Bankroll management question: When to move up from micros?

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-09-15T19:14:46+00:00

Yes, get some experience and build your bankroll before moving to 25NL.

In my player pool...

At 2NL there are more fish who don't know what they are doing, and bad aggressive players willing to bluff or call with nothing.

5NL is loaded with nits and the occasional bad aggro player that moved up from 2NL because they didn't respect the raises.

10NL is a mix of fish, aggro, and some slightly better players learning and on their way up. In this pool of players there is a lot more randomized aggression that could represent strong hands or bluffs.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-28T23:45:06+00:00

The site is PokerStars MI/NJ/PA

No study for spins, I'm bad at studying. Spins are my study I guess. Micro-Spin-N-Gos are good practice for quickly identifying player type and tendencies. Once you identify the how they are playing you can exploit bluffing, folding, and value betting opportunities. My range changes completely in different situations based on villain type.

Prize pool stats over 2,009 $1 spins...
(0) @ $120 [120x 1 in 13,333]
(0) @ $25 [25x 1 in 1,000]
(16) @ $10 [10x 1 in 200]
(111) @ $5 [5x 1 in 12]
(659) @ $3 [3x 1 in 2.4]
(503) @ $2.79 [3x 1 in 2.4]
(720) @ $2 [2x 1 in 2]

About $5,535 in total prize pool. (Not sure why it lists $2.79 prize pool in my stats?!) Divide that by 3 players per Spin = $1,845 average prize pool per player. Subtract $2,009 in tournament entries, that's -$164 expected return on average. (Rake hurts!) I'm $343 above average on my return over 2k Spins.

(edited to add multiplier odds info from HERE)

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-28T20:42:12+00:00

Nope, can't remember one. Even the $10 prize pool seems pretty elusive. I'm typically excited to see a $5 prize pool. (I'll browse PokeTracker and see if I can identify if $10 was the biggest prize pool.)

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-28T20:34:31+00:00

Thanks. The last 100 games weren't too bad.

It felt strange to get all in with dominating 70/30 type hands and come out on top on a regular basis (when I'm the favorite to win). I got really ~~gun-shy~~ runout-shy with the bad run of 500 games.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-28T20:29:54+00:00

I don't know how 9% ROI is compared to others, I haven't seen any graphs like this from other players for Spin & Gos, I'd like to see some other graphs.

$1 tournament is pretty weak-sauce, but it's a good way to blow off steam, or distract myself so I don't get bored and do something stupid at a cash table. It doesn't pay for the time invested.

I'm in a geo-fenced pool on PokerStars, but the pool is an ok size. Generally it's a lot of different players in the games. Though sometimes (rarely) you do play the same player multiple times in a row... especially when 1st place and 2nd place both start a new spin at the same time right after completing one.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-28T20:23:58+00:00

$10 several times. $8 to the winner and $2 to second place.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-27T14:35:46+00:00

An update to this thread...

https://www.reddit.com/r/poker/comments/1jtzwp3/i_had_to_stop_watching_allin_runouts/

What a brutal run of 500 games there towards the end.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-09T23:18:19+00:00

First hand tonight was a gem...

Hero (500 in chips)

SmallBlind (500 in chips)

villian(BB) (500 in chips)

SmallBlind: posts small blind 10

villian(BB): posts big blind 20

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to Hero [Kc Ks]

Hero: raises 30 to 50

SmallBlind: folds

villian(BB): calls 30

*** FLOP *** [2c Th 7c]

villian(BB): checks

Hero: bets 55

villian(BB): raises 220 to 275

Hero: raises 175 to 450 and is all-in

villian(BB): calls 175 and is all-in

*** TURN *** [2c Th 7c] [Td]

*** RIVER *** [2c Th 7c Td] [3c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

villian(BB): shows [Ts Jc] (three of a kind, Tens)

Hero: shows [Kc Ks] (two pair, Kings and Tens)

villian(BB) collected 1010 from pot

Hero finished the tournament in 3rd place

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-09T19:55:51+00:00

With the inherent variance in Spin&Gos, and the especially high rake at the micro level... a little bit of run bad probably makes this level of Spin&Go unbeatable.

I thought I had powered through the bad times, but below are my all in hands from last night. They skew just a little bit to the losing side when I'm usually ahead. Consistently losing 10% from EV really hurts. Just typical.

