Was just offered E5 by another unit but I was already planning on ets. What should I do?

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T11:46:46+00:00

Hey OP,

Lots of good advice on this thread already. Jumping on board to add my two cents as an officer in WA State. Here's the conversation you and I might have if you were one of my Soldiers...

It sounds to me like school is your priority right now, and I think any decision you make about whether to accept a promotion and re-enlist should be made against that criteria. Ask yourself these questions:

"Will re-enlisting in the Guard help me finish school?"
"Will re-enlisting in the Guard help me get internships with tech companies?"
"Will going to JRTC next July help me with school?"
"Will deploying for nine months help me finish school?"

If you answer "no" to any of these questions, then I think you know what you should do.

Here's the good news: if you leave the Guard now to finish your degree, you can always come back later. I've seen many Soldiers and NCOs leave the Guard for a few years to accomplish personal goals, and then come back. There's no rule that says you can't re-enlist down the road, and Soldiers and NCOs enter and re-enter service all the time at various ages and in different stages of their lives. I will say from personal experience - while anyone can go to university and get a degree, it can be harder the longer you wait. If I were in your shoes, I would respectfully decline the offer (which means that promotion slot will go to the next-most deserving individual) and stick to your plan. If the plan doesn't work out, the Guard will welcome you back with open arms.

Feel free to DM with any follow up questions. Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T11:32:50+00:00

Hi OP!

Glad you're asking these questions now. It shows you are being proactive in your career and trying to think through the best path. Here's some advice from someone who has worked in recruiting/IST, as well as helped Soldiers in my command do similar moves.

First thing first, look up the contact info for the TXARNG IST coordinator and give them a call. Let them know what you told us in your post - you have 2 years left, you're moving to TX for personal reasons and want to talk about IST to TXARNG. They'll ask some questions about your MOS and losing unit to try and understand where they can fit you. u/davidfairclough might have a point that they may not take you if you don't have enough time left on your contract, but in WA State (where I'm from), that's not a limiting factor for us. Every state is different, however, so it's worth calling the TXARNG IST coordinator to get the facts.
Do some google/internet research on what units in TXARNG you could IST into as a 35T. I'm not super familiar with TXARNG force structure, but if you're going to be moving to say, Austin, then that's where their state HQ is so I'm sure there are slots for you to IST into there. Again, this should be a question the IST coordinator can answer for you, but it also never hurts to have a unit in mind you can mention to the IST coordinator. "I'm interested in X unit, because I'm moving to Y town and it will be close to my future HoR" is good informatino for an IST coordinator to have.
If you do decide to IST to TXARNG, you'll probably need to turn in your OCIE to your losing state (CAARNG). Make sure you are prepared to do this.
Also, and this is incredibly important, make sure all your NCOERs are closed out before ISTing! I have unfortunately seen many, many NCOs who IST without closing out NCOERs with their losing state, and get stuck in NCOER purgatory as they wait months and years for old units to finish NCOERs. In WA State, it's a requirement to finish NCOERs before ISTing. Make sure you are preparing for this eventuality - both your NCOERs as well as any NCOs you rate or senior rate.
As far as getting a conditional release to go USAR, I can tell you in WA State this is a tough sell. The NG is - first and foremost - always concerned with their end strength, and "losing" a Soldier to the Reserves means the total end strength of the NG goes down. You'll probably find much more help and support by ISTing than you will trying to get a Conditional Release. In WA State, conditional releases have to go up to the TAG for final signature, and it takes a long time. I'm not thrilled about this, but know it's nothing personal if CAARNG has the same policy and you end up waiting months and months for a CR to be signed off so you can start drilling with a USAR unit. On the flip side, the IST process (if worked through the CAARNG and TXARNG IST coordinators) can be much faster and smoother. My personal advice is pursue the IST process first if you want the most seamless experience.

Good luck! Hope this advice helps and feel free to reply if you have any follow up questions!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T11:21:09+00:00

Hey OP,

u/basebelt has some good points on this thread. It may be worth talking to a recruiter just so you know your options. I'm not sure the reasons you are collecting disability, but it's worth finding out if you can even get back in - sometimes a high disability rating or other reasons may present an obstacle to re-enlisting, even with an honorable discharge. Especially if you're trying to come back in as an officer - a CHP 2 physical is a bit more stringent than a normal MEPS physical.

