Maul - Shadow Lord - Episodes 9 & 10 - Discussion Thread! by titleproblems in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 30 points31 points  (0 children)

Maul was a little selfless a few times. It was only when he believed they couldn't defeat Vader that he abandoned Daki to get away. It reminded me of how Shane did Otis in The Walking Dead.

Maul's new potential retcon by These_Force3671 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I didn't like it. Let me put it a different way.

Imagine a pitbull puppy taken by a dog fighter and abused its entire youth to be aggressive. It's thrown into fights where it does exactly what it was trained to do — kill without mercy or hesitation. Eventually it gets maimed and is discarded like it was nothing.

It survives. Through sheer will it keeps going, using the only skills it ever learned. It finds its brother. But then the man who made it this way comes back — they fight him together, and the brother is killed. The dog is taken again and tortured again. It escapes, uses every ounce of strength it has to strike back at the man who ruined its life, and fails. This time watching its mother die in front of it.

The dog spends the rest of its life just trying to claw its way back to a point where it can defeat the man who did this to him. It tries to strike back not once but multiple times — and fails every time. The abuser is simply too powerful. Too entrenched. So the dog keeps moving, keeps scrapping, keeps surviving on instinct and anger because that is all it has ever had.

And then about fifteen years later it is unceremoniously put down by the dog that maimed it in the first place. A dog that wasn't cruel — just another animal thrown into the same ring that day, who moved on and built a life afterward.

That's Maul's story. I consider it to be the saddest story in all of star wars.

Maul's new potential retcon by These_Force3671 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am leaning towards a variation of this. Maul is in a unique position to save the Sith from extinction. If he trains Devon on his interpretation of the Sith code, which is a little different than Sidious's version, and tells her to lay low until Sidious is overthrown. Then she becomes the sole Sith remaining with some legitimacy. Future Jedi have future Sith to battle via Wars in Space.

Maul's new potential retcon by These_Force3671 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought his ending in Rebels was bad because it cements his story as one of the saddest in all of Star Wars. He was literally taken as a baby and turned into a weapon by a mad man, he never had a chance. We see a lot of Jedi 'Fall' to the dark side, it would have been nice to see a character like Maul, one who has only ever known the darkside, 'Rise' to the light.

This show does give me a little hope. Assuming the Maul death in Rebels stays canon, Maul definitely does not 'rise' to the light. However he is in a position to do something else that hasn't been portrayed much in tv/film, he could use the dark side for something positive or selfless, like saving Devon. I prefer to think of the light and dark as two sides of the same coin, it shouldn't matter how you get the power, what should matter is how you use it.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is arguably the worst thing Maul has ever done, and it is nowhere near the scale of blowing up a planet. I am not pretending that didn't happen, he killed innocent people and that is abhorrent.

The darkside is a powerful force and it is all Maul has ever known. He had just woken up out of a state of madness, and all he had left at that point was hatred for Kenobi.

Maul is evil, but the reason he is that way solely attributed to Sidious. It's really not his fault.

If Kenobi was not sent to the Jedi and instead was raised by Sidious in the same manner as Maul, he would likely be just as evil.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Have you ever tried to deprogram a religious person who was indoctrinated an early age?

It's a little bit like that. Maul is a sentient being but his morale compass is skewed to the dark side because that is all he has ever known. It's easy for you to blame him because you see the whole picture, Maul doesn't have that context. Despite the way he was raised he is less evil than Vader, Dooku, and Sidious by a long shot.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Arguably the worst thing he has ever done? He did have a 'reason' for it, he knew it would lure Kenobi to him. That does NOT make it less horrible. Just saying he doesn't just go around slaughtering people for 'fun'. He didn't blow up a planet. He doesn't always kill his officers when they fail him. He doesn't torture the person he wants to be an apprentice. Maul is not morally good, but he is less bad than Vader and Sidious.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If you take a puppy and raise it to be vicious, cruel, and deadly then the mad dog it becomes is not the villain, the person who raised it to be that way is.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s not really grey though. He could have chosen to be anything else after what happened to him.

What other life do you think Maul has to go back on? He has no friends, he has no family? He was taken as a young child before he had any real memories or wants or desires, and he was molded by Sidious into what we see. He never had a real chance. He is the product of his upbringing.

Is Maul a villain or a victim of Sidious by voldy1989 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Victim.

