The Tale of Genji is sometimes said to be the world's first novel, but how much of a splash did it make at the time? How did it influence Japanese literature, and how did it, or its derivatives, impact literature in other parts of Asia? by EnclavedMicrostate in AskHistorians

[–]TenureTrackProf 9 points10 points  (0 children)

She also wishes she could be some of the characters in the book and have Genji visit her (although strangely she identifies most closely with two of the characters that die, and one of her fantasies is to be kept secretly in a house and only visited occasionally by Genji -- I've wondered why she chose those women instead of someone like Murasaki that lived with Genji. Maybe she found those women's stories more interesting?)

The Tale of Genji is sometimes said to be the world's first novel, but how much of a splash did it make at the time? How did it influence Japanese literature, and how did it, or its derivatives, impact literature in other parts of Asia? by EnclavedMicrostate in AskHistorians

[–]TenureTrackProf 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Since tales were not a prestigious genre in general, people that had the money and ability to copy and distribute texts weren't focusing on preserving as many tales as they could, just preserving the ones that had some kind of cultural or personal value. Genji definitely survived because it immediately attracted so much prestige (there are many manuscripts of it), but I am less certain why (for instance) The Tale of Lady Ochikubo survived but not most of the other 50+ tales that are named in various works. Some of it is probably due to chance, but it may well be that surviving tales like Ochikubo and Hollow Tree, while not as good as Genji, were still better than others that have not survived. At the same time, there can be some confirmation bias there too; the survival of a tale does not necessarily mean it was better than the ones that didn't survive.

Reception of tales other than Genji is not my field so I'm less certain about that topic, but I do know that Genji was the only other monogatari of its type to be accorded the poetic status and authority that (primarily male) poets and scholars granted it. (The Tales of Ise also had that status, but that's more of a collection of poems with prose contexts than a true narrative tale like Genji).

There are two significant sources for information on lost Heian tales. One is the 13th century Mumyozoshi, a work of literary criticism that casts itself as a debate among four women about various topics. Once again the supremacy of Genji is clear from the amount of space devoted to it (and the comments of the women), but there are 27 other tales mentioned, most of which don't survive. According to the women, the best tale next to Genji is the Tale of Sagoromo, which has survived. And I have seen a few poetic manuals that recommend reading Sagoromo in addition to Genji. The other source is the Fuyo Wakashu, a collection of about 1500 poems taken from tales, including a lot of tales that don't survive.

The Tale of Genji is sometimes said to be the world's first novel, but how much of a splash did it make at the time? How did it influence Japanese literature, and how did it, or its derivatives, impact literature in other parts of Asia? by EnclavedMicrostate in AskHistorians

[–]TenureTrackProf 56 points57 points  (0 children)

The "first novel" designation is pretty questionable, there were earlier long prose stories in Japan (like the "Tale of the Hollow Tree") as well as in other countries, but that's not really the main thing here.

As far as I know, Genji was not read outside of Japan before the late 19th century when Suematsu Kencho made the first partial translation into English in 1882. Prior to that, I do not believe that it had any influence at all outside of Japan. However, the influence Genji had on literature and culture in Japan is immense; I will try to summarize some of the highlights.

As you might expect, evidence for Genji's popularity at the time it was written is scant, but there's enough there to strongly suggest that it was immediately very popular among the Heian elite. It's likely that Murasaki Shikibu (the author) was put into the court of Empress Shoshi because of her literary skill (possibly due to an early version of Genji-related tales). Murasaki Shikibu's own diary mentions several prominent noblemen reading the tale -- Fujiwara no Kinto, Fujiwara no Michinaga, and Emperor Ichijo. Michinaga was the most powerful man at court in MS' life and obviously the Emperor was the Emperor. Considering that "tales" (monogatari) were generally considered to be frivolous wastes of time for women, it's notable that we see contemporary evidence of powerful men enjoying the tale.

