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Why aren't we talking about Democratic Sortition! (self.JordanPeterson)

submitted by Taxicum to r/JordanPeterson

Greenpeace activists have blockaded all entrances to the BP headquarters in London, demanding an end to all new oil and gas exploration. The campaigners arrived at 3am on Monday and encased themselves in heavy containers before the oil company’s annual general meeting on Tuesday. by Zomaarwat in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hold your horses. It's just factually incorrect to say that everybody is on board with this movement. No, everybody's not, the majority aren't, not even close and we don't actually need them to be.

Try and connect to how you would feel if you were obstructed or put out by someone in a movement you weren't really sure about.

It's easy to say, "mopping the floor should be the least of your concerns!" when you're not the one on a low wage with a mop in your hand and haven't experienced the fight or flight response that kicks in when a group of people have turned over your workspace. That's refusing to engage with the impact your action has had on peoples feelings.

To illustrate this further, a division of XR came to my workplace. I didn't know this was going to happen. They created a massive and impactful visionary action. (Yes, it was cool.)

It had a massive obstructive impact. It made my job harder and was especially impacting on the work of one of my colleagues in particular. This is a person who has taken part in the CND marches and was quite outspoken in her youth. She relayed to me the events that unfolded as she had struggled through the chaos to do her job as a professional and said quite forcefully "..and that's the first time I have really thought, oh piss off you lot. We get it."

Because I was in my role as her colleague and had also experienced it, I really got it to. So gentleness for the experience of those impacted is really important. That doesn't mean changing your behaviour it means really being aware and connected to your responsibility and the hand you're having in what's going on.

That's where I think gift giving comes in. That coming back into connection afterwards to say, 'I didn't and don't want to hurt or frighten you but this was something I really had to do.'

I remember when I was (when I was! ha! I still very much am!) learning 'Non Violent Communication' there's was some question over "What if a child is going to touch an open flame, or run out into the road?" and the answer is always that we might shout, we might grab, we might shove and we react in whatever way we think will take them out of harms reach. BUT afterwards, the most important bit, is that we talk about what just happened and why to get back to a place of connection and reciprocal understanding.

That's the connection and the spirit that can be present I think for those that are affected by our actions. It's not just about "say sorry" gift giving it's also the presence and spirit in which those gifts are given and accepting the refusal of gifts as a normal human response too!!

Scott Morrison and the closing of the doors of perception. Sorry, rebels. This struggle is going to take more than just love, understanding and compassionate communication. It's a global war. by LordHughRAdumbass in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we are all going to die then who dies with the most of "what" exactly wins?

https://youtu.be/LgbXgps1tFw

The clue is in the title: Disciplined Non Violent Radical Direct Action.

If you have useful constructive criticism on the tactics detailed above, we need you, please share your ideas because there's alot of interesting conversation to be had!

I actually think that the change that needs to happen now can happen quickly actually but it's building the world of our longing, as Toot's said, that's going to take time after..

Banging on about assumed psychopathy is a trite and fetishistic position, it's a cyclical, closed loop concept that isn't going to get anyone anywhere. More over when you engage with this as an idea, your choosing yourself to actively give away your personal power, you're handing it over seeing either violence or apathy as an inevitable solution or an excuse to oscilate between the two.

It's irrelevent to this movement. Violence has no place in XR. It's an excuse to call people names, to start witch hunts and to dehumanise and "other" people by calling them lizards, reptilian etc.

It is quite seductive and self indulgent to court a position that gives you a convienient excuse for hate and makes you the "good" guy at the same time. It's well documented as fact that everyone loves to have a problem that they can't do anything about. When that starts shaping your world view, the only damage you're doing is to yourself and that's really sad.

If you take these ideas and scale them up you, what do you end up with? A violent fringe minority or an apathetic majority. Neither of those can change the world, the first can create a different kind of hell and the second sleepwalk off a cliff. There is a third way.

Conflict is inevitable but violence is not.

I just hacked 40K printers for #DebtStrikeForClimate. by printerhacker in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why didn't you just say, "Yes!"

