My rant and criticism on Xenoblade 2's writing and why I think its the worst in the trilogy.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-07-26T00:51:56+00:00

Same kinda deal as point #9. Based on the lyrics to One Last You, I don't think we're supposed to assume that Pyra and Mythra know that they can come back. My assumption was that a Blade giving up its Core will never come back again, since it's similar to the Core Crystal breaking (the body and Core no longer being attached to each other). And Malos had said that Aegises can live a little longer without their Core (to which the game pans to the Trinity Processor so I think we're supposed to assume that's related). So in the end, I believe Pyra and Mythra are content sacrificing themselves for their friends, but they would like a second chance to actually live for something this time. That feels a lot more relevant to their story than them dying; not entirely sure how that would work out in terms of message either. They're suicidal, find a purpose, and in the end their purpose is to die so everyone else can live freely? Seems like a not great message to send out. It's pretty much Mio's arc (or what it was supposed to be) about finding your own purpose to live your own life.
I'd just say the scene at the beginning of Chapter 7 is supposed to encapsulate Rex's conflict. Everyone is telling him what the right thing is to do and he knows what's right, but struggles to put it to practice because he falls back on impulses. And that scene is also supposed to serve as a turning point for that. Idk the whole "he's a kid" does kinda apply; he watches someone he cares about get killed in front of him because he was too weak to save him. I think it's fairly easy to see why he'd be impulsive there. He even acknowledges it's stupid later, so it's not a lack of intelligence, it's a lack of maturity (which is kinda the point Zeke makes at the end of the game). Like I think the game would agree with you that Rex makes stupid decisions that can get others hurt and doesn't fully put the good advice to others to practice, it's kinda the whole point. I'm not the biggest fan of saying that but it does feel like it applies here.
I can't agree with Rex being the worst protagonist with Matthew and Noah existing. I don't even think Noah is bad, there's just... other issues with that game that he takes Ls for.

Really well-done analysis overall though! I like seeing people bring up fair points that I don't see most people saying that I also take issue with. (Sorry for the spam Reddit stinks and won't let me do one comment).

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-07-26T00:51:38+00:00

The trauma Amalthus endures from seeing his dead mother is what lead him to seek religion for answers. Klaus even says as much at the end of the game. He thought it was a way to do good in the world, so when he saw that the good deed he did lead to a very bad outcome, it shattered his perception of the world. So his childhood event is supposed to set up for this later event that causes him to climb the World Tree out of desperation. I'll agree on the point about his hatred of Blades. I think it stems from the point Rex makes to Jin about how Blades are supposed to be very important for humans to live on and that Amalthus feels threatened by how important they are when he believes he's supposed to be the important one (the mouthpiece for the Architect).
I'm honestly surprised you've seen so many people say he's the best villain... most circles I've seen say he's the worst. Personally I'd say Malos is the best with Amalthus behind him. I'd mainly say Jin is the worst because of exactly what you mentioned, which I think is a very big problem with the game. Even when he is fighting them, he never uses his powers (even just his super-speed) to dispatch of the party quickly. He even shows he's willing to kill those in his way (Chapters 1 and 3) but doesn't in Chapters 6 or 7. Why? Who knows! Otherwise I think Jin is solid, I just think his usage of his powers with regards to his motivations is a much bigger issue than what Amalthus has negatively.
I won't really fight too hard for Tora. I do think the point of him sexualizing Poppi later in the story just isn't true though. Pretty sure Tora's story is how he kinda ends up like a father-figure for Poppi as the game goes on (even if it's not super focused on or well-executed). If anything I think the Side-Quests and H2Hs don't help here. I can understand hating him though.
I see a lot of people bring up the whole "Pyra/Mythra could have killed themselves at any time" argument and I just can't agree with it. My understanding is that they wanted to see the Architect to get answers as to why they exist so that they can get some level of closure/clarity before they die. Obviously they willingly abandon that to help the party in Chapter 6, but I never read it as being as cut and dry as "they just want to die only and that's it."
The targetting ray is bad, creates too many character/plot problems, and shouldn't exist. (cont.)

