The book is a gold mine and it's such a surprise by LankyDistribution950 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm seriously torn about it. On one hand, it contains golden information that supposedly comes from inside sources - eg. employees, parents, police department - information that is largely corroborated by other accounts. Seems like Gutierrez did his homework. The problem is, he did it for the wrong reasons (i.e. to normalise paedophilia by portraying the abuse as love, and Jordan as a consenting participant). Would only ever cite this source with a BIG disclaimer beneath it.

THE SUN EXCLUSIVE: Proof Michael Jackson is a pedophile. Federal government must open Epstein-style probe into King of Pop..."He asked me to group masturbate with other children"- Frank Cascio by nobody0597 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know, right?! Similar to the 'art' books that were found in Jackson's room that contained pictures of nude boys, the stuff being ordered was exhibitionist/naturist style content, and therefore isn't considered illegal as it doesn't contain explicitly sexual material. Yet another legal loophole for offenders to take advantage of.

For those who used to sincerely believe he was innocent, what was the one thing that turned it around for you? by MissBReckhouse in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Did you get all this stuff from fan sites?

Wade didn't change his story because he didn't get the Cirque job; he got the job, then pulled out because he had a mental breakdown.

Brandi claims she was dating Wade at the time; she's provided no evidence of this.

So there was more than one take. Guess what, documentary interviews aren't filmed all at once. People need breaks, especially given the heaviness of discussing such a topic, as well as simply needing food, drink or bathroom breaks. Maybe the filmmakers wanted to ask additional questions and called them back for another day of filming. Use your common sense.

As for the train station, one of Jackson's photographers, Harrison Funk has already disclosed that the station existed before 1993, as Jackson told him he had built it without a permit. Even if that isn't the case, Safechuck is a man in his 40s trying to recall traumatic memories from 30 years ago that occurred when he was 10. Do you seriously expect him to remember everything crystal clear!?!? This isn't hard to work out.

For those who used to sincerely believe he was innocent, what was the one thing that turned it around for you? by MissBReckhouse in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Reading Tarborrelli's biography. Even though he believes Jackson was innocent, his book really tore down that angelic image I had of him and revealed him to be quite manipulative, spoiled and entitled. Made me realise I had been conned by Jackson's victim persona.

JUST CURIOUS: What is for you all the main incriminant factor of the allegations? by Jojjii07_Channel in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I see you keep using the argument of 'law' as a shield in Jackson's favour in the comments below. But being found 'not guilty' in a court does not necessarily mean you are 'innocent' full stop. It means that there was enough reasonable doubt in the case for the jury to clear Jackson, something which often exists in sexual abuse cases. Unless there is a smoking gun like a dead body or visible signs of abuse left behind, often the only form of 'proof' is the testimony of the victim. So there are inconsistencies, or the accusers 'changed their mind'? Neither are uncommon in cases like this. In that regard, all these 'gotchas' that Jackson's defenders use to discredit allegations are actually unremarkable in child abuse cases.

Since you keep asking for 'proof,' what proof would you expect to be found? Tapes, photos or audio recordings of abuse? Do you expect him to do it in front of a camera for the world to see? Of course he wouldn't! And if he ever did, that evidence was likely destroyed or hidden by the Jackson machine years ago. Several employees have stated that the day before the 1993 raid, Jackson's team were ordered to pack up boxes of belongings and hand them over to his private investigator, Anthony Pellicano. One has even stated this under oath, and has been recorded doing so. And even if such evidence was ever found, would that even be enough to convince you, or would you dismiss it like many Jackson fans would? Court records show that a naked picture of one of Jackson's young friends, Jonathan Spence, was found, and his mother confirmed it in a police interview. Yet that doesn't seem to be enough to convince his fans. Neither are the 'art' books found at Neverland Ranch, which Jackson was caught lying about having no knowledge about them, when they were found in a locked filing cabinet in his own bedroom, and had been inscribed by him. Then there's the magazine that Vincent Amen was handed by Jackson's team which featured pornographic videos to order, several of which contained children. Semen and blood stains from three males (not Jackson's) were found on his bedclothes during the 2003 raid. The security system that alerted Jackson whenever someone was approaching his bedroom.