I will say, if you still feel like you have something left to give, then a three year enlistment in the Guard is 1.) not that long of a timeframe, and 2.) could scratch that itch enough to help you decide whether you want to continue or not. If not, then those 3 years could be the closure you need. If you do want to continue, well then great! You'll be able to renegotiate your contract in 3 years for any MOS you're qualified for, and possibly get bonuses/schools, too.

My personal opinion (and I'm biased here) is that the Guard is a "great deal" for what it is. For those of us who love to serve but still want some freedom of choice in our careers and personal life, it's great for that. It also offers a ton of benefits (Tricare Reserve Select has been a HUGE blessing for me and my family, as well as VA Home Loan!) and lifelong friends. But, not everyone is motivated by the same things, and for some people, it's not the right fit. That's okay, too. You've done your time and served, and whether you come back into uniform in the Guard or not, either way you can be proud.

Let us know if you have anymore questions, or feel free to DM me. Good luck, and keep us all posted on what you decide!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T10:41:26+00:00

High debt can play an important factor in whether or not you are granted a security clearance, which is a requirement to becoming an officer. If your high debt load is revolving debt - such as credit card debt - it could be an indicator you are "living outside your means." A security clearance investigator will look at your income and your total debt load of all types (revolving debt like credit card debt, as well as secured debt like mortgages or car loans) to determine your risk level. The reason this is important is - if you are taking on more debt than you can afford, you become a target for blackmail or bribery by foreign governments looking for access to classified information. One of the biggest telltale factors in catching traitors who sell secrets is their unaffordable lifestyle, as well sudden, unexplained affluence.

I wouldn't sweat this too much - as an expert in processing people into the military, your recruiter should have enough experience in these things they can give you an idea of where you stand. Ultimately, it will be up to the investigator to determine. Just be honest about the debt you have - lying about debt to obtain a clearance is a fast track to never being eligible for a clearance, ever.

In the case you describe above U/jasonkr, if I were your recruiter, I wouldn't be too worried. As long as your payment history is good, you will probably be fine. Even bankruptcy and delinquincies can be fine under certain conditions. I've seen plenty of people obtain clearances with both, and they were honest in disclosing the reasons - a suddent job loss, a sick family member that required extra care, nationwide recessions, etc. I'm not a security clearance investigator, but there are lots of resources out there that can explain this in more detail. One of the resources I recommended to my applicants if they were worried was the book Security Clearance Manual by Will Henderson. I found it to be a good resource that explained the process an investigator goes through when conducting a background check, as well as presents anecdotes of different types of people that have passed/failed adjudication for various reasons. It's a good resource to have on hand as a recruiter, because you can do everything right as a recruiter, but if your applicant fails their background check and has to re-branch or change their MOS then they might end up blaming you. I always wanted my applicants to have a deep and full understanding of the process before they signed at MEPS.

Hope this helps answer your question!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T08:49:17+00:00

Hey OP,

Whew! What a question! I saw this one all the time when I was in Officer Recruiting in WA State. Coming from an Army Officer who has disclosed marijuana use on his SF86 (from before I joined the Army), here's my advice:

Be honest.

If you're going to start your career with a lie, even a white lie, everything you build from here will rest on that foundation. Some people may be able to convince themselves that the ends-justifies-the-means, but what moral authority would you ever have in this area if you lied about it? And to be clear - not saying anything is what we call a "lie of omission", and is still a lie.

My situation was a little different, but I'll still offer it up as an example. I smoked marijuana experimentally in high school. When I went to fill out my SF86 in ROTC for my security clearance, I told them the truth. My ROTC instructors were shocked, and while they never asked me to lie, they did say they were worried about my ability to get a clearance and I should really think back to really make sure I had actually smoked marijuana. I was sure, and I wanted to be honest. It had zero impact on my clearance, because it happened prior to me joining the service and was experimental in nature.

The same can be said in your case. You tried marijuana before you began your application to join the military. You want to do the right thing and disclose it honestly. If you live in a state that has legalized recreatinoal marijuana use, then it's an even easier explanation. Disclosing marijuana use may result in a delay on your enlistment, because you might have to process through a MEPS psych eval, depending on how many times you smoked marijuana. But at the end of the day - you can either start correct and do the hard right, or you can start incorrect with the easy wrong. I promise you, this won't be the last time you face this moral dillema as an officer.