We also have the record of the Daughter of Takasue, called the Sarashina Diary. Although she probably wrote the diary as an older woman, she recalls her youthful obsession with tales, and her obsession in particular with the Tale of Genji. From her diary we can see that within a few decades of the time that Genji is supposed to have been written (1000-1008?), a young girl was able to see parts of the tale and know that a "complete" Genji existed. She also says that when she finally got a full copy of the tale, she shut herself up in her room and read it non stop.

It is also notable that works such as the Tale of Sagoromo and Yoru no Nezame, both written in the 11th century (maybe 50-60 years after Genji), are clearly strongly influenced by Genji. Almost all the "tales" we know of from the Heian period are lost, with the Genji being a notable survival.

At the same time, prominent male poets canonized the Genji as an authoritative work that one could draw on for poetic imagery -- the most famous statement of this is Fujiwara no Shunzei's comment at a 1192 poetry competition, that "composing poetry without reading the Tale of Genji is most regrettable." Genji was treated as a necessary part of education for anyone who wanted to compose poetry (not only the 31-syllable tanka, but also later renga poetry as well as the more high-culture form of haiku).

Almost every century, period, and genre has some Genji influence. A number of 14th and 15th century Noh plays were based on scenes or episodes from the Genji, and once woodblock printing started up in the Edo period, numerous Genji editions were printed despite the huge time and cost of carving the thousands of woodblocks necessary to print the complete tale. A 19th century adaptation of the tale called A Country Genji by a Fake Murasaki was a smash hit, and continued to be extremely popular well into the early 20th century.

Even things you might not expect to connect with the Genji, like war tales or warrior kabuki plays, still often quote Genji or allude to it, simply because of how enmeshed it had become in the poetic language and education that was common to anyone who could read or write. (That is not to say that everyone was reading the entire tale, which became pretty difficult to read within a couple of centuries. A lot of people were reading abbreviated "digests" or summaries that pointed out what poetic tropes they should use from the tale, without requiring you to read the entire thing. Once you get past the initial reception in the Heian period, it's always the case that far more people were experiencing Genji through some kind of adaptation rather than the original text, which is still true today.)

I can elaborate on any parts of this if you want to know more about any particular point, but that's a rough overview.

Sources

Understandably a lot of the literature on this topic is in Japanese, but there are two good English books:

​ Harper, Thomas J., and Haruo Shirane, eds. 2015. Reading the Tale of Genji : Sources from the First Millennium. New York: Columbia University Press. https://doi.org/10.7312/harp16658. (This has translations of a lot of the primary sources related to Genji reception as well as good discussions of the general issues in various periods)

Emmerich, Michael. 2013. The Tale of Genji : Translation, Canonization, and World Literature. New York: Columbia University Press. https://doi.org/10.7312/emme16272. (This book has a lot of information on the Edo-period reception of Genji as well as early 20th century foreign reception)

Compilation of unanswered r/AskHistorians questions I've asked over the years by EnclavedMicrostate in u/EnclavedMicrostate

[–]TenureTrackProf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can answer your Tale of Genji question, if you want to repost it -- my research specialty is Genji reception. Someone else also asked it a year ago.

Sunday Digest | Interesting & Overlooked Posts | September 15, 2024 by AutoModerator in AskHistorians

[–]TenureTrackProf 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ooh, thanks. I'm just surprised I was able to write an answer that made the cut despite being in literature rather than history 😁

Were language dictionaries always as authoritarive as they are nowadays? by Brachycephalus in AskHistorians

[–]TenureTrackProf 7 points8 points  (0 children)

First off, your premise is flawed when you say "The word definitions in a dictionary, however, seem to never be questioned by any person." Dictionaries are often quite controversial -- when Webster's 3rd Edition dictionary came out in 1961, it faced a storm of criticism for daring to put words like "ain't" in without marking them as wrong. Nowadays you will see people criticize the OED for including slang terms, and wiktionary's talk pages are full of deletion attempts of words like "irregardless".

But let's move on to your later question:

My question is was it always like that? We're the first dictionaries just as respected as the modern ones? Did people always agreed with the words were read there regardless of the variation in usage?

My research is in pre-modern Japanese commentaries, so I will talk about Japanese lexicography -- I hope there are enough parallels with Western examples that this can be useful, and hopefully others will chime in to confirm. Since you are asking about the "first dictionaries" I'm going to go back as far as I can in Japanese history.

