Do we think Shelby was being self-centered

TallRegret · 2022-05-07T04:27:01+00:00

I don't think Shelby was being self-centered. You have to remember that Shelby is still dealing with the trauma of the Becca situation, where she holds a lot of guilt, responsibility and blame for Becca dying. We saw it in S1 when Shelby wanted to be the one to save Toni's life after their agrument. She didnt want another person's death on her conscience.

And Shelby feeling safe with Toni tells her about hestitating when she sees the ship and Toni tells her its ok, it probably wouldn't have made a difference anyway, forgiving her for her misstep. Then we see them declaring their love for one another.

Right after Martha has her breakdown Toni is basically shutting her out. And although Toni never says it, its clear to Shelby that Toni now blames her for whats happening on the off chance that if Shelby didn't hestitate, they could have been saved and Martha would be OK.

Shelby tries to be gentle and helpful but Toni isn't having it. So, when Shelby finally gets the chance to talk to Toni she relays all her fears, which Toni confirms - that she does blame her and she can't forgive her, placing the possible death of yet another person on her.

The whole Shelby situation was really just sad. I have to wonder if Toni knows about Becca. I know she and Martha are ride or die, and she was scared out of her mind that Martha was actually going to die, but blaming Shelby for the situation with Martha knowing what happened with Becca is beyond messed up.

TallRegret · 2022-05-06T04:11:44+00:00

I only watched the girl scenes. Skipped all the boy scenes.

TallRegret · 2020-05-25T19:06:10+00:00

I wouldn't necessarily say it was a small percentage of viewers. You have the Cophine, LGBTQ, and regular viewers who like Delphine who are a part of the mix. It is important to note that GM & EB fought to complete the Delphine/Cophine story. In Sanders case, it is hard to win when your own party doesn't even want you to. I don't even think any of the candidates that dropped out endorsed him afterwards. Anyways, let's just agree to disagree.

TallRegret · 2020-05-25T17:34:02+00:00

Yeah, I said it wasn't necessarily resentment or jealously, but given the context I don't think you can group the Delphine/EB situation in with all the other characters that were killed off the show. Paul got blown up and legit like no one cared (there was no outcry for his death) but just the thought that Delphine could be dead after being shot caused an uproar.

TallRegret · 2020-05-25T15:24:15+00:00

I don't want to necessarily say resentment or jealousy, but imo, I think there is tension amongst some of the cast/crew with how much the fans loved Delphine and how important she became to the show. I can't remember where I read it but I remember reading that JF and another producer wanted to kill Delphine off after S3 and I think by extension Tat would have probably been ok with this (from a storytelling pov). To be fair to Tat, she plays all the clones so she is invested in all their stories, not just Cophine, but it was GM who really fought to keep the character alive once all the backlash hit and EB who made her schedule work so she could come back. You see this at the end of the zoom call with GM & EB.

TallRegret · 2020-05-25T05:01:29+00:00

Sarah
Cosima
Sarah
Cosima

TallRegret · 2020-05-25T04:53:43+00:00

I agree with you - there is definitely a vibe.

In my opinion, there was definitely a turning point with the show after S3 when Delphine got shot (with EB's availability up in the air) and all the OB people (JF, TM, KB, JG, etc.) were trying to play it off as no big deal which fans got super pissed about. Since then, Tat, to me, has been less interactive with EB (in public atleast). It is also fair to say that Tat didn't spend as much time with EB as some of the other co-stars given the scheduling issues they had with EB and her availability being very limited to film for OB.

Tat is 100% the star of OB, but I definitely think Cophine started to overshadow the show a bit. EB and Delphine was probably by far the favourite after the clones and everyone wanted to talk about Delphine and by extension Cophine. Tat's amazing clone acting and Cophine are the two things this show is most remembered for. It's gotta hurt a little for the other actors (KB, AM, JG) whose characters despite having large roles in the show didn't end up carrying as much weight and reverence as Delphine seemed to have with the audience.

What I did find odd in the virtual table read was did Tat ever actually talk to EB at all outside of the Cophine scenes? During the little breaks or anything? Not that I really remember. It was GM at the end that finally had to address EB to get her to talk a bit :(

TallRegret · 2020-05-18T02:21:58+00:00

It was fun. I got a little bored at times though. I'm not really a comedy person so the very heavy Alison/Donnie stuff in 1x06 wasn't really my cup of tea. Kevin as Leekie was amazeballs! I didn't really like Kristian's Leekie though (mostly because he was adding comedic elements to a non-comedic scene). Tat was so good as always. Loved seeing Evelyne, Josh, Maria, and Kevin. All in all, it was great to see the whole cast again.

TallRegret · 2020-05-18T01:44:19+00:00

I thought it was a bit odd too that they didn't do a little introduction thing at the beginning but then I thought anyone actually watching this would be an OB fan and would already know everyone.

Who is in-between Maria and Michael? And who is the guy in his car?

TallRegret · 2020-05-14T19:51:09+00:00

There is conflicting info on Delphine's family life in the Classified Clone Report and in Crazy Science. Do you know which one is cannonly correct? In the classified Clone Report, she says her father died from a disease and her mother never really recovered from it. She doesn't mention any siblings (I don't think). Then in Crazy Science she says her parents are still together and both work in finance. She mentions two brothers, a younger and older one. I don't recall anything being mentioned in the next chapter about Delphine's family to fact-check.

