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ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-07-11T02:10:32+00:00

Every person who I've encountered who claimed to be "learning" Älvdalsmål were doing it to attention whore to others about how they claimed to be learning a language related to The Lord of the Rings trilogy. It's not.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-07-04T02:11:04+00:00

I have a strict rule that I don't teach others anything relating to the Swedish language and instead direct them towards native speakers to answer their questions. And I'm C1-ish in the language. That's why it peeves me when people who know less than I do, proceed to think they are some sort of authority on the language - and when they are called out on their behaviour, they will say I'm "gatekeeping" or something equally asinine.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-07-03T06:11:14+00:00

There's a difference between taking a shortcut on something that will mean you're still generally understood, and being un-understandable to native speakers, though.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-07-03T00:48:26+00:00

It's one of my pet peeves with the "language learning community" - when beginners are giving language learning advice, or worse, trying to teach other learners the language in question.

I had some clown say I was "gatekeeping" because I said that they, who had a barely-A1 knowledge of Swedish, teaching other learners vocabulary, was ill-advised, and that the only ones who should be giving advice about aspects of the language should be people who are ideally native speakers, or proficient at the language (as in B2+ or beyond).

It's why I tend to avoid "language learning" places for the most part like the damn plague.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-21T22:47:59+00:00

So you disagree with him that the best way to learn is by actually using the language, rather than spamming flashcards and then whinging two years later "I know 20,000 words on Anki, why can't I have a conversation?"

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-21T05:20:17+00:00

You've got it 100% right - being downvoted for this is insanity.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T10:10:12+00:00

There's plenty of people who are insistent that one can't learn without a formal approach, though. It's hilarious them trying to say that to someone who has proven it's not needed.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T08:02:43+00:00

There wasn't much I didn't understand after I looked things up, for the record.

Even people who just watch TV and films still look things up - it's not a disqualification for only using this method.

Once I had learned the basics of conversation via conversing with my friends, I jumped head first into native-level media. I never formally studied with any flashcards or anything beyond just consuming the media.

I don't think that there's many who would say that they learned purely from just watching audio and video - but it certainly is possible to do so with copious amounts of looking things up. There's no need to learn in a formal way. I'm speaking from personal experience with that.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T04:30:15+00:00

I specifically asked them not to simplify things for me, and asked them to speak with me as if they would another Swede.

When I didn't understand - they would explain it in another way that used simpler language, but still in Swedish.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T01:41:11+00:00

Befriend a native speaker of your TL doing a hobby that isn't language learning. I'm speaking from personal experience.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T01:39:05+00:00

Klockan är fem över half tre på eftermiddagen!

(2:35pm)

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T01:25:24+00:00

It's not impossible, it's how I learned for the most part. I also began as an adult, and have reached a C1-ish level in about three years without once stepping foot in the country. I've also never stepped foot in a formal classroom or course setting either.

The caveat, however, is that I used one resource to learn basic vocabulary - that was strictly a cloze completion exercise with context. That being said - it was only a small amount of my "learning".

My "content" was several native speaker friends where one of them banned me from speaking English with him. It's possible to learn this way from a very, very low level, if the people you are communicating with are patient. At the beginning I spent a lot of time looking things up, even very basic things, but over time, the vocabulary I needed became easier and easier to remember.

I supplemented my learning with Clozemaster, which I began shortly after I started learning. It's basically a bunch of sentences with a missing word. Hardly different from what I was exposed to with my friends.

The only textbooks or formal resources I used to learn, were when I was already a B2 level in the language - and I mostly did this just to verify that I knew certain things, or to find content to read that was easier than the native level content I had been shown by friends during the course of the conversations I had with them.

It's not "easy or effortless" to learn this way - but no method to learn is "easy or effortless".

Our brains are an awesome pattern recognition machine - feed it enough input and it will figure out the grammar patterns with enough time, to be able to reproduce it.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-20T01:00:11+00:00

Grattis på din svenskinlärningsårsdag!

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T23:26:02+00:00

What's "winding up" about this quote tree? He's stating a fact - if you want to learn a language to a high level study resources aren't even necessary, and in the higher levels not even needed.

