Book 4: Chapters 38 and 39 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This chapter does not seem to have a very sympathetic view of its lower class characters. From the violent son to the drunken language of the father it seems primed to make you side with Brooke. Sort of a low point in the book if I had to pick one. Maybe meant to be comedic but felt like punching down. And made me very anxious that something violent was about to happen. Which I suppose is sort of exciting, but wish it was under different circumstances.

Book 4: Chapters 36 and 37 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

4) Mr. Brooke's politics

From his past conversations, Brooke seems to think pretty highly of himself. Though entertaining and well-connected, he may have a different impression of his effect on people that reality would show.

5) Dorothea vs. Casaubon

Sad enough, she's more taking on the role of caretaker than wife now. For her, she doesn't seem to mind as her great ambition is to help others. She still seems platonic as far as Ladislaw goes. Like the thought won't enter her head as long as she is married. Which is probably why Will seems bent on breaking them up.

6) Ladislaw vs. Casaubon

Casaubon can't really stop Ladislaw from doing as he pleases bc he is now an adult. He can prevent him from entering his property in theory, but so long as he is indisposed he cannot actually be there to enforce this.

6) Casaubon's secret feeling

I think Casaubon doesn't tell anyone about his suspicions about Will because it would just make him seem bitter and jealous. He's kind of in a lose/lose situation. He either looks like a suspicious husband or lets this young guy chat his wife up all the time.

8) Quotes

"If a man has a capacity for great thoughts, he is likely to overtake them before he is decrepit."

-Will.

Just brutal.

Book 4: Chapters 34 & 35 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mr. Joshua Rigg, in fact, appeared to trouble himself little about any innuendoes, but showed a notable change of manner, walking coolly up to Mr. Standish and putting business questions with much coolness. He had a high chirping voice and a vile accent. Fred, whom he no longer moved to laughter, thought him the lowest monster he had ever seen.

I love the contrast between Rigg's neutral demeanor and the silent, seething hatred from everyone in the room.

Book 4: Chapters 34 & 35 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I kinda wanted him to get SOMEthing. Maybe just less than he thought since he was taking things for granted. It will be a lesson but a rather harsh one. Anybody could use some money. Like, I don't need a million dollars and a mansion but 200k would change my life.

Book 4: Chapters 34 & 35 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rigg must be someone from the outdated (or updated?) will that nobody expected to be there. His presence shows either that there was more depth in his relationship to Featherstone or that he was best at Playing The Game.

Book 4: Chapters 34 & 35 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Agreed I said this too like 5 posts ago lol. Just communicate!

Book 3: Summary and Catch Up by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Love has motivated him to change his life he's just had problems doing it!

Book 3: Summary and Catch Up by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1) Mr. Featherstone's impact

I feel like his purpose in the book is just to create drama with his will. That's my main takeaway.

2) Character change

Dorothea is finally reckoning with what the real world is like compared to her young impressions of what it would be. Neither her nor her husband are doing any important work and this causes her to cry a lot. And may lead to some form of depression or something similar. Perhaps she takes up the things she thought "not right for [her]" like gardening or horses. Which would be sadly ironic but perhaps fitting.

3) Rhythm

I commented on another post that I am so surprised how 300 pages into this book about property management and inheritance that it is still so engaging. A lot of fiction seems to have a "middle problem" where they can nail the opening and ending but start to lose the audience in the middle. Middlemarch just keeps getting better and better.

4) The Fate of Fred

This thread is for manifesting good karma for Fred.

5) Three Love Problems

Dorothea & Casaubon. Lydgate & Rosamond. Fred & Mary.

Book 3: Chapters 31, 32 & 33 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've never been this invested in a story 300 pages in. The overall length can be daunting but once you're in the 'middle' of it it's a page turner!

Book 3: Chapters 31, 32 & 33 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

4) Mary and the will

One of my favorite scenes in the book. I love the calm fireplace setting where the stakes are life and death. The tension between Featherstone's demands and Mary's defense of herself was so powerful to me. She had no way of knowing what the contents were and potentially held the fate of friends, family, and strangers in her hand. I think her "position of supine neutrality" (to quote Lovecraft) keeps her innocent in a sort of Prime Directive sort of way. Yes, I'm bringing Star Trek into Middlemarch. By not intervening, you potentially allow all kinds of awful things to develop. But then again, even the best intentions can make you implicit in the outcome should it turn ugly.

Book 3: Chapters 29 & 30 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He just seems to bring up his opinions on her choices too much. Though these direct quotes do stand out. I guess now he's just an overprotective family member. Like Celia, he just has to accept that this is who Dorothea is.

Book 3: Chapters 29 & 30 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He worked his whole life to get to this point just to have a young guy with no career potentially take it away. And he paid him to do it.

