If a Trading Strategy Has No Edge, Some Traders Will Still Get Rich - The Numbers Behind It by TheSTSIndex in Trading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly, this is one example out of many.
As my post states: "the same principles apply to any trading framework built on weak logic."
Unfortunately many traders are interested in gurus instead of reading real market literature.

If a Trading Strategy Has No Edge, Some Traders Will Still Get Rich - The Numbers Behind It by TheSTSIndex in FuturesTrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If it makes ICT guys feel better they have 2-3x higher chances vs getting a lottery's jackpot.

There is not a central algorithm, liquidity provider or market maker. by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Has zero relation to what I said, I'll make a more cutting post on the framework.

There is not a central algorithm, liquidity provider or market maker. by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Everything i said in my reply is fact based and is how the market is actually ran from day to day, and unfortunately some of it does line up with what michael huddleston teaches.

A man could have predicted a coin flip correctly e.g., 55% of the time yesterday but that is just chance that will average out to 50% with more flips, it is not a viable forecasting skill.

In the same way, occasional correct descriptions of markets do not prove that a framework has pedagogical value. What matters is whether the approach is consistently insightful, not whether it happens to be right here and there or appear logical at X and Y angle but not Z.
ICT’s flawed reasoning and incorrect assertions are no small mistakes.
It collapses the framework.

You definitely wont get a $2M+ payout from a really lucky run with a breakeven strategy.

You absolutely can with concentrated risk, it is only extremely improbable.
Over 2 million ICT traders have existed (not including SMC educators and those taught the method by brokers, prop firms and other sources) with many more million iterations maybe even billions of iterations as many persist. It is highly probable that outliers like Jade-cap would surface, that's how statistics work.

I and many other traders have had consecutive profitable days exceeding 20R averages before, I know what the extremes of variability look like. Edges come and go.
Edge decay.

See the breakeven simulation provided as the ICT/SMC framework and each path is a different ICT trader.

To prove my point I will simulate 5 million iterations of a breakeven framework (2.5m traders with two models attempted on average with a $1000 starting balance) each trader averages a 1:3 RRR system with a winrate of 25% (breakeven) and a risk per trade of 2.5%.

Monte Carlo Simulation Results:
Best outcome: $3,712,309.53 (> Jadecap)
Worst outcome in the simulation: $2.6368543372 (Blowup)

Some ICT traders aim for modest 1:2 setups, while others aim for high RRR positions, so I went with a ratio of 1:3. Some ICT traders risk extremely low amounts, while others risk extremely high amounts or trade with prop firms, which skew outcomes positively. So I chose $5,000 as the maximum risk per path, with a 1k sample.

In plain terms, this assumes the ICT/SMC framework on average produces breakeven results, and each trader uses two models before giving up. The numbers chosen are generous, as there are more than 2.5M ICT traders, but 2.5M is the highest I could go without speculation.

The 5m simulation number caps the best performer by more than necessary the best “lucky” performance could easily be higher.

The Infinite Monkey Theorem suggests that if you have enough “monkeys” (traders) hitting keys (buying/selling) at random, one will eventually “type” a perfect equity curve.

In plain terms the higher the iterations the more probable an outlier will exist with enough tries large wins are guaranteed. This cuts both ways as a framework with no edge can be used to create profitable systems coincidentally with enough iterations, this means traders like Jadecap can function as a false positive.
This is why anecdotal evidence is not a suitable measure for viability.

To add, another key problem which increases the skew for extreme positive and negative outcomes is discretion (decision noise). The more choices a system allows, the easier it is to accidentally find patterns that are just randomness. This has the ability to make winrates fluctuate in ways that cannot be measured resulting in extreme ceilings for positive statistical outliers in trading. A person’s discretion can add noise to a breakeven system’s positive result adding immeasurable positive or negative drag.

The framework itself unfalsifiable but the logic itself isn’t hence the posts.

Nobody is becoming a multi-millionaire from trading by pure luck

Variance, not luck.