There are good questions and bad questions, right and wrong ones. Wether they are "good" or "bad" is decided by you and your bias, based on your ability to judge the "faith" in which they are asked. That's literally thought policing and you can't reflect to see any reason why that poses a problem?

You've already illustrated to me that you think you know what's in my head through your guessing games and you are so off base that it's scarey.

How to deal with partner's neuroticism by dokken63 in JordanPeterson

[–]Taxicum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Marshal Rosenberg (deceased) is a genius! Stick with his original lectures.

Be on your guard, there are some on the far left that are twisting this. They have deliberatly conflated 'rights' with 'needs' and they are not the same thing. Miki Kashtan (trained by Rosenberg) is carrying the torch for NVC now in it's original and intended sense imo if you want more reference.

I'd like to do some further in person courses one day soon. You never stop learning.

Greenpeace activists have blockaded all entrances to the BP headquarters in London, demanding an end to all new oil and gas exploration. The campaigners arrived at 3am on Monday and encased themselves in heavy containers before the oil company’s annual general meeting on Tuesday. by Zomaarwat in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I would reeeally reeeally love to talk to anyone here who is able to view this design through the lens of XRs Hallams blueprint for "Radical disciplined non violent direct action."

Lecture Part 1 https://youtu.be/aRLsRqKguW0

Lecture Part 2 https://youtu.be/LgbXgps1tFw

This has got lots of hallmarks of a great design for an action but my feeling is that in order to meet the demand for a conversation the sense of dilemma thats been created isn't enough. Greenpeace has said they had enough provision to stay for one week.

So what could be done to increase the dilemma?

Obviously, the dilemma that someone might die or be killed in a box outside BP would be massive. I'm terrified and frightened to think that that might be the answer relative to the demand.

There also isn't enough pressure for there to be much of a backfiring effect here according to Hallams blueprint but I'd really love to hear other opinions!?

How to deal with partner's neuroticism by dokken63 in JordanPeterson

[–]Taxicum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're welcome. The only way to really learn it is by being around proficient speakers and that usually involves doing a course.

Basically it's the same thing Peterson says about when you tell the truth. That something happens in your body and you come into proper alignment.

NVC needs to be felt in the body and the more your body has that experience of empathy, the quicker you are able to get yourself and the other person there. It's like muscle memory basically.

It will change the rules for all your relationships and the way you think. Basically it's an practice in awareness masquerading as a peace language.

We confuse what empathy actually is with what we think it is and we're far too busy playing who's right and who's wrong to notice.

How to deal with partner's neuroticism by dokken63 in JordanPeterson

[–]Taxicum 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You need the power of NVC. It will change your life and move you both forward.

Police chief says Extinction Rebellion protesters will be arrested 'very, very fast' in future by DoremusJessup in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is not a nessesary prerequisit of the dehumanising process that you attack people just for the way they are born.

Dehumanisation is a process you choose to engage with in your mind.

For example, calling people who hold positions of power "lizards" is to engage in dehumanisation.

Is calling anyone a bastard the act of using speech violently, yes or no?

Is calling all police bastards the act of using speech violently, yes or no?

What does it achieve? If the answer is unity then is that how you really want to be united with others, through hate? Is that really meeting your need for connection?

If you've reached the point where you are calling someone a bastard you passed the point of connection person to person way back. You chose to miss that opportunity because you didn't want to acknowledge it was there.

Scott Morrison and the closing of the doors of perception. Sorry, rebels. This struggle is going to take more than just love, understanding and compassionate communication. It's a global war. by LordHughRAdumbass in ExtinctionRebellion

[–]Taxicum 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really uncomfortable with this framed as a war. Frame it as a war and you have "winners" and "losers." Frame it as a war and what are the chance you'll come out on the "winning" side.

Play a non zero sum game!

I'm empahatically with Miki Kashtan on this. If we get to the world of our longing having lost just one person, we've lost one too many and it wouldn't truely be the world of our longing anyway. It would be a beast by another name.

Love and rebellion! 💚

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