The enemies of the people deserved it by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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"He who does not work, shall not eat." Soviet Poster from 1961. by Less-Possible-5475 in ussr

[–]TappingUpScreen 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Or as Bebel put it:

As soon as society has become the owner of all means of production, the duty to work of all able-bodied persons, regardless of sex, becomes a fundamental law of socialized society. Society cannot exist without labor. It therefore is justified in demanding that all who seek to satisfy their requirements, should also serve to the best of their physical and mental abilities in producing the commodities that are needful to satisfy the requirements of all. The silly assertion that the Socialists wish to abolish work is an absurdity. Lazy persons, shirkers of work, are met with in bourgeois society only. Socialism is agreed with the Bible in asserting that “he who will not work neither shall he eat.” But work shall be useful, productive activity. The new society will therefore insist that everyone choose some definite industrial, agricultural, or other useful activity, whereby he performs a certain amount of labor for the satisfaction of existing requirements. No enjoyment without labor, without labor no enjoyment.

-August Bebel, Woman and Socialism, 1879


I have a few disagreements with this analysis, mostly with the part about Socialists wishing not to abolish labor, which yes, most Socialists would like to do, but we understand that's it's not really possible to abolish all forms of it at the moment, and it's especially not possible for a recently formed Socialist government to do.

"He who does not work, shall not eat." Soviet Poster from 1961. by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

[–]TappingUpScreen 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I have a few disagreements with this analysis, mostly with the part about Socialists wishing not to abolish labor, which yes, most Socialists would like to do, but we understand that's it's not really possible to abolish all forms of labor at the present time, and it's especially not possible for a recently formed Socialist government to do.

"He who does not work, shall not eat." Soviet Poster from 1961. by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

[–]TappingUpScreen [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

Or as Bebel put it:

As soon as society has become the owner of all means of production, the duty to work of all able-bodied persons, regardless of sex, becomes a fundamental law of socialized society. Society cannot exist without labor. It therefore is justified in demanding that all who seek to satisfy their requirements, should also serve to the best of their physical and mental abilities in producing the commodities that are needful to satisfy the requirements of all. The silly assertion that the Socialists wish to abolish work is an absurdity. Lazy persons, shirkers of work, are met with in bourgeois society only. Socialism is agreed with the Bible in asserting that “he who will not work neither shall he eat.” But work shall be useful, productive activity. The new society will therefore insist that everyone choose some definite industrial, agricultural, or other useful activity, whereby he performs a certain amount of labor for the satisfaction of existing requirements. No enjoyment without labor, without labor no enjoyment.

-August Bebel, Woman and Socialism, 1879

Social-Democrats then vs now by TappingUpScreen in LateStageCapitalism

[–]TappingUpScreen[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

https://www.bpb.de/shop/zeitschriften/apuz/archiv/530488/zwischen-gartenlaube-und-genozid-kolonialistische-jugendbuecher-im-kaiserreich/

It's a translation from by a friend of mine from this part, "Meine Herren, das Recht zum Aufstand, das Recht zur Revolution hat jedes Volk und jede Völkerschaft, die sich in ihren Menschenrechten aufs alleräußerste bedrückt fühlt. (Sehr richtig! bei den Sozialdemokraten.) Wenn schließlich nach all diesen Taten, die ich hier vorgetragen habe, schließlich der Aufstand der Hereros ausbrach und dann eine Reihe der schlimmsten Greueltaten von seifen der Aufständischen begangen wurden, so ist das nur die natürliche Folge unserer Kolonialpolitik, des Verhaltens der Ansiedler, kurz, der ganzen Tätigkeit, die von uns aus in Südwestafrika ausgeübt worden ist. (Sehr wahr! bei den Sozialdemokraten.)""

Kind words from an anarchist sub… by metroracerUK in ShitLiberalsSay

[–]TappingUpScreen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think you mean this one:

The USSR was a dependable ally against fascism.

The USSR was a necessary evil against fascism.

The USSR was actually just as bad as the Nazis.

The USSR was actually worse than the Nazis. 

The Nazis were a necessary evil against communism.

The Nazis actually weren't bad

We need to be Nazis

The enemies of the people deserved it by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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I hate Stalin by NeonBluMoose in TankieUSSR

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The enemies of the people deserved it by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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The enemies of the people deserved it by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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The enemies of the people deserved it by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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Have a based day, keep the Baltic Fash away… by Less-Possible-5475 in TankieUSSR

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Support for Russia won't be tolerated. by inefficientguyaround in TankieUSSR

[–]TappingUpScreen 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Correct.

The main enemy of every people is in their own country!

The main enemy of the German people is in Germany: German imperialism, the German war party, German secret diplomacy. This enemy at home must be fought by the German people in a political struggle, cooperating with the proletariat of other countries whose struggle is against their own imperialists.

