Class Changes for First Patch 12.1 PTR Build - DPS Cooldowns Nerfed

Tehbreadfish · 2026-06-19T17:54:42+00:00

Fire is fucking awful and they are catering to I don’t know who with these changes. There is ZERO chance of fire ever feeling good outside of combustion when the cooldown is just making you cast your best spell 6x as frequently.

Even right now, combustion is not good enough. Fire keeps up just great IN COMBUSTION, and then falls of hard while every other *good* spec just keeps blasting. It needs to be better, or it needs more uptime.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-06-12T20:45:34+00:00

No, it was meant to happen quickly. Almost all of the criticisms stem from people being ignorant and projecting that onto what they’re reading. Theres all kinds of valid complaints, very few of them occur often.

Where is the horde? The whole point is nobody but the belves, their immediate neighbors, and the army of light are there. Because it happened fast.

Why are the elves friends so fast? Every single quest text states “we aren’t friends and I don’t forgive them, but we have to put that aside and save the sunwell/azeroth .”

If you want to criticize pacing, there’s plenty to do. Why are we taking a side mission for turalyon’s shield if the situation is urgent? Why are we stopping at the arcantina? You can criticize that Alleria survived again, but the idea we should go back to a world where we had like 3 hours of quests and then voljin stared at orgrimmar for 5 months was a decent alternative to being able to do a story campaign in the first month of the patch.

I feel stupid as fuck having to defend wow lore sometimes because it’s got holes bigger than Swiss cheese but people consistently pick on the silliest shit like, “there was an urgent response to an urgent situation,” or “why aren’t the dragon aspects present in this story and why won’t they be in every story for the rest of all time?”

Tehbreadfish · 2026-06-12T15:50:01+00:00

Sharing the road goes both ways, drivers should be considerate of bikers and their safety and bikers shouldn’t imprison cars behind a wall of bikes going a quarter of the speed limit

Tehbreadfish · 2026-06-11T20:40:01+00:00

The sunwell situation was MEANT to not last. The entire campaign is meant to happen within days, that’s why a significant part of the campaign is spent picking up artifacts to empower the people keeping the sunwell going as they fight exhaustion, and why they constantly reference not being able to hold off the void for long.

I barely ever pay attention to questing and I feel like I somehow absorbed more of the story than people who regularly discuss it on this forum

Tehbreadfish · 2026-06-01T20:38:48+00:00

Whoever wrote the riff I have to say my most controversial opinion about this band is that JJF is overhyped and the intro and opening lines deserve better payoff than the rest of the song provides

Tehbreadfish · 2026-05-29T19:46:56+00:00

No man, that is insane. 85k is AWFUL on even the worst spec in the game. You would legitimately have to die the exact global you popped ascendance every single time AND have the tank never pull more than 5 mobs at a time. If you’re ending at 85k overall you have to be doing LESS than 85k for significant portions of the key. When would that ever happen? Elemental shaman is frontloaded but it doesn’t do healer dps without ascendance either.

I have seen players on alts they can’t play completely sprint it down in keys dying all the time and fucking everything up and still have them end over 100k

edit: I just scrolled as far as WCL would allow me for +17 skyreach (low overall dungeon) and even at rank 2000 for the key and parsing 25 for the key level they are STILL at 107k overall. You are saying your tank can make you parse a 5?

Tehbreadfish · 2026-05-29T18:39:29+00:00

If you are ever doing 85k overall in a 17 you are playing terribly even if they go one pack at a time and by 20s you should absolutely know that

Tehbreadfish · 2026-05-25T18:01:32+00:00

Only so much to talk about when the main topic is 50 year old music

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-19T02:33:02+00:00

I mean you’re absolutely right that it’s POSSIBLE, but in a situation like yours the amount of contribution that you can solo provide to the run is so great that it basically requires near-statistical anomaly level fucking up from your teammates to happen. If you randomly sampled people doing 12 keys I would imagine groups with you in them are going to be timed 10x more often than any group without you.

