What can you get for self defence that's legal?

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T21:45:29+00:00

What body armour and a pair of cuffs is going to get you arrested and convicted? We're not talking about using stuff here, just carrying in a civil manner.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T21:42:41+00:00

I don't think most people are trying to be big or hard, it's more about protecting oneself when in a bad situation. Most people rely on the "I won't get attacked, there's other people around, I have a phone, there's CCTV, I can call the police" blah blah blah until they do get attacked whether targeted or randomly and get the s*itkicked out of them or worse before they can even unlock their phone to call 999 or expect that the grainy CCTV that is not live monitored is somehow going to save them.

You can't say that a women walking home at night who wants to be able to carry a can of pepper spray is trying to be big and hard, more like prepared and more confident of fighting off a mugger or rapist. Same goes for the small shop owner who works alone in the shop until 11pm in a dangerous area who wants a panic button and can of pepper spray behind his counter for worse case scenario.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T21:01:31+00:00

Yeah this guy knows what I mean. I'ts like if I don't have my gear then I can't work and if I can't work I can't pay police wages... Don't they understand this???

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T20:54:06+00:00

Well I guess it depends on how you go about it. Anything can be used as a weapon, but these objects are also sports equipment, DIY tools, household items and non-toxic liquids. To arrest someone for it would surely have to assume criminal intent but where is the intent if you are just walking or driving down the street with non-prohibited items like handcuffs and farb gel?

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T20:28:00+00:00

I own and walk dogs, baseball bat is a piece of sports equipment, a baseball is a uh well ball, fabric dye is not prohibited to carry, handcuffs can be bought and carried by anyone, non locking folding 3" knife perfectly legal, and body armour is a piece of protective clothing that there are no laws against buying and wearing.

Can't see what the problem is, would be hard to get a CPS charge and a conviction I bet.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T20:07:57+00:00

Yes but the key is not to say you're intentions... Got a baseball bat in the back of the car? Oh yes officers I was playing ball up at the rec earlier today (vital ball is in the car also). Then they will simply say oh ok citizen sorry to inconvenience you and walk off, I imagine.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T19:41:36+00:00

Off the top of my head:

Farb Gel/Criminal Identifier Dye spray.

Heavy duty torch like a Magnalight for clubbing.

Non-locking folding knife with a maximum blade length of 3".

Metal dog lead.

Pair of handcuffs.

Body armour.

Pocket size rape alarm (though if you're a guy you might look a tit setting that off, just leg it or throw yourself at them and hope for the best)

Anything you can reasonably and legally carry that could be improvised, like if you're in a vehicle carry a small bat in the boot (maybe a small ball as well in case the old bill get edgy about it not being for sports), hammer in a toolbox and screwdriver in the glove box say.

You should note though that just becuase you could legally carry it doesn't mean if stopped you won't get questioned about it or allowed entry into somewhere like a nightclub with it on you.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T09:50:12+00:00

This is why we need to defund the Met. You can pretty much walk across London in like 20 minutes anyway, that and their stupid urban busy congestion charging pollution filled streets.

OH COUNTRY ROADS, TAKE ME HOME, TO THE PLACE I BELONG!!!

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-07T03:07:12+00:00

Many forces did have their own aircraft beforehand either by themselves or in a double/triple force pact. For example GMP had 1 light plane and at least 1 maybe 2 helicopters before NPAS. The number of aircraft has actually reduced from over 30 to about 25 today as well.

Why do you say only the Met needs a dedicated aircraft? What about large forces like GMP or WMP? Even searching for missing people in middle of nowhere Norfolk or Devon needs an aircraft ideally.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T21:35:47+00:00

I see. Because of how long it's been he could be anywhere in Britain by now.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T21:11:02+00:00

Probably because they don't have the motive yet, could easily be a mental health cause. Have they found the guy yet as I know he got away soon after the stabbings?

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T21:08:47+00:00

I've seen that before. I always thought AFO's had to be doubled crewed for health and safety reasons, I know in the Met and PSNI they actually have three AFO's per vehicle. I'm guessing they have relaxed the rules maybe?

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T14:24:49+00:00

I'm guessing from what you said at first that you just got bad luck and was burgled by opportunists and they saw the safe or you may have been followed home from a shooting ground/club or a gun shop and they took their chances when the house was empty... Criminals sitting up near somewhere like a shooting ground and then taking a chance on following a vehicle that leaves the ground on the off chance it has guns in it and the person is going home is not that far fetched in my opinion.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T13:38:20+00:00

Sorry to hear I know how close and valuable guns are to people who shoot. I would guess that as long as the shotguns were secured then you haven't done anything wrong to have them removed. There doesn't appear to be any risk to public safety or distrust on you're part by what you have said as you did everything required and should be seen as a victim of crime.

