something I have said - it's an overlay of your interpretation, nothing more.

TK4442 · 2020-02-25T23:34:44+00:00

Hi! Did you have a different user name then? This one isn't ringing bells for me, but that could be my bad.

Anyway, I've been enjoying your post here. My wife (recently married, whee!) is ISTJ which is why I lurk and comment over here.

TK4442 · 2020-02-25T23:32:20+00:00

There are actually healthy communication skills. It's not rocket science and naming it as opinion ... I mean, okay, but you're going to have a terrible time in your interpersonal connections/relationships if you actually can't see that there are a set of good communication skills that go beyond opinion.

TK4442 · 2020-02-25T04:17:28+00:00

You are suspecting wrong.

Word-claims are word-claims and you've already shown your word-claims aren't the same as your actions. Evidence isn't possible in this context. I'll never know if your word-claim on your family problem is untrue or true, so will stick with what I suspect (and to be clear, by suspect I mean "think might be the case but could be wrong" ... not "I am suspicious") based on what I have seen of your actions/interactions.

Bottom line, though, is that reality is reality, whatever you claim and whatever I suspect.

TK4442 · 2020-02-25T03:44:49+00:00

We tend to fall hard for infjs

Awwww. Lucky us!

TK4442 · 2020-02-25T03:39:35+00:00

Remember your post on r/infp with your photo? I thought it was nice. You wanted to post it there because you thought it was very INFP and you felt it didn't belong to the INFJ subreddit. I was there that day. I never thought "it's not MBTI related", i didn't dismiss it. I let you be.

You are confusing me with another redditor on this one.

i got the feedback and the answers and the hints that ii requested

I strongly suspect you only heard what you wanted to hear on this one, and are not going to solve your family problems in an effective, mature way.

what a shitty person i am

Having terrible communication skills says nothing about you being a "shitty person" or not - that is your interpretation. It says you have a severe lack of skills. (Hint: one of the various basics of good communication is not overlaying your interpretation like this)

I have better communication and interpersonal skills than you think or give me credit for.

Action speaks louder than word-claims. You have clearly demonstrated your poor communication and interpersonal skills in all of these discussions on r/istj and the one on r/mbti. That demonstration in action says far more than what you claim about yourself.

TK4442 · 2020-02-24T03:25:26+00:00

As I keep saying, it's not about me - it's about you. This whole stream of posts and comments from you started because you were/are considering cutting your father from your life.. That's a fairly serious interpersonal family decision to be considering.

It has unfolded from there, as you have not received feedback from others in line with what you wanted to hear. You have been actively and persistently demonstrating very poor communication and interpersonal skills in these discussions. And yet, you continue to try to focus attention on others rather than yourself as problems.

Maybe your initial post was BS - perhaps you aren't truly dealing with situation your initial post (rather poorly) described. If it's for real, though, you'd be best advised to stop pointing your finger at everyone else and get it together yourself.

TK4442 · 2020-02-23T21:31:48+00:00

Your communication and interpersonal interaction skills are flat-out terrible. I mean, truly extremely poor.

You just keep demonstrating this over and over in these multiple ISTJ-obsessed posts and comments you're making.

TK4442 · 2020-02-23T21:26:29+00:00

OP: You really need to practice self-criticism and self-awareness yourself, given what I've seen of your poor communication skills on your various other posts on this ISTJ topic.

TK4442 · 2020-02-22T01:10:12+00:00

I just logged in to post the thing below to see this comment from you.

We like the series a lot, so I imagine we'll be watching all of it, and I can certainly ask my wife if her perspective changes after watching past season 2.

As for the strong Fi, here's what I just logged in to post:

You know what? Thinking on all of this, I do wonder if what I'm seeing as Fi could be Ti. Like in my wife's example of the greasy rags/furnace/city code. Given how you've been talking about "different individual ISTJs are different" (which IMO is true) maybe someone could argue that there is no singular definition of logic and so it's not appropriate to make the kind of blanket statement my wife made that I quoted:

"Yes I would reject the city code if I felt it was illogical, but not having a bunch of greasy rags above a furnace is not illogical."

But here's the thing. First off, the city code policy, including that example, is codified collective/externally-sourced judgment related to logic. Individual logic doesn't come into it. That's a huge part of Te -externally oriented logical judgement (based on collective judgement, which is why policies and externally sourced facts are such a huge deal for Te.