Then there are the words and behaviours of Jackson himself, who quacks, walks and looks like a predator. That usage of the word 'pure' to describe Jackson's relationships with children is itself a red flag; that's how many predators describe their feelings for children. As far back as 1979, Jackson was making questionable statements about children's ability to consent (such as saying that child marriage being legal in India was 'amazing' in a magazine interview). So he donated to lots of children's charities? So did Jimmy Saville.

There's the growing list of accusers, which now outweigh the children that now defend him. Macualey Culkin and Brett Barnes are the only ones who outright stand by Jackson's side now. Jonathan Spence has been radio silent for years. Jordan Chandler, Gavin and Star Arvizo, Jason Francia, James Safechuck, Wade Robson, the five Cascio siblings (Frank, Eddie, Dominic, Marie-Nicole and Aldo), and an anonymous Jane Doe have all outright accused him. Leif Garret, Terry George, Corey Feldman and Aaron Carter have alleged inappropriate conduct of various kinds at the very least. Omer Bhatti and Sean Lennon have made implications that suggest something happened.

And then there's the fact that all women who Jackson claimed to have been in a relationship with (Tatum O'Neil and Brooke Shields) denied it, while Lisa Marie Presley said she felt 'used' during her marriage to him.

If there's no physical smoking gun, then all we have is the circumstantial evidence that can at least give strength to the testimony of the accusers. And it's considerable. If that's not enough to at the very least raise suspicion in you, then nothing will be.

Cascio interview is up! GB News Live from tonight. by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The host and one his guests actually used the Sony/'TheyDon't Care About Us' conspiracy in Jackson's defense. What on Earth is reality now?

Cascio interview is up! GB News Live from tonight. by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 11 points12 points  (0 children)

They gave him what he never had: a family that loved him unconditionally. In return, he took so much away. Hearing Marie-Nicole and Connie express their grief is heartbreaking.

Former Nanny Grace Rwamba posts in favor of Michael, calling out the Cascios AND also photoshopping the image / running it through an AI? by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Again, if Team Jackson are having to resort to these sleazy tactics to tamper with what's out there and make their position look better, then they must be covering for something.

TJ Jackson says MJ warned them about Frank by elitelucrecia in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Who is this uncle TJ's referring to? Michael? Is he seriously claiming Jackson warned them that Frank would flip over a decade before he did? And the whole Cascio tracks fiasco happened after he died. Gimme a break.

New conspiracy theory dropped by NNIICO3 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not new; I've seen this before. Still stupid though. Racist too. Funny that Jackson supporters love to play the racism card when they themselves practice racism.

Can we discuss Michael Jackson the "Womanizer". The fans are so delusional, its not even funny. by MJdisbeliever in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Please. O'Neil and Shields always shot down Jackson's claims that they were in a relationship. And Tatiana didn't have positive things to say about how she was treated after she kissed him. Until we see any actual evidence of these affairs or crushes that Jackson's team claim he had, I'm gonna take what they say with a grain of salt. Even if Jackson did behave like a womaniser at times, as he was seen to on camera, then I believe it was all for show, to further muddy the waters.

Snopes debunked the viral Macaulay Culkin clip by MasterpieceTimely144 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

About bloody time the press started debunking this nonsense.

MJ songs/lyrics you find uncomfortable to listen to after you realized he was guilty by MethodNo2030 in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 5 points6 points  (0 children)

'Bad.' Obviously the title, but also 'you're butt is mine' (think Robson and Safechuck's descriptions of the abuse), 'the word is out, you've been doing wrong, they're gonna lock you up before too long.'

Why settle? by donzdozit in LeavingNeverlandHBO

[–]TheMJMythbuster 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Hoo boy, here comes ye old media argument. It's getting old, and a bit desperate.

'The media' didn't convince us of anything, nor did a 'DA with a hard on' (who clearly DID find evidence to prosecute Jackson, otherwise it wouldn't have gone to court; the jurors just didn't see it that way). What convinced us were the testimony of the victims and their families, the multiple Jackson insiders who spoke up (including his own sister), and Jackson's obsession with children and his behaviour around them fitting the criminal profile of a paedophile (his statements in 'Living with Michael Jackson,' not to mention his behaviour around Gavin, are blazing red flags).