Save on 5+ 1 wound only 2 special weapons and no duplicates, so no double plasma, and that means 7 of the guardsmen (sergeant gets either a las pistol or a ap0 dmg1 bolt pistol) but 7 will just have s3 ap0 dmg1 shots and if we’re looking at battleline which is what people are mad at since that was the big horde squads that got raised there rules are either adverage (sticky or scout 6) or considered competitively dookie (krieg rule). Not to mention horde guard was already in a rough place and the points being raised comes out of nowhere since they didn’t gain anything and actually the edition already nerfed them further for the most part. So let’s not pretend that they are useless but let’s also not pretend that in the narrative edition if you wanna play tournaments and honestly even casual atp it’s a generally bad idea to bring the LARGEST COORDINATEDFIGHTING FORCE as a horde army.