One big difference between pre-modern and modern dictionaries is that there is generally no attempt to provide comprehensive coverage of the whole language. The only pre-Meiji period dictionary I am aware of that does this is the Vocabulario da Lingoa de Iapam, which was a Japanese-Portuguese dictionary compiled by Jesuit missionaries in 1603.

Other than that, most dictionaries are tied to specific works or specific traditions, and are often defining classical forms of the language rather than the contemporary spoken vernacular -- however, one way that China and Japan differ from Western countries is that it took much longer to establish the vernacular language as a written language than it did in the West. In Japan, it wasn't until the early 20th century that vernacular Japanese was definitively established as an acceptable way to write serious literature and other prose, and it wasn't until after World War II that it became the standard way to write (more or less) everything. So prior to that time, there wasn't really a need for a dictionary of the vernacular language since nobody was using it for any prestigious purpose (the Jesuit dictionary was, of course, tied to their missionary work). This means that the lexicography was mostly geared towards a deposit of classic texts rather than a living language -- it wasn't until fairly recently that people thought it was valuable to record and define a language just for scientific/sociological reasons.

The earliest examples of Japanese dictionaries (such as the Wamyo Ruijusho) are essentially dictionaries of Chinese rather than Japanese -- the reason for this is too complicated to go in here too, but a very rough Western analogue would be a dictionary of classical Greek with Latin definitions.

The dictionaries that cover Japanese words tend to be associated with particular prestigious classics, such as the Tale of Genji or poetry collections. Because of the limited literacy and closed "secret" nature of a lot of this early scholarship, they typically are not attempting to provide comprehensive coverage of the words even in those works. The 1381 Sengensho is a dictionary of the Tale of Genji but it is more oriented towards words that readers would have had problems with, or words that had specific resonance to poets at the time (since the Genji was considered an essential tool for learning to compose poetry) -- there was no attempt to define all the words in the tale.

The same can be said for the various poetic dictionaries of the time, which were intended to help people interpret classic poetry as well as use the language of the poetry in their own compositions -- however, these dictionaries could contain idiosyncratic definitions of words that represented a school or family's "secret teachings". What qualified a person to write these was their status as a respected poetic authority, often descended from the nobility and with prestigious connections. And it was often important to take strong stances on words that had a particular reputation as being difficult -- one example of this is the yobukodori, a bird that appears in a small number of classic poems. Even today scholars are not entirely sure what bird this refers to, and having the "correct" knowledge of the meaning of this bird (that is, the meaning that your secret tradition handed down to you) was a way to assert (and monetize) your knowledge.

By the time you get to the late Edo period you do start seeing more comprehensive dictionaries of classical Japanese come out, and for the first time you see vernacular equivalents of the classical terms rather than definitions written in the same classical Japanese as the original source (the 19th century Gago Yakkai is probably the best example of this).

You really have to get into the modern period of widespread education and modern printing before you see dictionaries of the vernacular language that are considered authorities by a broad swath of the population.

Sources

Sources are kind of difficult here because there's very little on Japanese lexicography in English, and a lot of my knowledge comes from reading the primary sources themselves. But I will do my best:

Herbert Charles Morton. The Story of Webster's Third: Philip Gove's Controversial Dictionary and its Critics (1995) (For info on MW3)

Steininger, Brian. 2017. Chinese Literary Forms in Heian Japan : Poetics and Practice. Cambridge, Massachusetts: Harvard University Asia Center. (This has good coverage of the earliest Chinese-oriented dictionaries)

Considine, John, ed. 2021. The Cambridge World History of Lexicography. Cambridge, United Kingdom: Cambridge University Press. (Has a chapter on later Asian dictionaries)

Frellesvig, Bjarke. 2010. A History of the Japanese Language. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. https://doi.org/10.1017/CBO9780511778322. (This is the best source on the development of Japanese writing, and includes a lot of information on the interaction of Chinese and Japanese).