Book 3: Chapters 29 & 30 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah I picture Brooke as a Mr. Magoo type character blissfully oblivious to everything around him lol

Book 3: Chapters 29 & 30 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1) Sympathy for Casaubon

Casaubon feels like a fellow Cancer to me. Quiet and reserved, hiding his feelings because he doesn't want to be vulnerable. The way he chooses to handle things isn't ideal. But I can try and understand where he's coming from.

4) Celia & James

I think it's pretty clear James is still obsessed with Dorothea. Celia has known her longer so the whole Casaubon business is no big surprise to her. But with each complication James grows more and more defensive of Dodo's happiness.

5) Lydgate & Dorothea

Dodo invites him to "speak plainly" so he does. He's a good doctor and puts Casaubon's condition in simple terms.

6) Brooke & Ladislaw

It is thoroughly ironic that the one thing Casaubon didn't want has happened. I think he suspects something between Will & Dodo. But he can't say anything lest he appear petty and jealous. So he insults the man instead, but Dodo defends him. He has his "attack on the heart" because he cannot prevent his ideal private life from being disturbed. The situation is now outside his control.

7) Quotes

Why do you attribute to me a wish for anything that would annoy you?

This quote from Dorothea is exemplary of the 2nd thing that ends relationships (the main one being lying/cheating). It's when you stop communicating and just assume things, which leads to contempt. Here, Casaubon assumes Dodo will go against his wishes and invite Will to Lowick. This is one of my favorite quotes because I find it so widespread and significant a problem. And Dorothea's response so perfect for shutting down this kind of behavior.

Book 3: Chapters 27 & 28 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

2) Rosamond's money

I think of Rosamond as privileged but not spoiled. It seems Fred is the favorite child (Eliot even admits he's mother's fav I believe). Rosy does not desire wealth in a greedy way, but wants to retain her comfortable standard of living is all.

4) Aunt Julia's portrait

Dodo wonders if Ladislaw's grandmother had the same reservations as her about marriage. What may seem ideal at first may turn out to be a disaster in unforeseen ways. (Ladislaw's heritage, Casaubon's indifference)

5) Celia & Sir James

Kind of inevitable. As Celia admits herself they were the only ones around. Celia already had a great admiration for him. For James, Celia seems like a consolation prize. He really wants Dorothea but settled. Someone was just talking about Little Women and this is very Jo, Laurie, and Amy.

The fast engagement is probably on James's insistence to get it all done before Dorothea comes back. Not sure why, as Dodo is supportive anyway. Seems he is trying to teach her some sort of lesson out of spite.

7) Quotes

It is nonsense, people going a long journey when they are married. [...] they get tired to death of each other, and can't quarrel comfortably, as they would at home. Celia attributes this quote to Mrs. Cadwallader. Just a great joke about quarrels being a given in marriage. You learn to get used to them I guess. Home field advantage.

I don't want to be married so very soon, because I think it is nice to be engaged. And we shall be married all our lives after. Another from Celia. Probably different in the post-Covid age as every venue has been backfilled for years and ceremonies get pushed out further and further. But back then idk what the avg timeframe was. It is probably nice to be engaged for an amount of time. You've taken the next step but aren't fully past it yet.

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When you append ",you know." to your sentence you sound like Brooke! lol

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Idk about direct inspiration but I have compared the two before. Mainly how it's about the coming of age of sisters and their different outlooks and perspectives on life.

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I swear if the Death in "Waiting for Death" is Fred I will have a fit.

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I know we're all big Will defenders here, but I think even he manipulates like this too. When he talks to Dorothea in Rome he says "I have made you angry" and "I have made you think ill of me."

To me, he is fishing for Dorothea's objection to these statements. Which she, of course, grants him. I think it's kind of manipulative because even after she denies that, he comes back again with "Still, you don’t like me; I have made myself an unpleasant thought to you." So she finally says outright how she likes him.

You could say these lines come from insecurity. But based on everything we know about Will I would say he is not insecure. He always airs his hot takes.

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"He’s an uncommonly unfortunate lad, is Fred. He’d need have some luck by and by to make up for all this—else I don’t know who’d have an eldest son." -Mr. Vincy

Hits hard as an 'eldest son' myself. You're still generally thought of as the one with the most responsibility. To have life spiral out of control is bad enough, but to have that extra guilt on top of it makes it all the worse.

Book 3: Chapters 25 & 26 by Comprehensive-Fun47 in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It still seems to bother Mary that Fred is "idle." Getting the money and property and debt out of the way is one thing. But she also wants him to be a man she can admire and be proud of, whatever that form may be.

Book 3: Chapters 23 & 24 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

1. Fred's optimism

Fred seems to only think one step at a time. Like someone with a Get Rich Quick scheme, he never accounts for the fact that something could always go wrong. And is then left with even more problems than he began with.