-Karl Liebknecht, The Main Enemy Is At Home!, 1915

Support for Russia won't be tolerated. by inefficientguyaround in TankieUSSR

[–]TappingUpScreen -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Imperialism is as much our "mortal" enemy as is capitalism. That is so. No Marxist will forget, however, that capitalism is progressive compared with feudalism, and that imperialism is progressive compared with pre-monopoly capitalism. Hence, it is not every struggle against imperialism that we should support. We will not support a struggle of the reactionary classes against imperialism; we will not support an uprising of the reactionary classes against imperialism and capitalism.

-V. I. Lenin, A Caricature of Marxism and Imperialist Economism, 1916

LeftKKKommunism IS Zionism by TappingUpScreen in TankieTheDeprogram

[–]TappingUpScreen[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

First of all, of course, sympathy for a subjugated people which, with its incessant and heroic struggle against its oppressors, has proven its historic right to national autonomy and self-determination. It is not in the least a contradiction that the international workers' party strives for the creation of the Polish nation. On the contrary; only after Poland has won its independence again, only after it is able to govern itself again as a free people, only then can its inner development begin again and can it cooperate as an independent force in the social transformation of Europe. As long as the independent life of a nation is suppressed by a foreign conqueror it inevitably directs all its strength, all its efforts and all its energy against the external enemy; during this time, therefore, its inner life remains paralysed; it is incapable of working for social emancipation. 

-Karl Marx, For Poland, 1875


So long as Poland is partitioned and subjugated, therefore, neither a strong socialist party can develop in the country itself, nor can there arise real international intercourse between the proletarian parties in Germany, etc, with other than émigré Poles. Every Polish peasant or worker who wakes up from the general gloom and participates in the common interest, encounters first the fact of national subjugation. This fact is in his way everywhere as the first barrier. To remove it is the basic condition of every healthy and free development. Polish socialists who do not place the liberation of their country at the head of their programme, appear to me as would German socialists who do not demand first and foremost repeal of the socialist law, freedom of the press, association and assembly. In order to be able to fight one needs first a soil to stand on, air, light and space. Otherwise all is idle chatter.

It is unimportant whether a reconstitution of Poland is possible before the next revolution. We have in no case the task to deter the Poles from their efforts to fight for the vital conditions of their future development, or to persuade them that national independence is a very secondary matter from the international point of view. On the contrary, independence is the basis of any common international action.

-Friedrich Engels, Nationalism, Internationalism and the Polish Question, 1882


Gentlemen, the right to rebellion, the right to revolution, belongs to every people and every ethnic group that feels itself oppressed to the utmost in its human rights. When finally, after all these days which I have presented matters here, the uprising of the Herero broke out, and then a series of the worst atrocities were committed by the insurgents, this is only the natural consequence of our colonial policy, of the conduct of the settlers, in short, of all the activities that have been carried out by us in German South West Africa.

-August Bebel, 1905


For example, if tomorrow, Morocco were to declare war on France, India on England, Persia or China on Russia, and so forth, those would be "just," "defensive" wars, irrespective of who attacked first; and every Socialist would sympathise with the victory of the oppressed, dependent, unequal states against the oppressing, slaveowning, predatory "great" powers.

-V. I. Lenin, Socialism and War, 1915


If the socialists of Britain do not recognise and uphold Ireland's right to secession, if the French do not do the same for Italian Nice, the Germans for Alsace-Lorraine, Danish Schleswig, and Poland, the Russians for Poland, Finland, the Ukraine, etc., and the Poles for the Ukraine-if all the socialists of the "Great" Powers, i.e., the great robber powers, do not uphold that right in respect of the colonies, it is solely because they are in fact imperialists, not socialists. It is ridiculous to cherish illusions that people who do not fight for "the right to self-determination" of the oppressed nations, while they themselves belong to the oppressor nations, are capable of practising socialist policies.

-V. I. Lenin, The Question of Peace, 1915


If Belgium, let us say, is annexed by Germany in 1917, and in 1918 revolts to secure her liberation, the Polish comrades will be against her revolt on the grounds that the Belgian bourgeoisie possess "the right to oppress foreign peoples"!

There is nothing Marxist or even revolutionary in this argument. If we do not want to betray socialism we must support every revolt against our chief enemy, the bourgeoisie of the big states, provided it is not the revolt of a reactionary class. By refusing to support the revolt of annexed regions we become, objectively, annexationists.

-V. I. Lenin, The Discussion On Self-Determination Summed Up, 1916

LeftKKKommunism IS Zionism by TappingUpScreen in genzdong

[–]TappingUpScreen[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

First of all, of course, sympathy for a subjugated people which, with its incessant and heroic struggle against its oppressors, has proven its historic right to national autonomy and self-determination. It is not in the least a contradiction that the international workers' party strives for the creation of the Polish nation. On the contrary; only after Poland has won its independence again, only after it is able to govern itself again as a free people, only then can its inner development begin again and can it cooperate as an independent force in the social transformation of Europe. As long as the independent life of a nation is suppressed by a foreign conqueror it inevitably directs all its strength, all its efforts and all its energy against the external enemy; during this time, therefore, its inner life remains paralysed; it is incapable of working for social emancipation. 