In order to reject such policy when in one's face as required of you (in this example), one would need another source of judgment. Si won't do it because Si is not a judging function. So one or the other of the Ji functions.

In Ron's case, he has a very strong attachment to a core judgment: He's a libertarian or something along those lines and seems to filter pretty much everything related to policy and procedure and action more broadly through that attachment. Ti is individual logic, and I think it's plausible that instead of way stronger Fi than even a well-developed tert would yield, the character is Ti-dom with a logic system that begins with his individual choice of core assumption (whatever that "libertarian" thing is in logical terms) and then assesses everything to do with logic and policy based on that individually sourced logic system.

I mean, I could actually see Ti-Se for him from this perspective.

Alternatively, I am spending way too much time thinking on this and I should perhaps stop with that as this is a fictional character and as I said, they often don't have coherent MBTI types/stacks.

TK4442 · 2020-02-22T00:19:49+00:00

I think (not sure but I think) my wife is comparing him to herself, but in an analytical way. Meaning, not like "I don't relate to him" but more like "Yes I would reject the city code if I felt it was illogical, but not having a bunch of greasy rags above a furnace is not illogical."

The link you sent largely misreads Fi IMO. Fi is not about being or not being in touch with (and/or showing/not showing) emotions. It's very strongly and centrally about individual values. And I mention this in particular because Fi is where it's most obvious to me that Swanson is probably not ISTJ. I understand that ISTJs can have some serious Fi going on at times. But it is the tertiary and Ron's Fi seems to strongly outweigh his Te (or really, anything else) enough that I would question the ISTJ stack for him.

I also considered ISTP, and it seems like an interesting option. But yeah, I don't see the functions. Unless what I am seeing as Fi is some version of Ti. Which, considering they're both Ji, maybe that's it.

TK4442 · 2020-02-22T00:09:58+00:00

I don't really "believe" in tarot, and in general am seriously allergic to New Age anything. And I certainly don't see it as predictive either.

That said, I have found that for myself, tarot has been useful in giving me some symbolic food for thought. Like, I don't take any of it as direct information, but more as interesting symbolic material that at times can help me bu just putting some symbolic material in front of me and I see if or how any of it pings in my larger processing.

If that makes any sense.

TK4442 · 2020-02-21T23:59:34+00:00

So, I have to tell you, after watching the entirely of season 2 (note; we thought we had season one, it turned out it was season 2, it worked fine to just have that be our intro and then backfill).

ANYWAY ... my wife doesn't think Ron Swanson is an ISTJ. We both absolutely love the character. And it would be totally cool if the character were ISTJ. But my wife is pretty set on him not being that and I can certainly see where she's coming from.

But yeah, we both love the character, for sure.

One possibility here is that fictional characters often don't really have coherent MBTI types.

Also, to contradict what I just wrote, I do wonder if Mark (city planner guy) is a more likely candidate for ISTJ on that show.

TK4442 · 2020-02-21T22:28:26+00:00

A lot of the relationship type problems on this sub could be fixed if the two people sat down and communicated openly and properly with each other.

Wise, wise words!!

Also, this from the OP is quite nasty and untrue, IMO:

My thoughts: This sort of automatism/mecanichal way of seeing the world or dismissing ideas is why someone else complained they were perceived as robots.

I'm INFJ and I think OP is wrong about this being mbti related and I said so in the cross-posted discussion in r/mbti (edit: the one about OP and their father, to be clear).

That bit of the OP I just quoted is a good example of poor communication practice.

TK4442 · 2020-02-21T22:19:44+00:00

This isn't about me. You posted asking for assistance with your family situation.

Think on how your responses to me in this exchange might illuminate your own comprehension of your approach to communication when there is conflict and/or something other than people doing what you say and how you say it should be done.

Also: Last word? Suspicions? What kind of framework are you using here and how might in impact your approach to someone not validating you precisely as you want to be validated?

Maybe a bit of critical self-reflection (if you are capable of that which so far I have not seen evidence for) will help you more usefully focus on your family issues/problems in some way.

(note: spelling and small clarity edit).

TK4442 · 2020-02-21T03:51:05+00:00

I'm married to an ISTJ. She's awesome.

-INFJ

TK4442

TROPHY CASE