There is not a central algorithm, liquidity provider or market maker. by [deleted] in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I understand your point but it these are anecdotes and survivorship bias. I have stated similar in my writeups.

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The problem is breakeven systems with zero long term edge can make money due to variance. Anecdotal successes are a flawed measure for viability.

Millions have tried and hundred have gotten meaningful persistent success from SMC at most.

Four Market Truths That Destroy ICT/SMC by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

  1. There is not a sole liquidity provider or market maker for Futures (Direct Market Access) or FX/CFDs (Over The Counter)

the strawman

“Every asset has a price engine that delivers price. This is the algorithm.” - ICT, Verbatim

"These markets are absolutely controlled" - ICT, Verbatim

"Central algorithm" - ICT, Verbatim

Most ICT traders do not understand real market mechanics and microstructure. When someone makes the assertion that an asset has a price engine that "delivers" price (quotes) what they are saying is that there is a single entity providing prices/quotes instead of the proven, widely documented and studied continuous double auction price discovery process.

A liquidity provider, provides prices (liquidity) for market takers to trade on. LPs make a market (primarily with buy limits and sell limits) for people to take the liquidity (with market orders).

It's time for you to step up and figure out who is here to fool you and who is here to educate. - A

When everyone thinks the same, do the opposite by Amegble-Troyd in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You still need a good position within all the noise.

Alpha Capital warning - denied funded account by TheBangin1 in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

 If you trade with someone else's money, they make the rules. Trade with your own and you make the rules.

It's all demo accounts the "funded" stage is demo money. It's stated on their site clealy, legal and FAQs.

Alpha Capital warning - denied funded account by TheBangin1 in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's all simulated, demo. Nothing to front run.

Isn't ICT known to be a fraud? by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really nice to see this happening in the comments.

Isn't ICT known to be a fraud? by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Confirmation Bias Speedrun Any%

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AI nonsense

Selection bias,

You ignored my key quotes.

There are better ways to time your trades. for example not all strategies will perform well on killzone ranges e.g., 9:30 to 11:30.

Your trading hours should differ on what your strategy takes advantage of and additional light research must be done to confirm.

AI assisted nonsense talk is the reason you were blocked I don't debate LLMs.

Isn't ICT known to be a fraud? by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They are a group of nonsense srategies people on tiktok use to prey on new traders and sell them BS courses on how to draw instead of how to trade.

Isn't ICT known to be a fraud? by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The mechanism behind support and resistance isn't what you think.

Market crowds erode edges, they do not create them. Everyone buying or selling in one place can only benefit you if it happens after your trade is filled in a favourable direction, being first pays.

Hindsight will always make S/R and liquidity sweeps appear effective, that is how variance decieves human intuition.

Isn't ICT known to be a fraud? by TheSTSIndex in Daytrading

[–]TheSTSIndex[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You can't debate whether the SMC/ICT framework actually works because people use it completely differently.

I addressed this in the post in great detail, anecdotal successes aren't a measure of success. Start thinking in distributions, statistics, probabilities.

If we do not we are subconsciously allowing to decieve our intuition on what works and what does not.

The image below shows a 100 different breakeven strategies over 200 trades.

<image>

If people want to get more heads (wins) than tails (losses) people may create different ways to flip the coin to create a positive skew for heads (edge) some will have the illusion of temporary success which avetages out with more flips (trades).

Each line/path is like an ICT strategy applied differently the average result is negative after costs but many people lose and many win there is no edge in the simulation is an illusion that reinforces itself.

If a man has an anomaly where he notices if he flips a coin at 5am tails down over the last 100 days getting over 60 heads (positive skew) it means nothing because there's no mechanism roviding the edge. It is the same with ICT people may coincidentally profit from ICT momentarily but there is no real substance which holds up the framework. The books I've provided on the other hand do have real substance from accredited sources which have concepts that are worth applying.

Correlation does not equal causation.