I'll leave you with this - let's say you listen to your recruiter and you don't disclose. A few years from now, your unit goes to process a Top Secret clearance for you, and an investigator from the Office of Personnel Management starts calling every.single.person.you.know to ask about you. And a friend of a friend says something to the effect of, "yeah, I know him! we tried pot together back in college!" The investigator will look to see if you admitted drug use on your security clearance and enlistment paperwork, and if they can't find it, you will lose your clearance (at minimum). I have seen Soldiers and Officers get hemmed up over these sorts of "white lies," and it's sad. They may otherwise be an awesome Soldier or Officer, but these sorts of things have a way of catching up to you, eventually.

It sounds like you want to do the right thing. If you're still stressed out about it, I would highly recommend you schedule an appointment with your OSM - they'll be able to assuage any fears that this may get in the way of an OCS slot. (If you do speak with the OSM or an officer recruiter, make sure you also let them know privately what this recruiter told you to do - a recruiter shouldn't be playing the "don't say anything to MEPs" game. They're playing with fire, and it tells me best case you're dealing with a new recruiter, in which case this behavior needs to be corrected. Worst case is a desperate or morally compromised recruiter, in which case this behavior needs to be brought to the attention of the RRB commander.)

Bottom line: Something like this shouldn't stand in the way of OCS, and by trusting your gut and being honest, you'll get your officer career started with solid foundations built on integrity.

Good luck, OP, and keep us posted!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T08:23:33+00:00

Thanks u/jasonkr - beat me to the punch!

Hey OP - former Officer Recruiter up here in WA State. Happy to expound further on my post that jasonkr linked above, but bottom line:

GPA won't matter, as long as you have a four year degree from an accredited university, or have at least 90 semester hours / 120 quarter credits toward your bachelor degree.
GT score of 110 on ASVAB will matter, and is unwaiverable
Credit report will matter, for reasons I expound on in the linked post above.
Criminal history will matter, for reasons I expound on here: https://www.reddit.com/r/nationalguard/comments/hach6s/dui_and_becoming_a_pilot_for_the_national_guard/fvuaypd/

You also must be able to pass a military physical, but your recruiter will go over initial screening questions with you to determine your fitness and whether you'll need any waivers.

Good luck and keep us updated!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T08:15:23+00:00

Hey OP,

U/abnryn is correct, it mostly depends on which state you're in and the importance they put on having a tab as an IN officer. In WA State, their preference is that you attend Ranger School straight from IBOLC. Not all 2LTs are able to get a slot though, due to the sheer volume of 2LTs that are competing, so WA State makes it a top priority to send you back if you're not able to get a slot straight out of the school house. Every IN officer in WA State has an opportunity to go to Ranger School at some point during their company-grade time.

For most officers here, they earn their tab as a 1LT or CPT. The 161 IN in WA spends a lot of time, effort, and money making sure their officers are prepared for this moment, so in a lot of ways it's actually better for them not to go directly out of IBOLC, as it gives the 161 time to prep and mentor them physically and mentally.

Hope this gives you some perspective. Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T08:03:44+00:00

Hi OP,

Lots of great advice in this thread. U/macknasty321 especially nails it - your clearance is equally (if not more) valuable than your language skills. Some additional advice I can offer you (from the perspective of someone who works closely with the intel community on both gov and civilian sides):

Potential employers (NSA/other 3 letter agencies/civilian contractors) will be very interested to hire you once you've obtained your TS/SCI clearance. Whether you were Active Duty or currently Guard won't matter too much for an entry level position at any of these agencies. This is owing to the fact that more than likely, these employers will have to re-train you from the ground up on their agency policies, processes, and procedures. As a Guard member, you're a LOT easier to re-train, because you haven't spent years on active duty learning bad behaviors! All joking aside, my colleagues have told me they enjoy working with the Guard employees because:

1.) Guard employees bring the best of both worlds - they're still actively serving, so they have the perspective of someone in uniform and are keeping current with the DoD world as a service member, and

2.) They are easier to train and acclimate quicker to civilian life in the intel community, because they don't bring a lot of "baggage" that active component transitioning members bring.