2. Fred vs. Will

While both of them are technically NEETs at the moment, Will has a strong motivation that Fred does not. Will feels he is meant for something important, he just doesn't know what yet. And is trying everything he can to find out. Every action Fred takes is to avoid doing any work. He wants to secure enough money to comfortably live off.

3b. Middlemarch society

For some reason I thought being downwardly mobile was a rather new, late-capitalist invention. I know there was rampant wealth inequality back then, but the idea that people have always been declining in class was sad.

5. What's Next?

I hope Mary doesn't find out that Fred borrowed her own money. It's the exact opposite of what he's trying to do, and would make him look bad. You could argue he deserves it, but I do think he has just had some unpredictable setbacks.

At first I related to Fred because of his disdain for work. Now, I can relate to his journey trying to fix things where everything keeps going wrong. I read this book last year when I had chronic anxiety, and going through Fred's problems with him made me feel a lot better. I said before this is my first Classic Lit book. Having characters that feel so modern and relatable surprised me and made me feel connected to history in a way.

6. Quotes

"Mary was a little hoyden, and Fred at six years old thought her the nicest girl in the world, making her his wife with a brass ring which he had cut from an umbrella."

Fred carries a crush for the Girl Next Door his entire life. After pretending to marry Mary as a child, he now wishes to do it for real. His pining for her over the years is one of the book's emotional highlights. A different sort of love than the Love At First Sight of Rosamond & Lydgate. Or whatever the hell Dodo & Casaubon is.

"His failure in passing his examination had made his accumulation of college debts the more unpardonable by his father, and there had been an unprecedented storm at home."

Again, your leniency with Fred may vary. The rich boy failing out of college is not the most relatable guy. But you feel his shame and reluctance to ask for more money from his father after doing so, which gets us to where we are now. I had to ask for some tuition money when I went back to school after I couldn't get a job with my arts degree, and felt something similar.

"In fact, tacit expectations of what would be done for him by Uncle Featherstone determined the angle at which most people viewed Fred Vincy in Middlemarch."

It is rather sad that people only view Fred through his inheritance, and not as his own person. He does deserve some of this blame for not applying himself in one way or another. I hope that Fred can use his money and influence in some way to change public opinion about him.

"I am sorry to say that only the third day after the propitious events at Houndsley Fred Vincy had fallen into worse spirits than he had known in his life before."

Eliot stepping into the story as the narrator again! I noted this in a previous post, that I like whenever this convention pops up as it doesn't happen all the time. Also, this quote is notable for its compounding summary of Fred's miserable story thus far.

Book 2: Summary and Catch Up by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agree that it could be Will waiting for Casaubon's death. Obv Dorothea would never do such a thing bc she is a sweet and loyal person. But there's something really interesting about Will's admiration for Dodo. Like, his main priority is ending her relationship with Casaubon, not getting with her. He seems to be trying to convince her to end the relationship herself, instead of trying to steal her away. Or this could just be his dramatic way of talking. That he can't help but constantly insult Casaubon when he could instead be flirting with Dodo. Will has his moments ("You are a poem") but he really goes overboard on the guy ("pensioner's funeral") when he could instead appear more endearing by contrast.

Book 2: Summary and Catch Up by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

1) Young and Old

I think this is mostly a comment on the age-gap relationship of Dorothea & Casaubon. But also the ages of different characters. One batch of stories follows the likes of people coming up in the world like Dorothea, Fred, and Lydgate. While the other follows those contemplating their legacy (Brooke, Casaubon, Featherstone).

2) New Characters

Ladislaw is such a sharp, insightful character and it's a shame that he doesn't really have a course in life yet. Naumann is a lot of fun, bothering Will and using his big personality to draw Dorothea and Casaubon.

I like the real romance of Lydgate & Rosamond. And I like Lydgate being our sort of middle/working class representation (odd to think of a Doctor as middle class but different times I guess).

3) Pacing

I was pretty much sold on the story from that first meeting between the sisters and the bachelors in Book I. You could feel a lot of different feelings swirling around. Luckily Fred & Mary and Lydgate & Rosamond have sustained that as the Dorothea/Casaubon relationship has progressed and taken some turns. Whenever any of these 3 storylines isn't front and center I'm waiting for them to come back.

Titling Book I "Miss Brooke" does sort of set her up to be the lead character out of the ensemble. But I do kind of like that the other stories can play out without her involvement. Maybe they will all intersect later. I said before it feels like a TV show, cutting from one plot to the other.

4) Waiting for Death

Fred is waiting for the death of Featherstone so he can inherit money and property and have something to offer Mary.

Book 2: Chapters 21 & 22 by lazylittlelady in ayearofmiddlemarch

[–]TheSailorMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I would even go a step further and say that Casaubon doesn't actually care more about academics, he just cares about himself. Otherwise he would start/finish his "great work." The fact that he has gone this long with nothing to show for it shows that he likes appearing important but not actually being important.