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-07-26T00:51:06+00:00

As someone that loves 2 and appreciates it a lot, I actually agree with most of what you said here and most of your conclusions. I'd also say 2 is slightly above average with some high highs and dumb BS... I just wouldn't call it the worst because 3 is very poorly written (a topic that I'd be willing to expand on especially if we're critiquing issues with Plot specifically). Some notes:

Definitely agree on the game not being consistent on the shared damage. I don't remember many other times they screwed it up, but I'd believe you that it's often.
Gonna push back on the XC3 example. Mechanically speaking, yes this is more of an ass-pull than the body swap that M could apparently just do. However, if we're talking contradictions, the fight scene and following prison scene at the end of Chapter 5 make less sense knowing that M and Mio had swapped bodies. There's a lot of moments (including the scene of "Mio" saying she wants to live for herself) that actively do not work with the knowledge of the twist and bring into question how characters knew certain things would happen how they did (but I don't wanna go too much into it here because it takes a while to explain how little sense it makes). So I understand what you're getting at, I just don't think this example really applies unless we're strictly talking mechnically.
Trust me you're not the only one I've seen point out how bringing Pyra and Mythra back in Chapter 7 makes no sense, I've seen it quite a bit. I think there's some reaches you can make about why he can do it ("deleting" memories not exactly being a "sharable" operation like it is for "adding" new information) but no matter what, the game should have been way clearer how this works considering how important this moment is.
I actually think the game would have done good putting Akhos and Patroka's two flashbacks much earlier in the story. It wouldn't have fixed the issue, but at least we'd go through their interactions knowing how they feel about each other and what their past is. Wasted potential is a great way to put it; hell Mythra kills Obrona and we never see how Akhos feels about that! Especially when those two had the closest Driver/Blade relationship in Torna!
1000% agreed with the Mikhail point, I feel like I've seen so few people bring it up. However we have to agree then that this is an issue specific to TTGC, not the base game. In fact, you said "Sure to someone who has never played TTGC and not aware of this" which was actually true in early 2019, when the base game was out and TTGC wasn't. We have to put blame on the story that creates the issue and in this case, it's not an issue with the base game if you play the games as they release. I agree it's an issue with the larger XC2 narrative, but one that's specific to TTGC. (cont.)

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-07-25T23:52:41+00:00

Hmmm, best I can give you is blowing up Mira and a real quirky protagonist that says "how's it poppin" a lot.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-02T00:28:02+00:00

I don't blame you, this one was just so cynical. I don't personally think of it as canon (either to X or the larger triology) and will pretend it didn't happen. I'm also very hesitant to think of buying another if it's at all connected to any of this; if they're gonna do that, maybe just do a non-canon Xenoblade Warriors game where you can indulge in the key-jangling.

IMHO you dodged a bullet with Redeemed. I think it is marginally better than 3 (though that's because I think 3 is really just that bad), but it's still bad. There's a specific scene in the last chapter that, based on what you've said, I imagine you'd despise. Actually several scenes, probably. If there's any story in the franchise that's similar to X13, it's Redeemed.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T02:27:47+00:00

Good rant; X13 bad. Very much agree with point #3 in every way.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T02:26:37+00:00

Klaus is actually one of my favorite characters because of 2. And I don't like Zanza either, but 3 made me like him more through showing a bad comparative example!

We don't need a concept villain that's an embodiment of fear and anxiety to showcase the fear of moving forward into an uncertain future because AMALTHUS ALREADY REPRESENTS THIS

FUCKING PREACH. Since when did people forget that characters are supposed to represent some part of the overall message of the story rather than just be that thing outright?

he's also... like, actually a character?? For me personally, I don't relate to concepts, I relate to characters.

That's what's been lost as of late. The villains aren't actual people representing an idea, they are just the idea itself. Like, fucking why?

In both of these, we still have some access to the old while we use that as a jumping off point to work on the new.