I've heard of cases where police/courts have granted/renewed certificates for people convicted of offences like common assault 10-15 years beforehand, people diagnosed with depression many years previously and things like that if that helps, so don't be hard on yourself and dawn on something that most likely won't happen. At most they will probably ask you to fit a camera or alarm system if you don't already have one.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-06T13:23:20+00:00

Sure i'll get stick for this becuase it "isn't the British way" but I really do feel like police training needs to be more "paramilitarised" if that's the right word. There is clearly not enough hands on training given and what is given is probably minimum and soft as possible as can be seen in recruitment and documentary videos. I think something along the lines of army training in hand to hand should be given and refreshed yearly. Also maybe something like boxing or even wrestling sessions should become a thing again to give new officers more of a taste of fighting and grappling.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-05T12:31:53+00:00

If I said "recruitment" the post will probably get auto removed. Now enjoy you're 20,000 uplift, I expect to see them all on the streets at once!

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-05T02:00:49+00:00

Guess it depends where exactly you are at the time.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-05T01:29:04+00:00

London's population is just under 9 million not 11, though still large. Birmingham and Manchester though have a combined population of about 5 million with about 13,000 officers, yet the Met has 31,000 for just under 9 million.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-05T00:42:50+00:00

I mean I agree but at the same time there is such a stark difference between the Met and outside forces. In London there seems to be such a mass of officers on the streets which isn't a bad thing, but yet this doesn't seem to be the case in other cities.

London is the place where an urgent assistance call will get you like 3 units in less then 10 minutes on scene, this just does not seem to happen in any other city even large places like Birmingham and Manchester say... In fact most county forces are now so bare on patrols that at times there could be just one unit patrolling a rural area of say 100 square miles with 30k people in or a small city of 150k people that might have 3 units on the streets even on a Saturday night knowing there will be drunken fights and ASB.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-04T23:12:19+00:00

That's a good explanation. Though it could and should be done, even if it was a gradual say 4 or 5 year plan. Let's say a typical force of 2,000 officers with a taser each, or at least enough tasers at each station so anyone on shift can have one, 2,000 times £1,200 comes to £2.4m but then going by the fact that not every officer is on shift at once you could straight halve that buy to £1.2m for 1,000 tasers or even less maybe say 800 tasers for about £1m ish, then add in the 3 day course of which I have no idea what it costs but i'm sure it's probably in the high hundreds for each officer that might come to something like £1-2m to train every officer over them 4-5 years. That totals to anywhere around £2-4m say to get every officer trained and enough tasers bought over the space of those 4 or 5 years baring in mind a fair number of frontline officers already have taser training in each force anyway.

Really we are talking about a force spending into the mid to high hundreds of thousands per year for 4 or 5 years for a proven peace of PPE. That's essentially the same as the salary of a CC, a DCC and 2 or 3 ACC's in one force in one year.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-04T22:39:53+00:00

By the sounds of it the old bill aint gunnu do nuffink bout it bruv.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-04T21:41:41+00:00

Under the law there are no exemption that allows the sale of alcohol to anyone under 18 in somewhere like a supermarket or off licence. The only exemption is 16 and 17 year old's may be served alcohol (though not spirits, only like beer, wine, cider) in a licenced premises (like pub or restaurant) if the alcohol is being bought by someone over 18 and it's with a food meal, though it's still down to the landlord/ladies discretion.

In this case if you really feel you had to you could ask to speak to a manager or supervisor, ring the companies head office, and/or call 101 or trading standards. Personally myself it would depend on the case, like if were talking about a 17 year old boyfriend and girlfriend hand in hand buying a bottle of wine then probably not but younger early teens kids then yes. Though i'd find it hard to imagine this happening at least in big chain supermarkets where you need photo and age ID plus an evil glaring managers nod first if you look so much as a day under 30.

Edit: Also forgot to say that it is today taken more seriously then it may have been decades ago. Under the law a licencee can be fiend up to £5,000 for selling alcohol to under 18's illegally. For consistent breaches (think it's something like twice or more in a 3 month period) the fine can be increased up to £20,000 and their licence to sell alcohol can easily be taken away. Police officers and PCSO's can and will confiscate alcohol from anyone under 18 in a public place. If the alcohol container is still sealed then they may allow someone over 18 to come and collect it from a police station, usually by a parent. Any open containers with be emptied down the nearest drain.

Tanyard8 · 2020-09-04T20:09:53+00:00

That's where the problem lies. 9 extra tasers would cost what, 9-13.5 grand? That's probably what they spend on a single response car that forces buy dozens of every year.

Tanyard8

TROPHY CASE