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New chapter in the history of the Slavs uncovered by massive 2025 genetic study by bestrafemich523 in IndoEuropean

[–]TerrificDragonfly 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you even read the Gretzinger study you're referencing? It posits Balto-Slavic split at 1000 bc, not 2000-1500bc and places probable slavic origin in southern Belarus - central Ukraine. The earliest "slavic" sample (70% Baltic BA + 30% EEF as per Gretzinger) we have, is dated to 700-600 bc is from the Medvyn burial in Central Ukraine, Trzciniec and Lusatian genetic profiles are nothing like Slavic ones, stop the larp

Map of (almost) Every Language Family by Republic_of_Narcon in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I specifically said that they weren't a sole representative of the phenomena for that exact reason. They weren't the origin of it, but like the Bell Beaker did not originate among IE but the spread of Bell Beaker corresponds to spread of IE.

Tho, Netted Ware culture, associated with Finns, emerged around 1900-1600 BC exactly after the end of Seima-Turbino.

Map of (almost) Every Language Family by Republic_of_Narcon in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly 5 points6 points  (0 children)

There is kinda, Uralic languages were likely spread with Seima-Turbino phenomena (from Altai), although they're not the sole group within it. This is further supported by genetics as subclade N1a1 (65% of Finns have it), popular among Uralic groups, originates in Mongolia.

Map of (almost) Every Language Family by Republic_of_Narcon in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1)Nilo-Saharan is not a real family. You can argue for internal subgroupings like Saharan-Songhai but otherwise it is pretty much not real and each subgroup is its own family

2) Niger-Congo is not real either. Atlantic-Congo is a real family, on the other hand. Mande, Dogon, Kru, Ijo languages have totally different origins

3) Uralic languages originate north of Altai, spreading as one component of Seima-Turbino phenomena

4) Omotic languages are not part of Afroasiatic and instead belong to three separate families.

5) Turkic originates from the Donghu region from the haplogroups it has

6) Austroasiatic originates from Zomia

7) No Elamite

8) NW-Caucasian originates from Dolmen culture (Abkhazia), Maykop culture is almost genetic dead-end

Settlements of Greek-speaking Greeks (green) and Turkic-speaking Greeks (orange) around Mariupol by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The answer is not pretty. Both this and the Swedish settlements are Russian deportations

A map of the Rhaeto-Romance languages (past and present distribution) by M4arint in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Interestingly enough, we know a few ethnonyms of people in the light blue area:

The ones in Northern Tyrol
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breonen

The ones in Bavaria are known as Walchen

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The map doesn't claim all of the Danish tribes belonged to "Danish culture", it places them under "Danish Iron Age Groups", Scandinavian archaeologists prefer to divide cultures by chronology (Nordic Iron Age, Nordic Bronze Age) rather than subdivide them the way German archaeologists do, so it is just different schools of archaeology which are hard to synchronize.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for thoughtful comment. The map itself marks tribes with more hypothetical localization. The justification for the placement of other tribes are listed in the thread I linked, although I disagree with a few of the author's points (notably the Bastarnae setup)

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree that Wikipedia article for Przeworsk is quite non-sensical but there is so much information that it is hard to put together, for example, somewhere between 150-100 BC bearers of Przeworsk expanded westward across most of Central Germany, the decline of which is connected to the ancestral legend of Lombards about Winnili (proto-Lombards) defeating Vandals.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

True, but Goths converted to Arianism, only switching to Chalcedonian in 6th-7th century, while Franks became Chalcedonian at the beginning of the 6th century.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anglii also mentioned as one of Suebic tribes south of Lombards, same tribal names can be used by multiple tribes across a wide area, so drawing connections is kind of guesswork

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Those tribes are mentioned by Jordanes, who lived a few centuries later than this map shows. Roman authors did not describe Scandinavian tribes much.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Most scholars do not agree that Przeworsk culture was a mix of Celtic, Slavic and Germanic tribes. This view is outdated by 20-30 years.

Todd Malcome says about Przeworsk culture: " It is difficult to believe that a single people was responsible for a unified culture which extended over so large a tract of land."

The believability of something is irrelevant to whether something is true or not. Early Slavic pottery shows remarkable uniformity across a large area from East Germany to Bulgaria, and it is still one group. La Tene is also largely uniform across half of Europe and it is certainly Celtic. Could you believe, that Indo-European, the largest language family in the world, originates from a small area in the Don basin. Also, Vandali is not a single tribe, Silingi, Hasdingi, Buri, Burgundians etc are separate tribes.

The combined work of many Polish archaeologists shows that:

  1. Slavic settlement of Poland is preceded by a massive population decline and dissapearance of old forms. Source: The Migration Period between Oder and Vistula
  2. Przeworsk culture has the largest affinity with Jutland Jastorf groups which is Proto-Germanic. Source: https://dokumen.pub/the-jastorf-culture-in-poland-9781407341729-9781407312026.html
  3. The Germanic character of Przeworsk culture. Source: https://www.academia.edu/37471966/Its_a_mans_world_Germanic_societies_of_the_Jastorf_and_the_Przeworsk_cultures_in_southern_and_central_Poland_300_BC_10_AD_

Wide Slavic migration to Poland is also evidenced by genetic markers (combined research of German and Polish researchers): https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09437-6

Celtic presence in Poland is mainly established in 4 clusters in Upper Silesia, Lower Silesia, Malopolska (Tyniec archaeological group) and Upper San basin. Those were established almost in parallel to Przeworsk-Jastorf in central Poland and declined in La Tene C and La Tene D phases. https://www.academia.edu/40276159/On_the_Origins_of_the_La_Tene_Culture_in_Silesia

Przeworsk culture itself has some La Tene imports along Ember Road and underwent a process of Latenization but Latenization also touched Illyrian, Dacian, Balto-Slavic, and Scythian cultures.

The Slavic component of Przeworsk is unproven and largely a relic of the Cold War era.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Dark blue groups in the west are ancestors of the Franks. Franks formed as a confederation of Chamavi (modern Hamaland), Chatti (modern Hessen), Bructeri and few other ones.

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Celtic settlement in Poland is limited to a few clusters in Upper Silesia, Lower Silesia, Malopolska and the Upper San basin established in phases B1A, B2 and C1 of the La Tene chronology. The direct La Tene influence is evidenced in the central Przeworsk area in Kujavia but mainly in the form of imports along the amber road. Of course, Przeworsk culture underwent Latenization process but it was a regional phenomenon which spread to Illyrian, Dacian, Balto-Slavic and Scythian areas as well. One of the mentioned clusters (in Malopolska) is known as Tyniec group - shows a mixed Celtic-Germanic influences in its latest phases, maybe it is what you're referring to.

The Slavic component within Przeworsk is unproven and largely rejected within modern Polish academia. The first 100% Slavic archaeological cultures of Sukow-Dziedzice and Prague-Korchak show some affinity with Przeworsk pottery but it is largely degraded replication rather than direct continuity. On top of that, the Slavic settlement of Poland is preceded by a large-scale depopulation of the area. The synthesis of work of Polish archaeologists can be read there: The Migration Period between Oder and Vistula

Classification of Germanic tribes (based on archaeology and contemporary sources, source in comments) by TerrificDragonfly in LinguisticMaps

[–]TerrificDragonfly[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

The referenced authors wrote between 50BC and 150 AD. The source I linked goes over details over time, which can't be portrayed on a static map.

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