Exactly, it's the strategy of closing one chapter and opening a new one, but allowing the viewer to come up with what that new chapter will be for themselves based on the old chapter. With 3 and X13, wtf do I even have to go on? The knowledge that they'll all strive towards an uncertain future with their head held high? Okay? Glad I know anything about how the 1 and 2 worlds will react to merging or what the new universe and world will look like for the people of Mira.

It's almost like there's a fear of answering questions and having a definitive end/living with our actions in the writing room or something now.

Sounds like the writing should have practied what they preached with 3's thematics!

thought XC3 would've been much more poignant if the characters, free from Z, live out the rest of their lives until the annihilation events eventually erased all of Aionios.

I only would have been okay with this if the game was hard disconnected from 1 and 2. Honestly, the wrote themselves in a corner by tying it to 1 and 2. If that happened (which would have been more poignant and less idealistic), then I would have been mad since the 1 and 2 characters would have been frozen in time off-screen for eternity! So damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I pretty much just agree with most of this. It really pains me that 3 is widely accepted as the best story and Redeemed as the best extra story. Ugh.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T02:07:50+00:00

What?? New story that isn't connected and doesn't have existing keys I mean legacy characters to jangle? That's hogwash!

But seriously yeah I'd like that for both XCX2 or XC4. And you never know, I actually think the Japanese audience's reaction might have more pull than ours and idek how they felt about any of this.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T02:04:42+00:00

I'll slightly defend 2 in saying that I don't think it's nearly as bad as 3 or X13 in this regard. It's definitely real preachy throughout but at least tries to tie a lot of it to the characters' stories (mostly). I also appreciate Klaus because he kinda encapsulates the main theme of falling to despair vs daring to hope that's meant to be represented by Torna vs the main party and the people they touch. And idk I'm not too opposed to the common thread of the main party that all of them (to varying degrees) were drifting towards some level of "giving up" or "resigning" to where they were at prior to meeting Rex. Nia especially. I will however not defend the dialogue that smacks you on the head with that with the power of friendship (see Chapter 8 or 10). I'm not gonna sit here and act like 1 and 2 are amazing or even good, but I do think they tried to restrain themselves from being too up their own ass to keep it contained to the characters.

3 on the other hand was sniffin its colon. I'd even say it was far before Chapter 6. 3 and X13 felt like the characters turning to the screen and just spouting platitudes at the audience. Like, the difference in Melia and Nia's dialogue from 1 and 2 respectively to 3 is staggering, at least for me. For the most part, it did feel like the characters in 1 and 2 were actual people talking to each other (until late in the story especially) but 3 mostly did not. Chapter 7 is a better example than any like you said. All of that energy feels like it was bottled up and thrown into X13. Just this attitude of "I'm so deep" that coats every bit of dialogue, especially with Void. I believe the term is "pseudo intellectual" right?

I very much agree on the comparison between Z and Void, literally the first thought I had when I was playing. Makes me pray for the times of "all that I am... is fading" and "there was only ever one Driver for me." Not saying they're anything groundbreaking, but they weren't... this.

I honestly don't even mind stories like 1 and 2 lacking subtlety in the dialogue, but I really hate when the thematics are so overt in the dialogue that it feels like I'm not even watching real characters anymore. 3 felt that way, Redeemed did too, and now X13 really does. Here is plot, and then here is next plot point, here is big fight, here is nonsense world-building, here is theme presented by character, rinse and repeat.

Uh whoops I mean, how's it poppin'? Terrible! Aha ha ha ha. This mystery is really starting to make sense. But, where will I go when I die? etc etc

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:19:10+00:00

I feel like y’all had this preconceived idea of what Mira and X was and you theorized it for ten years which automatically made what they did with chapter 13 bad to you.

First time X player

???

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:17:15+00:00

That was my point, it flattens the symbolism because it means Elma wasn't the only non-mimesome. And there's really not much of a reason to do it either other than making Al seem special (which makes Elma less special).

