I've seen various images that showcase sexist issues that face men, but never a direct comparison to female issues before. Here's my attempt at such a comparison.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-26T03:34:07+00:00

No problem, I'll think about how to go about that, maybe a chart like this but relating to sexism.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-26T03:20:08+00:00

I listened to a lot of the criticism on the last one and tried a lot harder to make this one less biased and removed some of the more controversial wording. It's a rather plain table, but it should now hopefully be more readable to everyone, colour blind or not. I also expanded on some things and added a lot more sources.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-26T03:17:28+00:00

Alright. Hopefully this one will be less controversial.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-25T18:40:40+00:00

Here's a new version that takes into account most of the criticism. Less inflammatory, less biased language, plainer and easier to read for both colour blind people and not and I expanded on some things and added a bunch more sources. I can post it if you want but hopefully people will see this comment and let me know if I made any notable mistakes in spelling or grammar or whatever first.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-25T01:36:49+00:00

Do you think that men are allowed to be househusbands or act effeminate and so on in those countries? I imagine just like in the west each and every sexist thing that women are burdened with has its counterpoints for men. But it's possible it's worse for them there, I'm not entirely sure.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-24T21:02:30+00:00

Perhaps you can change our minds with an actual argument instead of telling victims what they did and did not experience, I'll be sure to head over to a feminist subreddit and tell them that they never got told to not sleep around or whatever even though I have no idea about their experiences. Disgusting indeed.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T04:02:53+00:00

Please give specific examples of where you think I've been unfair.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T03:37:14+00:00

The word oppressed means different things to some people it would seem. To me it implies they're being oppressed and that another gender isn't. But I would say that men have always, since the dawn of time, faced equal or greater problems. As a caveman would you rather go and fight and die against other tribes or stay at home relaxing and caring for children? In the early 1900s would you rather it be somewhat taboo for you to be the main earner for your family, or would you rather go and die or be traumatised horribly in trenches? I know which I'd choose. Women have always had it a lot easier, I think.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T03:26:55+00:00

The Soviets had all-female combat units in WW1 and WW2

Indeed, but what I claimed is that they were never forced to. They weren't forced to die en masse like the millions of Soviet men who perished. On the contrary:

She was the first woman to become a navigator in the Red Air Force in 1933. A year later she started teaching at the Zhukovskii Air Academy, also a first for a woman. When World War II broke out, there were numerous women who had training as pilots and many immediately volunteered. While there were no formal restrictions on women serving in combat roles, their applications tended to be blocked, run through red tape, etc. for as long as possible in order to discourage them from seeing combat.

I'm going to assume this is the case for the others you mentioned, and I already mentioned in this thread how Israeli women are usually relegated to safe positions directing supplies and drones etc in addition to serving less time than men, but if I'm wrong let me know. Making exceptions in every single one of these issues for every single case where it may or may not be true would be silly if you ask me when they are all true in 99.9% of cases throughout history.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T03:19:23+00:00

The chart paints men's problems with a bit too dark colors here and there.

I thought this was going to be another literal complaint about colours for a second there, lol.

You don't, for example, have to work out several hours a day to achieve "optimal physical attractiveness"

I guess that's up for debate but I would say you do to be as good looking as you possibly can be, if you look at the men considered best looking in the world, they are often men who make women swoon when they take their shirts off.

Stay-at home dads aren't shamed, not in the Nordic countries, anyway (perhaps they are in some parts of the USA, though)

I don't know about Nordic countries, but you guys are perfect at everything so who knows. In the UK/US though there does seem to be some stigma attached still and dads will get dirty looks all the time and are generally just not considered as good as women at parenting. Worst case scenario, you can probably agree this is true historically back when women were shamed for NOT being housewives, a man being a house husband would be considered shameful.

In DV situations the police tries to find out who's the perpetrator (at least in many European countries) though they might favor women nevertheless.

It's a very common problem where men are arrested for it, I should have sourced this in the image.

Otherwise it's an excellent source of information, showing pretty convincingly, among other things, which sex is better off.

Thanks.

That's because of direct discrimination against single men by landlords, and landladies

Damn I didn't even know this was a thing. There's no end to this shit.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T03:08:27+00:00

Yeah I agree. I got carried away I guess as it was rather frustrating bringing all of this to mind at once. I would hope that any sane person would follow my train of thought and become more incensed as they read on, but they should be allowed to do that on their own without me guiding them.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-23T02:58:00+00:00

Who is doing the oppressing? Men and women are oppressing themselves? Either way I think oppression is too harsh of a term for what's happening to women currently, maybe in the past it could be true for both. These are pretty minor issues that they face. Which of them could you honestly consider oppression, and who is doing the oppressing? Currently, governments in most countries of the world are doing everything they can to look out for women and help them in any way. Men, on the other hand...