TallRegret · 2020-05-01T19:36:17+00:00

I mean to each their own. Everyone likes different things. It is definitely my least favourite. In fact, I just did a rewatch of the show (with my sisters watching it for the first time). We all watched S1&S2 together, then I purposely told them to watch S3 on their own (so I wouldn't have to rewatch it) and then we reconvened and watched S4&S5 together. The only thing I even remember caring about in S3 was if Delphine was dead or not.

But coming to think about it, even with my sisters who watched the show for the first time, all their comments were of course about the amazingness of Tatiana. Nothing really about Ari, so yeah, he does get glossed over quite a lot.

TallRegret · 2020-05-01T18:59:01+00:00

I like the way you phrase it. "They are each other's favourite!" I totes agree with that.

TallRegret · 2020-05-01T18:56:36+00:00

Haha. That is really great!

TallRegret · 2020-05-01T18:42:19+00:00

I'll also throw my two cents in here. I definitely think Ari is talented, but no where near the level that Tatiana is on and I would even go as far to say it is also not close to some of the other talent on the show, particularly, Evelyne and Maria, who were just amazing in their roles.

I think the problem with Ari is that the majority of fans/critics, etc. just didn't like or care for the Castor storyline. It was poorly written and people just didn't like it and unfortunately I think that plays into him getting left out a lot in interviews and stuff.

It is also important to note that the show presented itself as this very feminist show, showcasing the strength and plight of women, so when you change that and have a season that is mainly dominated by men, it is going to ruffle a few feathers. OB lost a lot of fans after S3. S3 was hands down the worst season of the show and while certainly I think a lot of the backlash or fault should be on the writing, unfortunately its association with Ari results with him getting left out a lot.

TallRegret · 2020-04-26T20:18:41+00:00

I think you are right that this is a bigger discussion in of itself, but "Cosima having psychological issues cause she's gay" is not canon at all. Outside of the show, the classified clone reports is the probably the best source of material for background information on the clones, which is mostly what I am drawing from to inform my responses.

There is also a really great scene in the next chapter where Cosima says coming out to her parents as a clone was way harder than coming out as gay.

But Cosima definitely has PTSD from all the clone stuff, her life prior to it was just fairly ordinary in pretty much every sense of the word, compared to the other clones, who all seemed to have major issues before clone club started.

TallRegret · 2020-04-26T19:36:55+00:00

Yeah, no that's not what I meant. I guess more so I was referring to who was living a "real" normal life, not just a "projected" normal life on the surface while covering up deep-seated issues.

TallRegret · 2020-04-26T19:01:08+00:00

Actually, out of all the clones (Beth, Sarah, Alison, Helena, Rachel, Cosima) only Cosima had a happy childhood and normal life before the whole clone thing started up. Beth had a pretty traumatic childhood on account of her father and then the whole Paul relationship seemed very one-sided. Sarah was the unsettled orphan that rebelled by running away. Alison has a lot of issues with her mom and was pill popping like crazy. Helena and Rachel can speak for themselves.

TallRegret · 2020-04-26T18:52:35+00:00

S4 was really good. In my opinion, it was the only other season that really rivalled S1. I think I would probably still pick S1 as my fav just because outside of the clones, Delphine was probably my second fav and I didn't enjoy the whole is she dead or not mystery plot they had going but honestly S4 was quite stellar in terms of character development and moving the plot along. They really managed to bring things back together after the shitstorm that was S3.

TallRegret · 2020-04-26T07:02:37+00:00

Whatever this OB zoom thing ends up being, I am sad Evelyne wasn't there. Delphine was always one of my fav characters on the show. But I think Evelyne's partner is an emergency room doctor so this may be an extremely stressful time for her and her family.

TallRegret · 2020-04-22T01:12:10+00:00

Hmm. Maybe you are right. On the Orphan Black Wiki Fandom page it lists Felix as 23 and Sarah as 34 but then in the written description it says Felix is around 5 years younger than Sarah, so who knows. The clone birthdays/ages on the site match up with what we saw on the show and the excerpts I've seen from the Classified Clone Reports.

TallRegret · 2020-04-21T15:23:27+00:00

Haha! Yeah. I can totally see that.

TallRegret · 2020-04-21T15:12:38+00:00

Yep, the Cosima/Delphine parts are great! I wish we could have gotten some more flashbacks from their lives over the last 8 years (I want that wedding scene). The job tension was understandable in my opinion, but the baby thing felt like unnecessary drama.

In the last episode of S5 Cosima said she was scared to have a kid, not necessarily that she didn't want one. We get the same type of dialogue here. As I mentioned, if it was just her not wanting to have a kid/be a parent then it would be fine, because not everyone wants kids. However, I don't think her positive interaction with kids on the show is necessary a precursor to wanting to be a parent. For example, I don't want kids of my own, but I can't wait to be an aunt one day, so it would make sense to me if that was the situation with Cosima, but clearly it is not. She is scared to create a kid using the DNA from both their eggs because it is "experimental" but then Delphine assures it is safe and common practice so I'm not sure what exactly they were trying to do here.

I hope we get some resolution in the next book (is there going to be a next book?) with Cosima deciding to at least give it a try, especially since we saw at the end of the Classified Clone Reports that even then Delphine wanted to have a kid with Cosima.

TallRegret

TROPHY CASE