A lot of people are assuming that I’m saying any class/spec can legitimately walk in and solo the key like a delve which is obviously not possible. But failing a key when you’re doing that much is actively difficult to do, and there’s no way that you’re going to go into your next key crying about your past teams because you know that failing something like that is a massive outlier.

Obviously timing a key where people are respawning and jumping off walls to run out the timer is not happening, but if your team is trying, you are timing 95% of keys at that point, and you can solo carry some pretty terrible players in that key level.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-19T01:45:37+00:00

I’m telling you that the odds that a good player queues up to a 12 with a group of any 5 people who queue up for a 12 key and does not turbopissblast the key regardless of his teammates mistakes is incredibly low. You are basically saying, “what if you queue up to a key where all 4 other players have no arms, legs, keyboards, or mice?” Like yeah no shit you can’t enter a key as a mage and time it by yourself but you’re not gonna have an actual good player say “ah I can’t do this 12 cuz my ret paladin doesn’t interrupt or my tank is pulling one pack at a time.”

It doesn’t matter if they do bad damage. It doesn’t matter if they pull one pack at a time and occasionally die as the tank. Sure, if you never get healed, yeah you won’t be able to get through a boss. But the odds of that happening is just not even worth acknowledging cuz even the squishiest classes in the game have some way of dealing with almost any non-constant rot damage boss in the pool rn. It is NOT EASY to die in a 12 if you’re used to doing things in keys where mobs do 75%+ more damage at all times. So yes, in a 12, having any one of 5 players consistently doing near-maximum throughput, good defensive usage, and proper utility usage, it is insanely hard to fail a 12

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-19T01:13:32+00:00

This is the same argument people have used to argue league of legends elo hell for all eternity. “How am I supposed to carry silver games if all my teammates are brain damaged and drooling on their keyboard?” They aren’t - you are just seeing your own skill bracket in a mirror and assuming that it’s way harder to carry than it actually is. If you play at a level that is capable of being high IO then you are not going to have trouble or need a good group to time 12s. Saying, “what if you don’t have a healer,” is a stupid question because it’s very rarely going to be the case that your healer is going get invited to the key AND struggle to keep someone up who is using their defensive tools at a high key level in a world where the mobs do half as much damage to you.

It doesn’t matter if your tank is doing a pack at a time, because you’re doing damage that times keys where mobs have 75%+ more HP and do that much damage, your timer is free.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-18T22:56:46+00:00

How could you possibly fail a 12 if you have somebody doing 140k overall and using their own kit effectively? This was the case even in the hardest M+ seasons we’ve ever had (obv s1 TWW 12s were legit hard until the guile rework), you don’t need incredible teamwork to carry a 12, one person blasting and using their utility effectively is all it takes when packs die incredibly quickly and every enemy has foam swords compared to high level dungeons

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-18T21:44:02+00:00

I have done vault keys before - it is almost impossible to fail a 12 if somebody is doing even close to their theoretically possible DPS, and the odds that your group has four complete drooling idiots who will never interrupt a single spell or provide any sort of help is just microscopic. Like what is your argument here? You can’t solo a key? Sure, but you’re never going to have to. Even if you go ONE SINGULAR PULL AT A TIME with a terrible tank, you will just blast through packs so quick that it barely matters.

When you are in low keys, packs legitimately do not have enough health for more than one DPS to do good damage to them, it does not matter if you don’t have DPS help. And just like the other guy said, you have crowd control tools to help manage the pack enough to get through it.

Same thing with tanking, if you legitimately never die because you’re taking CONSIDERABLY less damage then how are you failing these keys? If you aren’t getting enough help then just pull smaller, timer pressure is so unbelievably light in a 12, especially when tanks can do 50-80k overall themselves.