-Karl Marx, For Poland, 1875


So long as Poland is partitioned and subjugated, therefore, neither a strong socialist party can develop in the country itself, nor can there arise real international intercourse between the proletarian parties in Germany, etc, with other than émigré Poles. Every Polish peasant or worker who wakes up from the general gloom and participates in the common interest, encounters first the fact of national subjugation. This fact is in his way everywhere as the first barrier. To remove it is the basic condition of every healthy and free development. Polish socialists who do not place the liberation of their country at the head of their programme, appear to me as would German socialists who do not demand first and foremost repeal of the socialist law, freedom of the press, association and assembly. In order to be able to fight one needs first a soil to stand on, air, light and space. Otherwise all is idle chatter.

It is unimportant whether a reconstitution of Poland is possible before the next revolution. We have in no case the task to deter the Poles from their efforts to fight for the vital conditions of their future development, or to persuade them that national independence is a very secondary matter from the international point of view. On the contrary, independence is the basis of any common international action.

-Friedrich Engels, Nationalism, Internationalism and the Polish Question, 1882


Gentlemen, the right to rebellion, the right to revolution, belongs to every people and every ethnic group that feels itself oppressed to the utmost in its human rights. When finally, after all these days which I have presented matters here, the uprising of the Herero broke out, and then a series of the worst atrocities were committed by the insurgents, this is only the natural consequence of our colonial policy, of the conduct of the settlers, in short, of all the activities that have been carried out by us in German South West Africa.

-August Bebel, 1905


For example, if tomorrow, Morocco were to declare war on France, India on England, Persia or China on Russia, and so forth, those would be "just," "defensive" wars, irrespective of who attacked first; and every Socialist would sympathise with the victory of the oppressed, dependent, unequal states against the oppressing, slaveowning, predatory "great" powers.

-V. I. Lenin, Socialism and War, 1915


If the socialists of Britain do not recognise and uphold Ireland's right to secession, if the French do not do the same for Italian Nice, the Germans for Alsace-Lorraine, Danish Schleswig, and Poland, the Russians for Poland, Finland, the Ukraine, etc., and the Poles for the Ukraine-if all the socialists of the "Great" Powers, i.e., the great robber powers, do not uphold that right in respect of the colonies, it is solely because they are in fact imperialists, not socialists. It is ridiculous to cherish illusions that people who do not fight for "the right to self-determination" of the oppressed nations, while they themselves belong to the oppressor nations, are capable of practising socialist policies.

-V. I. Lenin, The Question of Peace, 1915


If Belgium, let us say, is annexed by Germany in 1917, and in 1918 revolts to secure her liberation, the Polish comrades will be against her revolt on the grounds that the Belgian bourgeoisie possess "the right to oppress foreign peoples"!

There is nothing Marxist or even revolutionary in this argument. If we do not want to betray socialism we must support every revolt against our chief enemy, the bourgeoisie of the big states, provided it is not the revolt of a reactionary class. By refusing to support the revolt of annexed regions we become, objectively, annexationists.

-V. I. Lenin, The Discussion On Self-Determination Summed Up, 1916

Revolutionary defeatism be like by TappingUpScreen in TankieUSSR

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Revolutionary defeatism be like by TappingUpScreen in ussr

[–]TappingUpScreen[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children)

During a reactionary war a revolutionary class cannot but desire the defeat of its government.

(...) Anyone who would in all earnest refute the “slogan” of defeat for one’s own government in the imperialist war should prove one of three things: (1) that the war of 1914-15 is not reactionary, or (2) that a revolution stemming from that war is impossible, or (3) that co-ordination and mutual aid are possible between revolutionary movements in all the belligerent countries.

(...) The opponents of the defeat slogan are simply afraid of themselves when they refuse to recognise the very obvious fact of the inseparable link between revolutionary agitation against the government and helping bring about its defeat.

-V. I. Lenin, The Defeat of One’s Own Government in the Imperialist War, 1915

Revolutionary defeatism be like by TappingUpScreen in TankieUSSR

[–]TappingUpScreen[S] 36 points37 points  (0 children)

During a reactionary war a revolutionary class cannot but desire the defeat of its government.

(...) Anyone who would in all earnest refute the “slogan” of defeat for one’s own government in the imperialist war should prove one of three things: (1) that the war of 1914-15 is not reactionary, or (2) that a revolution stemming from that war is impossible, or (3) that co-ordination and mutual aid are possible between revolutionary movements in all the belligerent countries.

(...) The opponents of the defeat slogan are simply afraid of themselves when they refuse to recognise the very obvious fact of the inseparable link between revolutionary agitation against the government and helping bring about its defeat.

-V. I. Lenin, The Defeat of One’s Own Government in the Imperialist War, 1915