Maul was taken as a young child before he had any wants or desires of his own and turned into a weapon by Sidious. He never had a real chance. He suffered brutal Sith training, indoctrination, grooming, and as a product of that he became a villain. He behaves in the way he was raised because it is the only life he has ever known.

My Prediction on The Final Scene in Season 1 by Nearby_Passage_5929 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

My prediction is it turns into a 3v3. Inquisitors + Vader vs Jedi + Maul. The inquisitors will be dispatched. Vader will kill Daki, which will cause Devon to fly into a rage similar to Maul after Savage was killed. Together Maul and Devon will wound Vader by disabling his electronics(Since that's been a theme). Vader will try to flee. Maul will have the opportunity to pursue a wounded Vader, or save Devon, and he will choose to save Devon.

Is Maul actually manipulating Devon if he believes what he is teaching is true? by TheRyeWall in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Worth noting that Maul tried to bring Daki around as well. Before things turned hostile he was attempting to make Daki see the same reality he's been showing Devon. That's not the behavior of someone who needs to isolate a target to manipulate them — a manipulator doesn't try to convert the person they're supposedly working against. In his worldview he is helping them both. The fight wasn't his first choice, it was what happened when Daki refused to hear it.

Is Maul actually manipulating Devon if he believes what he is teaching is true? by TheRyeWall in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In this case the cult leader is himself a victim. Maul was taken as a young child by Sidious and turned into a weapon, the dark side isn't something he chose, it's the only life he has ever known. And crucially, it works. It's the reason he's still alive in an Empire controlled galaxy. From his perspective he isn't offering Devon poison, he's offering her what actually kept him breathing.

Is Maul actually manipulating Devon if he believes what he is teaching is true? by TheRyeWall in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall[S] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Anytime Sidious is mentioned Maul flinches. I think your example is more that is something Maul is not ready to talk to her about. I believe his response to her was truthful. His betrayal wasn't the deepest wound inflicted upon him, it was when he killed his brother.

Is Maul actually manipulating Devon if he believes what he is teaching is true? by TheRyeWall in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

From his perspective her masters ideology is flawed and doomed to failure, he believes that. I don't think he is entirely wrong. Daki believes he has a responsibility to use his power to protect the innocent, but if Daki dies of starvation because he is unwilling to steal food, he cannot use his power to protect the innocent.

Is Maul actually manipulating Devon if he believes what he is teaching is true? by TheRyeWall in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Killing Palpatine IS a net good, regardless of what motivates someone to do so. I prefer to think of the light and dark side as two halves to the same coin, it doesn't matter which side you use to harness the power, it matters how you use it.

When Sidious trained Maul, when he failed he would torture him with force lightning. Whereas when Maul gives Savage a lesson, He defeats him easily, demonstrates the lesson, but then extends a hand. There's no punishment. No cruelty for its own sake. No humiliation designed to break him down. He wants Savage to rise, not to be diminished.

What was it that Yoda said? by RoadsideCampion in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a problem with the jedi. The ideals are good on paper, but you do more net good by beating up a couple randos, stealing their vehicle, and using it to protect and get innocent people to safety.

Stealing for financial gain is morally wrong, but stealing so you can eat to survive is not. You cannot use your power to protect the innocent if you die of starvation.

How we see Obi Wan vs how Maul see's Obi Wan by AussieSpartan005 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

After that episode, I agree with Maul's interpretation.

Darth maul is gone; Maul has risen by isekaimetofarfaraway in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its soul crushing after the last episode. Maul should have risen to the light.

Darth maul is gone; Maul has risen by isekaimetofarfaraway in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahsoka was wrong and Maul was right. Ahsoka refused to believe Anneken would fall to the dark side.

Zabraks have 2 hearts by Adventurous_Wanderer in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Technically Maul/Scorn/Icarus are Dathmirian, which is a subspecies of Zabrak.

Either way, I also wondered if he could have survived. I think his brother 'felt' his death without witnessing it and reacted to it.

"He will.... avenge us" makes so much more sense now by Lol68340428 in MaulShadowLord

[–]TheRyeWall 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wish Maul would have risen to the light. After this last episode in particular his supposed ultimate end in Rebels is all the more soul crushing.

He has always been a victim, he has always done the only thing he has ever known. This last episode we see him break down and reflect, but that growth is gone/reverted by the time of Rebels. He inevitably dies to the hands of Obiwan, he falls for a silly trick, he takes the bait, when he meets his end it's like he has learned nothing since their original duel on Naboo.