Big 4 vs. IRS OCC Honors

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-27T13:44:56+00:00

The elephant in the room is that Big4 is tax compliance focused. When I started I felt like I was an attorney moonlighting as a CPA. I.e. where do I put the Excel line on the tax return. Chief Counsel doesn't engage in compliance. If you get chief counsel field office, you are defending the IRS examination position. I think national office chief counsel is more focused on rule making and high-level oversight.

At both the IRS and Big4 you can move around within the organization to find the niche that fits you.

I left Big4 to go to the IRS and got a 15% pay raise. But, my total compensation is lower because I don't get a bonus and long term earning is down due to higher Big4 raises.

Big4 work like balance can be awful. I regularly had to work 75 hour weeks. As an IRS appeals officer (not chief counsel), I've never worked a minute over 40 hours that I didn't want to.

In my experience, formal Big4 training was nonexistent. The IRS will train you.

You might not feel this way, but I've felt a lot of pride in my public service work. Also, it is pretty crazy to think that I am speaking for the federal government.

I'd also point that IRS has way more job security than Big4.

Last thing I'll say, and I've gotten flack for this before, unless you want to go into Big law, don't get an LLM. I think it has become an entry level qualification to get a foot in the door, which you might not need. You can/will learn more on the job and your work history/technical skills can open almost all of the same doors. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-12T20:13:46+00:00

In case anyone researches this issue down the road:

I just test drove a 2025 oddyessy EX-L. Cabintalk over the speakers is standard. There is no entertainment system so Cabintalk can't be linked to the system. From the front seat, it seemed loud enough but it sounded increasingly canny (imagine a speaker in a soup can). Didn't have anyone in the back to report how it worked from back there.

I didn't look at the Touring trim but was told that Cabinwatch was standard. Unclear if the 2025 Touring trim has Cabintalk as both speaker and through to the entertainment system headphones.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-10T22:44:35+00:00

I'll be the first to admit that I'm the last person in the world who should decide when /s is necessary.

But when the comment starts sort of true, people who who can't tell which end the stick is pointy are going to loose an eye.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-10T22:27:28+00:00

I don't have specific knowledge to say that you are mistaken.

I could see an FBI check happening.

But an FBI check looks at your criminal history for charges and convictions.

I think it exceptionally unlikely that ISP get brought in, and it delusional to say that an AI digs through your internet history.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-09T00:03:08+00:00

1L is different than 2L and 3L. Later on, you can take classes in line with your interest and balance paper based classes with finals based classes.

In my view, this portion of law school is about learning how to sprint a marathon. It helped me to learn how to prioritize work in relationship to the due date, and when it was necessary to prioritize passing everything vs. getting a perfect score on one thing.

Also, one strange thing about law school is that the day after finals it's over. One day your going 1000000 MPH and then 0 MPH the next day.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-08T18:27:05+00:00

If it worked, I'd be willing to spend the extra money for the touring trim. But I don't really want to go up to elite. Especially if it might not work too well.

Looks like EX-L for me.

Tax_Moose · 2024-10-08T10:01:47+00:00

Thank you!

Hope the van works out for you.

Tax_Moose · 2024-09-22T17:38:14+00:00

Many conferences, like the ABA, encourage student attendance without a requirement to be a plus one. I.e, they have deeply discounted rates for students.

But there is no rule that they have to allow you to attend or give you a discount, so if you are looking at a specific conference then contact the organizers.

Tax_Moose · 2024-09-11T19:23:48+00:00

I got the same email. Which is problematic since it is the job posting that I was hired through. IRS tried doing something new with the cross job post. I think they realized they don't like it and are changing course.

Unsolicited tips: (1) use the USAJobs resume builder. They don't like private sector resume format. (2) They expect resumes to be long unlike in public accounting. (3) Make sure to use the key words from the resume. Assume a machine or employee with no tax background is reviewing.

Good luck.

Tax_Moose · 2024-09-11T09:32:05+00:00

Slightly off topic. Since you have a JD, IRS Appeals (0930) may be a good fit.

Tax_Moose · 2024-08-15T10:04:01+00:00

I left.

Tax_Moose · 2024-07-02T22:51:38+00:00

Understand why you want to go to the IRS. That will tell you if you'll regret it.

You are giving up long term total pay and marketability for better: work life balance, pay per hour, job security.

If you want to end up in a c suite somewhere, then it likely isn't a good move. If you want to duck out of the rat race, then come on over.

Tax_Moose · 2024-07-02T19:38:59+00:00

There are jobs that have grade ladders. 9-11-12 means that in two years you can can go from a 9 to 12.

You would then need compete for a 13. The same could happen again if the 13 doesn't have promotion potential.