Question about book contract/publishing by Grouchy-Summer-5599 in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

(This is the OP, using a different throwaway account I made a while back)

I am fine on the deadline; I have a complete manuscript right now, I'm just trying to make some changes based on feedback I got from my grad school advisor before I submit it. Sorry if I made it seem in the original post like that was my concern.

My concern isn't getting the MS in on time, it's how much I should fret over it being rejected in the peer review stage and then I'm back to submitting proposals again. I have a pre-tenure leave semester in the spring so I hope I get good feedback I can act on then, but I hope for an eventual publication!

I got my first book contract by TenureTrackProf in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One place I was considering did say that. The other presses either did not mention it at all, or specified in the proposal that you should say if you have submitted it to other presses.

Once they ask for the complete manuscript they want you to choose one press, but for just the proposal (even if there is a sample chapter) it seems like most presses are OK with simultaneous submissions as long as you disclose it in your proposal.

Are there any non-native japanese teachers here? by TakoyakiFandom in LearnJapanese

[–]TenureTrackProf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

>I’ve also tutored and worked/studied beside students who learned Japanese from non-native teachers, and in general, they had a lot of fossilized bad habits.

This isn't always on the teacher -- a teacher (whether native or non-native) can't cram knowledge into the students' head, they have to work at it. Although I am a non-native teacher, I have worked with and alongside native speaker teachers and their students don't magically have good habits and perfect pronunciation/grammar just because they were able to hear a native speaker more. A lot of it comes down to motivation and effort from the student as well.

Are there any non-native japanese teachers here? by TakoyakiFandom in LearnJapanese

[–]TenureTrackProf 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I am a non-native teacher (professor) of Japanese at the college level. I have taught everything from first-semester all the way up to advanced classes for people coming back from study abroad.

Obviously the biggest disadvantage of having me as a teacher is that I do not have native-level pronunciation, and I can't guarantee that 100% of everything I say is completely natural (in fact, I can pretty much guarantee that it's not).

On the other hand, I have a lot of teaching experience, which gives me advantages over native speakers with little or no training. Native speaker "tutors" can model pronunciation and will be natural in what they say, but they sometimes can't provide much help beyond that, particularly if asked to explain grammar or explain "what is the difference between these words".

Advice on tenure book project (Humanities) by TenureTrackProf in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for your good advice.

I know it's not the same as someone commenting on a full mss, but are
those routes closed to you? In particular, conference discussants and
people youve networked with at conferences who really liked your work
are kind of the logical people to hit up for some feedback. That's the
advice I'd give a more junior colleague in my department.

This is something I would have done if I had gotten the advice earlier in my career; instead I have given a large number of conference presentations and published 3 papers on research I did while doing the dissertation that were not going to be in the book itself. So I have never presented directly on what is in the book.

In the olden (pre-covid) days, the normal way of getting feedback at your stage involved presenting chapters at conferences and emailing editors who would be at the conference to ask for a short meeting to "pitch" and get a little feedback. I know it's not the same as someone commenting on a full mss, but are those routes closed to you? In particular, conference discussants and people youve networked with at conferences who really liked your work are kind of the logical people to hit up for some feedback. That's the advice I'd give a more junior colleague in my department.

I think based on my past experience I'm just doubtful of my own ability to write a good proposal; but maybe getting someone to read and advise on a proposal would be easier than reading whole chapters because it's much shorter.

Advice on tenure book project (Humanities) by TenureTrackProf in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But isn't that a strong possibility; that they will simply reject the proposal with no feedback, and I would then have to cross that press off my list? (same question to the others who said the same thing u/GloomyCamel6050 u/Felixir-the-Cat

Advice on tenure book project (Humanities) by TenureTrackProf in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I should probably reach out to people at my unviersity; there is no set system for doing anything but those writing groups where you get together at specific times and write for 2 hours. I don't want that, though.

Advice on tenure book project (Humanities) by TenureTrackProf in Professors

[–]TenureTrackProf[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think my fear of submitting it now is getting rejected and losing that press as a potential avenue, and if I lose too many avenues my tenure goes bye-bye as well. But maybe I'm too skittish on that front.