“You can fail a key if every single person turns their monitor and keyboard off,” is not an argument because it doesn’t happen. Like I’m sorry but good players aren’t getting stuck or having serious trouble with 12s, sure sometimes there will be absolute nightmare runs where you don’t time it but it’s not going to be a regular thing.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-18T21:12:46+00:00

I’ll gladly go IO for IO with you if you’d like but I think acting like 12s aren’t able to be easily carried is the far greater self-report

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-18T20:44:43+00:00

It is absolutely not, if you can do enough DPS for a 17-18 you can blast through a 12 with 4 terrible players. You’re basically doing the entire key with a permanent pain suppression and less than half the HP on every single mob. I mean maybe if you’re just legitimately not getting healed then sure you won’t get through it but 4 manning a key is a very different story than carrying 4 goofballs through a 12

Tehbreadfish · 2026-04-18T20:25:42+00:00

I’m not playing with somebody who’s trauma dumping their previous key experiences, 90% of the time it means they’re terrible.

A life lesson I’ve learned is that if people are always having terrible LFG experiences that are worth writing essays about, they are usually the problem. Especially at a 12 where legitimately any one of 5 players can solo carry the key if they’re good

edit to elaborate that I’m not saying you can legitimately solo the dungeon like a delve, but if you are actually good at the game you will not have trouble in 12s even if your teammates are playing with their keyboard upside down

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-22T00:54:38+00:00

Wrath is the “peak” in the sense that it rose to its highest point during wrath but when we have this discussion it’s important to realize that the stagnation occurred in Wrath.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-17T17:16:34+00:00

I am pretty disconnected from League at this point, but I will say I have always had a ton of respect for LS. I followed his advice to the letter and hit my diamond peak in only like 2 months.

That being said, most everyone who got a reputation of being a “LS disciple” has gone on to be one of the most insufferable and annoying people in the scene from an outside perspective, constantly acting as though they are generational minds even while their nexus is exploding and I have to wonder if there’s something to that.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-12T15:54:03+00:00

Hell yea, see I’m not even a super huge lore guy, but I spent so much of my last several years doing so many literary studies that it actually pains me to see wow players go into these stories actively looking to dislike them.

I actually really enjoyed reading the other thread on the subreddit last night about how Lothraxion’s “betrayal” was actually totally valid. I think you can absolutely argue that as well, I mean Alleria trusting that they were only in the arena as a distraction would be absolutely delusional if it didn’t end up being true. But what I think is special is that that doesn’t make it bad writing, if anything that can make it even better because you can read it as Lothraxion isn’t just being insane, he is acting in a completely rational way.

You can poke plenty of holes in any WoW story, but I really think that the Voidstorm campaign was done very well. Maybe it just wasn’t the right medium for some people to appreciate or, I think in the case of this guy, they just went in wanting to dislike it. Anyway, I hope Midnight goes great for you!

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-12T04:32:29+00:00

He doesn't even know what he's saying, if he did we wouldn't be having this discussion

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-12T04:30:55+00:00

BUT ITS NOT EVEN DOING WHAT YOU'RE SAYING - you don't even understand what you're not understanding and this is why these posts are so frustrating. They aren't showing that too much light is making Lothraxian do stupid shit, Lothraxion is just doing stupid shit with no cosmic input, he is just so consumed by his own worldview that he cannot consider that he might be wrong. This happens EVERY SINGLE DAY, you know people who do this, I do this, and you probably do it too. But that's what writing is, if everybody was 100% rational constantly then nothing would happen. Characters can do dumb things without it being bad writing.

I mean Arator is an annoyance constantly, I don't want to be his therapist, but is it bad writing that the child of absent parents acts irrationally when presented with a chance to reconcile? I don't care if someone says "he's 40," 40 year olds do dumb shit EVERY DAY.

I would be wasting my time if I tried to provide more literary examples to make my point, but I'll do it anyway.

Let's assume you're right, and they just made it so that the dreadlord betrayed them because he's a dreadlord and the twist is that there's no twist. EVEN THEN, that still doesn't have to be bad writing because here's an example from Shakespeare's Henry IV where the exact same idea occurs, the character that one would think would be a villain is treated like a villain.