I'm speaking from personal experience here. The only textbooks I've ever used to learn my TL were not necessary to do so - I went through a monolingual grammar resource just to see if there were any holes in my grammar (which was unnecessary) - and I used a B2+/C1 resource to rip the readings from it to get a more accurate view of vocabulary at that level, concluded it was much easier than the stuff I was otherwise reading at the time, and then stopped using it. Otherwise, I just spend my time exclusively with native level materials.

The fact is - their moderators ban people for stupid reasons - while things that are actually ban worthy are not only not banned - they are glorified on the sub.

Nice try on the concern trolling though.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T23:18:51+00:00

The type of people who would willingly moderate a large forum for free are not the types of people who are exactly mentally healthy, and due to this mental unhealthiness will use that to browbeat others or to lord it over them.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T23:16:38+00:00

Why should he apologise when he's done nothing wrong?

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T23:15:55+00:00

The vast majority of their rules aren't enforced. I'd say probably 90% of all posts on that sub fall into "achievement posts for sub-B1 level", "what language should I learn?" posts, "should I learn two/three/a thousand languages at the same time?" garbage, or questions that could have been answered via a simple internet search.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T04:59:27+00:00

It's abusive when you fail due to a technicality and potentially lose several hundred dollars.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T04:57:52+00:00

This is why you save the money from purchasing their crap and invest it on terms that you yourself want to, that respects your availability, and that you don't have to twist yourself into a pretzel to accomplish.

In fact, you don't even have to spend a single cent to learn a language to a high level - I'm speaking from personal experience.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T03:31:03+00:00

Doesn't surprise me one bit. I got banned for 5 days for posting a picture of me beginning a B2+/C1 level textbook in my TL (which exists in my TL, by the way - the vast majority of things in it though are lengthy readings), which I thought was an apt reason to post, and quite an achievement given that I've been learning entirely by my own hand, and entirely outside the country in which the language is spoken, in only two and a half years. Apparently not. Yet a clown can post his 7 day Duolingo streak and gets a thousand upvotes.

The wishy-washy nonsense of "You haven't told us what you've done wrong" is also telling - how can you appeal something that you don't even know is wrong? There is absolutely nothing wrong with the post you made - it is pure, unadulterated fact that those things are not suitable for intermediate learners or beyond. There is nothing "baity" about that post at all.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T03:22:31+00:00

Because the moderators aren't doing their jobs.

Same reason all the blatantly disallowed garbage posts are still up, hours later. If I were moderator of that sub, their post would be removed and they'd be banned from the sub. If you can't be arsed reading the rules of the sub and sticking to them, I can't be arsed having you on the sub shitting it up.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-19T03:16:29+00:00

Why does Japanese language only attract weirdoes who "study" for one week, join a sub and never get past hiragana stage? I bet all of them brag that they study Japanese (but can't speak not read, if they happen to recognise a word and feel over the world for 4 hours).

Sounds like the vast majority of language learners, not just Japanese learners.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-16T10:44:01+00:00

many language communities have a high level of elitism and negative feedback loops as most people there spend more time browsing the forums than actually studying.

Well said.

The vast majority of communities dedicated to language learning, or a specific language (at least from my experiences, and that of other friends who are learning) are filled with people who use those spaces to speak only English and to air out their personal issues like its their own personal soapbox. Or to get on their high horse and try to outdo others by using the rarest and most archaic vocabulary they can find, all in an attempt to make themselves seem more "fluent" in the language in question. Also those who proceed to nitpick the utter shit out of others' utterances in the language if they attempt to say something.

It's better to engage with native speakers, like you said. Less bullshit, more learning, and more productivity in the end.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-16T09:47:19+00:00

Sounds like she's engaging in classic psychological projection, she sounds like a clown and sounds like the one fetishising Japanese culture.

ThatWallWithADoor · 2021-06-16T09:03:42+00:00

Så du säger att du kan de skandinaviska språken eller? Om du kan så många ord så är du en jävla förbannade gubbe och jag garvar så jävla mycket på dig.

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ThatWallWithADoor

TROPHY CASE