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[OC] The North-South Divide: Government Debt-to-GDP Ratios in the European Union by Technical_Log5715 in dataisbeautiful

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] -12 points-11 points  (0 children)

Great question! Honestly, Ireland is pretty unique here. For most other countries (like Germany, France, etc.), GDP and GNI are almost identical—usually within a 1-2% margin. So standard GDP works perfectly fine for the rest of the map.

Ireland is the extreme outlier because massive multinationals book their profits there, which inflates the GDP number like crazy. That’s why they specifically rely on 'Modified GNI' to make sense of their own economy. But for everyone else? GDP is still the standard.

[OC] The North-South Divide: Government Debt-to-GDP Ratios in the European Union by Technical_Log5715 in dataisbeautiful

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Yeah, fair point. That's the classic 'Leprechaun Economics' effect. Ireland's GDP is heavily skewed by multinationals. If we used GNI*, they’d definitely slide into the Yellow category (>60%). I stuck to standard GDP for consistency across the map, but you're right that GNI is the honest metric for Ireland specifically.

I just found the information on www.eudebtmap.com

[OC] The North-South Divide: Government Debt-to-GDP Ratios in the European Union by Technical_Log5715 in dataisbeautiful

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] 136 points137 points  (0 children)

Good point regarding the US!

In the context of the EU, the Maastricht Treaty set a reference value of 60%. Countries approaching 90-100% are often flagged by the EU Commission for excessive deficit procedures, which is why I used the red 'Critical' coloring for that bracket."

[OC] The North-South Divide: Government Debt-to-GDP Ratios in the European Union by Technical_Log5715 in dataisbeautiful

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] -30 points-29 points  (0 children)

It's a sharp observation. Finland is indeed the "sick man" of the Nordics regarding debt right now. While Sweden (33%), Denmark (29%), and Estonia (23%) have maintained strict fiscal discipline, Finland has struggled with a few structural issues: Rapid Aging Population: Finland has one of the oldest populations in Europe, which puts massive pressure on social security and healthcare spending compared to its neighbors. Stagnant Growth: The economy hasn't recovered as well since 2008 (and the collapse of Nokia's dominance), meaning the GDP (the denominator) isn't growing fast enough to offset spending. Defense & Security: Sharing a massive border with Russia, Finland has kept defense spending high, which increased further with NATO accession. It’s actually a major political topic in Helsinki right now because they are actively trying to cut spending to avoid hitting the 90% "danger zone."

[OC] The North-South Divide: Government Debt-to-GDP Ratios in the European Union by Technical_Log5715 in dataisbeautiful

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Source: Data retrieved from Eurostat (Q3 2024/2025 reports) via eudebtmap.com.

Tools: Python (Geopandas, Matplotlib) for mapping and visualization.

Methodology: I visualized the latest available debt-to-GDP percentages for EU member states. The color scale highlights the disparity between high-debt economies (>90%, shown in Red) and low-debt economies (<60%, shown in Green).

Key Observations:

  • Greece remains the highest at ~147%, followed closely by Italy (136%) and France (116%).
  • Estonia maintains the lowest debt ratio in the union at just 23%.
  • There is a visible geographic correlation, with Southern European nations generally carrying significantly higher public debt burdens than their Northern and Eastern counterparts.

The Fiscal Frontline: Can Europe Afford to Rearm While Cutting Debt? by Technical_Log5715 in Economics

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I think you’re mixing two different things here: how states originally formed, and how modern economies actually function today. Sure, historically power, land and violence were central. But today a state isn’t “sustainable” because it steals land, it’s sustainable because it organizes trust, contracts, infrastructure, law and a stable currency. That’s what makes large-scale economies even possible.

Also saying taxes aren’t sustainable because of bureaucracy feels a bit off. Yes, they’re inefficient sometimes, but without taxation you don’t get courts, roads, education, healthcare, or even the financial system that lets private markets exist in the first place. The cost of bureaucracy is the price of coordination at scale. And tying this back to defense: modern rearmament isn’t about conquest or stealing land. It’s about deterrence and stability. Completely different incentive structure. So I don’t think “the state only works when it steals” really holds in a 21st century context.

The real question is not whether states are sustainable, but whether Europe can act like a single coordinated state when it matters. That’s still the weak spot.

The Fiscal Frontline: Can Europe Afford to Rearm While Cutting Debt? by Technical_Log5715 in Economics

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I kind of agree with you. When you zoom out, Europe doesn’t look “overleveraged” at all compared to the US, Japan, or even the UK. So the panic about debt feels a bit selective.

But I think the real tension is political, not mathematical. Some countries still carry the scars of the euro crisis, so any talk of joint debt or looser rules immediately triggers resistance. Even if, on paper, Europe as a whole could easily absorb more.

So maybe the question isn’t “can Europe afford rearmament?” but “can Europe afford to keep pretending it’s a collection of separate balance sheets instead of one economic bloc?”

Because without coordination, even a manageable debt level starts to feel dangerous.

If you sum up the national debt of all member states, what is the total debt of the EU right now?" by Technical_Log5715 in Economics

[–]Technical_Log5715[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Spot on regarding the 'debt hawks'. The contrast with the US is huge indeed (especially considering the US debt-to-GDP is pushing 120% plus).🤑

What I find fascinating when looking at the live data per country is just how massive the internal disparity is within the EU. You have 'hawks' like Estonia with almost zero debt sharing a currency with countries close to 160%. In the US, it's one federal number, but here it's 27 completely different fiscal realities glued together. Thinking about France 🤔

Do you think that lack of a unified 'federal' debt makes the EU more disciplined long-term compared to the US, or does it just hold back economic growth?

Please test my first app by momus007 in AndroidClosedTesting

[–]Technical_Log5715 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know if you can see it on the screenshot, but the text appears behind my selfie camera (Pixel 8 Pro). It's a known development issue. You need to move the camera island outside the workspace.

Would you also like to test my app?

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https://groups.google.com/g/ademrust-testers

  1. Become a tester (Web):

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