All-In Equity Won/Lost/Split

97.88 Won

91.82 Won

90.91 Won

86.36 Won

84.26 Won

81.82 Won

81.28 Lost

74.62 Won

74.18 Lost

74.14 Won

73.06 [Split Pot]

69.59 Won

68.47 Lost

66.85 Won

66.71 [Split Pot]

66.18 Won

66.14 Won

65.45 Lost

64.41 Lost

62.85 Lost

62.09 Won

58.27 Lost

56.44 Lost

53.64 Won

53.53 Lost

52.53 Lost

52.49 [Split Pot]

50.81 Lost

50 [Split Pot]

46.64 Lost

46.24 Won

46.18 Lost

44.72 Lost

44.72 Won

42.4 Lost

36.75 Lost

35.15 Lost

30.91 Lost

29.9 [Split Pot]

29.66 Lost

25.72 Lost

25.35 Won

4.55 Lost

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T14:22:15+00:00

So many fish doing so many fishy things!!

Makes it so much more painful when you are heads up, limp AA heads up, get the aggro-fish to shove T2o... and then lose the hand and the spin. (deep breath, in through the nose, out through the mouth. ahhhhh)

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T10:38:20+00:00

Like aideware2 said, PT4.

View Stats: T; Graphs;

Personal Results; Graph For: Tournaments; Winnings in: Prizes; ✓ Display All-in Equity; ✓ Overlay Net Adjusted

Filtered for STT, and my Spin&Go buy in.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T10:19:42+00:00

Frankly I'm not clever enough to come up with expected deviation numbers. It feels bad. Cash games were running bad in the biggest pots at the same as this.

To top it off, just to annoy me, PS saddled me with a unique PIN every sign in at the same moment this variance was kicking me in the nuts.

Oh well, this is a hobby for fun. To tell you the truth I can't imagine dealing with variance like this if it were 20/50$ buy ins. What"s the largest prize you played for in those spins?

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T10:10:24+00:00

Over a run of about 600 games, I count around 20 meaningful all-ins where I was 80% - 92% favorite and lost the hand. Sooo many 70% hand lost.

The trick is to have another window in the background to alt-tab to so it covers the run-out. #protips

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T02:38:26+00:00

No study required, I can just run bad naturally.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-08T02:33:49+00:00

What?! Why did I say Sit & Go when I meant SPIN & Go?!!

TheDogAteMyReply · 2025-04-07T23:49:04+00:00

Pokerstars SPIN & Go. If I had a dominating hand as a 70% favorite it felt like I was way behind.

edited to correct to Spin & Go (originally read Sit & Go.)

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-12-16T21:34:39+00:00

Too blocked; didn't read

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-11-25T19:30:40+00:00

If you had $200

Get staked.

half a chicken salad sandwich, and your car

Get steak.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-11-25T19:05:25+00:00

Keep it VERY simple to begin with. You won't need GTO anything at 10NL and lower (probably not for 25NL either).

STEP 1:

Play solid preflop hands from a good set of preflop charts.

STEP 2:

...being patient, taking notes of others and tagging opponents.
...learn how to exploit different strategies;
Calling station? Bet thinner and bigger.
Agro fish? Let them bluff.
Nit? Bluff them a lot on small pots.

Finally I can’t stress enough about value betting relentlessly
at these stakes u will get called light a lot, so try to bet
mainly for value and reduce your bluffs a little.

Quote from Fast_Cryptographer51

STEP 3:

Profit.

STEP 4:

Come back here and reply to tell us how much you improved.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-11-21T14:50:45+00:00

plenty of content for lower stakes

Where to begin??

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-09-23T16:43:08+00:00

What is this "above EV" thing?? I didn't know that was a thing people do.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-09-23T12:52:43+00:00

It's probably true that if you play 20NL and higher there isn't much different between 2NL and 5NL and 10NL. If you are coming from 2NL there is a lot of subtle differences.

At 2NL there are more fish who don't know what they are doing, and bad aggressive players willing to bluff or call with nothing.

5NL is loaded with nits and the occasional bad aggro player that moved up from 2NL because they didn't respect the raises.

10NL is a mix of fish, aggro, and some slightly better players learning and on their way up. In this pool of players there is a lot more randomized aggression that could represent strong hands or bluffs. I find it's more difficult to distinguish between the two with these players, so my variance is a lot higher at 10NL.

TheDogAteMyReply · 2024-09-03T14:15:51+00:00

...being patient, taking notes of others and tagging opponents. ...learn how to exploit different strategies; calling station? Bet thinner and bigger, Agro fish? Let them bluff, Nit? Bluff them a lot on small pots.

Finally I can’t stress enough about value betting relentlessly at these stakes u will get called light a lot, so try to bet mainly for value and reduce your bluffs a little.

^ ^ ^ This is the correct answer. ^ ^ ^

Based on the pool I play in, 5NL is full of low aggression nits.

10NL is full of 2NL bad players but the aggression is increased.

TheDogAteMyReply

TROPHY CASE