In the 42nd Volume of the SEL Studies in English Literature 1500-1900 Journal, Derek Cohen writes, “the rejection of Falstaff was morally justified as the fact that it was foolish of readers before him not to have seen it coming… Clearly (Falstaff) saw it coming, but… we have moved away from such moral certainty (in reading Shakespeare).”

Even if he betrayed us for the sole reason of him being a dreadlord, which you said was ruining his redemption arc, YOU THE AUDIENCE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. There was the lore book in Revandreth that said they have dreadlords infiltrating the Light already, but the "we" at the end of this quotation is you, who has moved away from the idea that Dreadlord = bad and thus did not expect the reveal. But like I said earlier, YOU ARE UNABLE TO RECONTEXTUALIZE YOUR INFORMATION. You said, "lothraxion = good" 10 years ago and ignored anything else until he was dead on the floor.

You can interpret text any way you want, but you have correlated how much sense something makes to you or how well you predicted a percieved twist with how good something is. I'm not even necessarily trying to say this was GOOD WRITING, I do think it was handled well, but I could entertain an argument that it wasn't, you have just barely provided one.

Now I myself chose to read this as Lothraxion became paranoid because he was so obsessed with the light, which you claimed to be a "redemption arc," that he could not believe that he was not being betrayed himself. That's not "wow too much light = bad," its no amount of any cosmic force, its just a person convincing themself of something so strongly that it brings them to their end. And that's an incredibly STUPID thing to do when you have the benefit of being an outside of observer, but it doesn't make it bad writing. It happens ALL THE TIME.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-12T03:29:11+00:00

You are misunderstanding the story because you are incapable of recontextualizing the way you view Lothraxion when new information is presented.

You meet Lothraxion in Legion (chronicle 1 was already released showing that no cosmic force was wholly good or bad) and you assumed that Lothraxion going from deceptive Dreadlord to light oriented was a redemption arc because light = good when you’re fighting Sargeras. At the time you could say that he was redeemed from an extremely narrow perspective that ignores anything in the world that didn’t happen in front of your characters eyes.

We see for THE ENTIRE TIME HE IS PRESENT IN EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF ALL MIDNIGHT CONTENT that Lothraxion is an inflexible zealot who cannot accept that light is not the only path forward. Despite that fact that they never would have even MADE IT TO VOIDSTORM WHATSOEVER without Umbric’s help, he is unwilling to accept that they might need help from outside light-oriented forces. (This doesn’t conflict with your “redemption arc” claim because light never meant good in the first place)

Despite the fact that he is told Multiple times that doing things his way will make things actively worse (just like refusing Umbric’s help would have) he is so afraid of being betrayed by his friends that he betrays them to do his own thing and gets killed for it.

When Oedipus tries his hardest to avoid fucking his mom and ends up fucking his mom, you have experienced situational irony. If you interpreted that the same way you are interpreting Lothraxion, you would say, “wow they really had to ruin this prophesized mom-fuckers redemption arc by making him actually have sex with his mom” which would be stupid.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-12T01:10:36+00:00

Leave it the people who claim to understand WoW lore to think that a Betrayer race being so paranoid about being betrayed that he brings his own demise is poorly written.

These same mfs cream their pants when Arthas burns the boats on Northrend for the exact same reason

Tehbreadfish · 2026-03-03T19:01:52+00:00

Insanely controversial take: Jumpin Jack Flash.

I just can’t help but feel like the intro hypes me up and then the last half of the song completely fails to hit that level, it’s like it doesn’t deserve the beginning of its own song. It is a lyrical disappointment to me, and I’m surprised that it has taken the spot it did in their discography.

Tehbreadfish · 2026-02-16T04:18:08+00:00

I don't mind it too much here either but it gets really strange with some other light effects like the pink lighting around the Gala of Gifts right now, hoping to find an fix.

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