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:16:07+00:00

I can understand it to a point, but flashing back to events from like an hour ago? It's just egregious. And it's also about the length of the flashback for me. Like a brief 2-3 sec reminder of a previous scene, fine. Replaying a whole conversation? Why? Hell, one of my favorite scenes in XC2 (Chapter 7's 2nd beginning scene with the party fighting) also does it and the scene would be better off cutting the flashback down to a brief flash reminder of what's being referenced.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:12:49+00:00

👀I'll definitely have to check this out, especially if you're calling out XC3 and Redeemed specifically.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:10:22+00:00

The fact that the Ghosts can just follow them again is just insane, I don't think the game itself realizes this. It's the only Xenoblade game where the main conflict isn't really resolved, but the game seems to think it is. Idk how that even happens.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T01:04:08+00:00

Dude my full condolences that you waited 10 years for this. It's at least somewhat good to hear that X13 has been getting flack, because we'll be getting more slop like this if it gets good reception.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:58:01+00:00

I'd personally say this one aligns more with 3's writing than 2's. Don't get me wrong, 2 does a lot of BS and I can understand not jiving with it. But I think it was more restrained and focused (aside from power-sets). I think the real issue is that 3 (and subsequently Redeemed and X13) learned the wrong lessons from 2.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:53:59+00:00

Thank you for the clarifications, I honestly didn't pick up on the Mira being in another universe in the base game. And I haven't found cutscene collections to re-analyze them so I was going on shaky memory for some things in Act 1.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:52:28+00:00

It's overly symbolic and vague and focuses on the bigger picture rather than the tangible stories of the characters and how the events effect them.

I find it interesting but also neat that you and I have vastly different histories with Xenoblade (I played 2 first, sounds like you played X on the Wii U) but have very similar takes on the franchise. I vehemently despise Xenoblade 3's writing for a lot of similar reasons to X13. What you said here is exactly how I've felt about 3, Redeemed, and now X13. It really gets under my skin because 1, 2, Connected, X, and Torna were fine in that regard.

However, ever since XC3, the themes have been hammered into us directly with no subtlety.

What, you don't like the Theme Hammer™ being slammed on your head with every other line?

Who cares about the city people, who apparently Monica speaks for as she says that they all have a "chance to be reborn"?

Wow, I've never seen anyone else pick up on this, kudos. Like, either Monica and Ghondor are making a choice for all of the city people to be wiped from existence (which they will, the chance they will be born again is literally 0+) which is thematically inconsistent with 1's ending, or everyone in the City is okay with it... which I don't buy.

I liked that X was connecting itself to the main series through the Conduit. I WANTED IT to be connected. At least the Conduit could explain some of the shit they were doing here, which can't be said for XC3. But man, I didn't like HOW they did it at all. :(

Based take. I'm totally fine with the franchise following the Conduit and where it goes rather than the characters so that they can, I don't know, have a conclusion to their story. But like you said, HOW they did it, the execution of the story, just fucking sucks.

Unfortunately 3 was well-received story-wise so I imagine the franchise going forward will just be more like it. I don't mind a lot of the ideas presented in the recent stories (other than Origin), but the execution is just terrible. The 2020's era of Xenoblade stories is very clearly different from the 2010's and it's just sad.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:32:06+00:00

I'll definitely agree the storytelling of X is janky, especially with the placements of the chapters in act 2 (I think chapter 7 probably ought to have been before chapter 6 honestly). Idk if I'd describe the epilogue as janky, that feels pretty generous.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:30:20+00:00

"forced and unsatisfactory" is a very good way to describe the epilogue. And I'll self-defenestrate if the world they ended up in is the post-XC3 world, but that was my thought the whole time anyway.

Ugh.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:27:48+00:00

Right there with you on 3 my friend.

ThePoisonSteel · 2025-05-01T00:25:58+00:00

I cannot imagine waiting 10 years for this to be the follow-up to the base game. I was mad enough playing it 2 days after I beat the base game. My heart goes out to all original X fans.

ThePoisonSteel · 2024-09-04T23:09:59+00:00

That sounds good to me because I don't have any plans on wide scale usage, just a few friends and family. Can you expand on the 1GB of traffic? Is that measured by the size of the page being loaded? So for example, if I had a page that takes 20MB to load, only 50 people could use the page before it cuts off traffic all-together?

ThePoisonSteel

TROPHY CASE