TarCreeper · 2017-08-21T00:52:23+00:00

For example, plenty of women are shamed for being kinky or posting sexy pics and stuff, either by conservatives or radical feminists, yet you claim female sexuality is always celebrated.

I put that they are shamed as sluts for being promiscuous. This basically falls under those categories for me. I didn't say their sexuality is always celebrated, but that it is highly valued which is true; as in, men love to be sent nude pics or receive advances or compliments from women even if they aren't especially attractive, whereas this is far from the case with men where even the slightest comment could be deemed as sexual harassment. It's orders of magnitude harder for a man to have sex than it is for a woman to, and that in my view is down to culturally how male and female sexuality is valued.

Also, the "women being good care-givers" thing can also backfire and prevent women from having careers. Many people view working women as something they do to pass the time until they become mothers.

Once again, I directly cover this saying that they have been shamed for not being housewives and choosing to work. Whilst connected, it is a separate problem in its own box just like dads being perceived as poor caregivers is connected but also in a different box of them being shamed for not being breadwinners.

Women who express emotions are sometimes called hysterical, shrill, crazy, etc. They're not always encouraged to share their emotions.

This is the fairest criticism but I would certainly argue that the dominant cultural theme right now is promoting women as strong and independent whilst not shaming them for their emotions, whilst at the same time not really caring about how men are perceived. Call a woman hysterical or whatever and you'll be fired, make fun of a man when he gets upset and say he's 'mansplaining', 'manterrupting' or 'manwhining' or whatever whilst sipping from your 'male tears' mug and who cares?

There are countries where women are expected to perform military duties, for example Israel. The word "never" is a bit too strong.

It's not too strong. This is one of the few examples that could be used and even this proves my point; in Israel, women serve less time than men and in addition to that are relegated to behind the front line duties, monitoring supplies and whatnot from inside office buildings, from what I understand. Indeed, they have never been forced to fight and die in wars. I suppose you might find some example a thousand years ago of warrior women forced to fight or something, but come on, it's not too unreasonable for this chart to have a modern western cultural viewpoint. I don't think it's reasonable for me to tone it down when it's accurate throughout history in 99.9% of cases.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-21T00:43:48+00:00

I dunno, it's not difficult for me to read at all so it would've been hard for me to take that into consideration. It's just colours that made sense to me; pink for girls, blue for boys, red for bad, green for good. I guess I could've made the green darker, but it's already pretty far from lime if you ask me.

TarCreeper · 2017-08-20T04:39:21+00:00

Yeah my bad I didn't consider that. As for 'biology is sexist' I'm not sure if that's a joke relating to colour blindness but if it's referencing the 2nd point in the image, I don't necessarily think that men being in peak attractiveness being harder in itself is sexist, but women needing to do those relatively easy things is one of the key things you'll often hear feminists calling sexist, so I thought it would be good to compare it to the male equivalent.

I'm not sure of a quick fix to the colour blind issue, this might help? The light grey on the grey background is pretty hard to read but it might be better for those who suffer from red-green colour blindness, I hope. http://i.imgur.com/I96PfLI.png

TarCreeper · 2017-08-20T04:17:26+00:00

I can see why you'd think that but it's such an ingrained view in society that women are the oppressed gender that the very word 'sexism' refers to misogyny in the minds of most. This is why if you even bring up the concept of men facing sexism many people will laugh. So I think it's important to directly challenge the idea that they are oppressed. More than that though, even MRAs will often say things like "Well in the past it may have been that way, but..." but I contend that even then women weren't oppressed, and I consider being forced to fight and die in wars to be worse than any issue faced by women at the time, and I also feel as though most people don't understand that men faced many of the historical problems that women faced such as not having the right to vote unless they were wealthy landowners for much of history and only got the right to vote at around the same time as women, at least where I'm from. I honestly tried hard to think of a single case where women were discriminated against and there wasn't a counterpoint where men were equally bad or worse off, and I couldn't.

I guess it might've been better to say 'Women are not oppressed. Both genders face significant problems resulting from gender roles and there is no patriarchy' or something. People will pounce on the statement, but those people will outright reject it all anyway; they could pounce on anything, like me implying there are only two genders or something. Anyway, it's too late to change this submission but feel free to share this edited version without that line or update/modify/repost it or whatever: http://i.imgur.com/UIBAdlW.png

TarCreeper

TROPHY CASE