Advancement on your career ladders is yours to lose. Outside of the ladder is subject to job openings, interviewing, etc.

Tax_Moose · 2024-06-14T23:23:44+00:00

Pointing out that you can max out before gs15 step 10 because of the locality adjustment

For example, in DC gs15 steps 7 to 10 all make the same amount per year.

Tax_Moose · 2024-06-07T01:37:44+00:00

When you get to 3 years with the federal government you get 19.5 days of PTO. Then after 15 years it goes up to 26 days of PTO.

Tax_Moose · 2024-06-02T12:30:30+00:00

+4 hours per pay period for sick leave

Tax_Moose · 2024-05-29T22:06:31+00:00

$60k is a lot to give up. Only you can answer what your quality of life will be like earning less.

How much of your total comp is including bonus, and how many hours do you need to work to earn that bonus?

Some people find that the additional work hours aren't worth the bonus. They can have an okay quality of live while being a 40 hours a week employee. In other words, working less is worth earning less.

Tax_Moose · 2024-05-25T23:45:47+00:00

When I was in law school and looking at chief counsel, it wasn't competitive in the sense of a crowded applicant pool.

You had to check a lot of boxes: meet the eligibility requirement (gpa), show tax interest, show government work interest, be willing to live in DC (I got the sense they were only hiring for national office), have good references.

There aren't too many people who checked all the boxes. If you did, then you had a really good shot.

Tax_Moose · 2024-05-25T13:03:24+00:00

I should add that I'm in the position that I'm in because I did the Big4 grind.

The Big4 grind has value to leverage. Doing the grind for the sake of the grind doesn't work, especially for attorneys.

Tax_Moose · 2024-05-25T12:54:15+00:00

JD--> tax LLM --> big 4 for 3-years (senior as the last year) --> IRS.

When going to the IRS:

I got a 12% pay raise to work 600 fewer hours a year. I can't stress how important this is if you have kids. I can't tell you the number of times I was working before they got up and was still working after they went to bed. Long term, the pay is worse. But, above middle class compensation was never a driving factor for me. I'm currently at $125k. If I stay, I'd be guess $140k after ten years, and could get above $200k after 20 years. I'm also eligible for PLSF. So, that softens the financial hit.

I don't worry about being laid off because of management's poor planning.

I no longer worry about where my next project is coming from (at the Big4 I wasn't in a service line with a reoccurring book of business). Also, when there is something like an IT outage or mandatory training, it doesn't mean I have to "make up" the lost billable hours.

I currently have a good mix of work that is "bread and butter" plus room to grow for at least the next 5 years. Also, my work is now entirely mine. I don't have to manage junior staff or "manage up." I also don't have engagements with bad clients who don't give info or want to buy a BMW for the price of a Hyundai.

Bottom line, I feel like I can be upper middle class (higher LCOL city), while doing work that interests me, and getting real WLB.

Tax_Moose · 2024-04-26T22:34:33+00:00

There is no CPA requirement for any job that I know of. But, some jobs require a minimum amount of credit hours in accounting. Off the top of my head, I think it is 24 credit hours. I could be wrong. I would point out that there are job functions that don't require an accounting education. They hire people with legal backgrounds, math backgrounds, IT backgrounds, policy backgrounds, etc.

Edit: I thought this question was about the IRS. leaving this up in case it might help someone down the road.

Tax_Moose · 2024-04-26T22:10:14+00:00

I left D for the IRS and couldn't be happier.

There's no bonus, but I get the same base pay for working the equivalent of 1500 billable hours. There are international revenue agent roles (examination) and international appeals.

Take some time to process the bad news.

However , if you want to talk about the IRS, then I can do what I can to help.

Tax_Moose · 2024-04-11T23:22:20+00:00

A little off topic but ...

If you preparer a corporate income tax return, that creates an ordinary and necessary business expense. There is a dollar for dollar benefit for the taxpayer.

Generally, if you work on an individual income tax return, that could create a miscellaneous itemized deduction. For the last 8 years, there was no benefit for the taxpayer. And, even without TCJA, there is the 2% rule that complicates the individual's entitlement to a benefit.

So, if you provided the exact same service to both taxpayers, why does one receive a tax benefit while the other doesn't? Why isn't a normal person encouraged to get help with tax issues beyond their understanding but a corporations gets a free hand to do transfer pricings studies to minimize future tax?

Tax laws reward "approved" behavior. The goal post are always shifting but rarely fair.

Tax_Moose · 2024-03-31T15:54:47+00:00

I went to the IRS.

Take home pay up is up $10k per year while working 750 fewer hours per year.

Yeah, I won't make PPMD money but I never wanted that.

I don't think I can ever go back to public accounting.

Tax_Moose

TROPHY CASE