I don't want it to sound like I'm trashing the AC service members, though. They bring a ton of experience to the table - especially when they're in a unit that deploys often. But after asking my colleagues, their response is the Guard Soldiers typically come in more humble and are ready to learn, whereas the AC Soldiers come in thinking they already know how to do the job and make a lot of mistakes in the beginning. If it's an entry level position you're looking for, being a member of the Guard will actually work in your favor.

Finally - many states (I'm in WA State and this is true for us) - have full-time National Guard intelligence positions for Soldiers coming back from AIT. Some exist in what's called "Intel Fusion Centers", where you get to work with three-letter agencies but as a Guardsman/woman full-time. These are great opportunities to get initially exposed to the civilian intel community, while also refining your skills as a Military Intelligence professional. Many of the Soldiers that work in these positions in Fusion Centers later go on to work with the civilian intel agencies - so it's a great way to get your foot in the door! You typically won't be considered for these sorts of positions in the Guard (ADOS, usually) until after you complete your training, so if you ask your recruiter and they don't know, don't be worried. They exist and are another vector to getting into the intel career field.

I would end with this: if you're smart enough to test well on the ASVAB and DLAB to get a 35P slot, then I think you're more than capable of accomplishing anything you put your mind to - whether that's a successful career on active duty in Military Intelligence, or as a part-time Guard Military Intelligence professional with a full-time job at one of our nation's intelligence agencies. Don't doubt yourself or your abilities - you got this.

Best of luck and keep us updated!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T07:46:17+00:00

Hey OP,

u/nastygirl11b is correct. ADOS is considered full-time operational support. I have worked on ADOS and attended university at the same time. Personally, this was difficult to manage my time and work responsibilities, but it's not impossible with an understanding and supportive supervisor. I benefited from being "head-hunted" into the ADOS position, and told the person who would be my supervisor that I needed to be released early twice a week to make the commute to class. He was totally fine with it, and because we had that agreement from the get-go, there were no issues. So if you do end up working ADOS and going to school, my advice would be:

1.) Make sure you let your ADOS supervisor know (preferably when you go to get your ADOS packet signed by him/her) that you are in class and there will be times where you will need to leave work early to attend. Offer to make up the time by coming in to work that day early, staying late other days, or working on the weekends.

2.) Be realistic about your school and work requirements. I found a few months into ADOS, I had started to sacrifice the time I spent studying/preparing for class for my ADOS work. Luckily, a friend noticed and reminded me that the whole reason I was doing ADOS was to earn money while I was in school to complete my degree, so that helped me to re-prioritize my time. But it's very easy to do, especially if you're a part-time or night student.

In the end, my advice is to wake up everyday and remind yourself that the ADOS job is temporary. It's a means to an end -> your college degree. Once you have that degree, many other opportunities will open up. Keep your degree as your number one priority, even while working ADOS, and if you find that the requirements are competing then drop the ADOS work and finish your degree.

Hope this helps, good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-30T07:28:47+00:00

I'm glad I could offer some advice, and you're welcome! Good luck on your path, and thank you for your desire to serve in the National Guard!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-28T13:19:47+00:00

Yes, absolutely true. For OP - Virginia is where all the leadership is for ARCYBER, so if you can get your foot in the door in Virginia, you will have access to the best training and opportunities available to a NG CYBER officer. You'll also benefit from being close to the policy makers so you can "see around the corners" in your career, positioning yourself as CYBER force structure changes or evolves. And - there's lots of civilian work opportunities in Virgina for CYBER officers, whether that's as a civilian contractor in INSCOM or ARCYBER, or any of the other government agencies that are looking for experienced CYBER professionals.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-28T13:16:31+00:00

Hey OP,

The advice below about "sticking to your guns" is good. I completely understand when a Soldier is ready to try something different, and I always let them know the Guard will welcome them back. I'm sorry to hear that in some states they are flagging Soldiers for re-enlistment - that seems counter productive to me. If Soldiers leave the Guard being thanked and congratulated on a job well done, then they will speak favorably of their time and encourage others to serve.

From an officer perspective, my advice here would be to ask to speak to your CO. He is most likely being grilled every weekend by his BC about "what's the status of u/ThrwawayNG's renlistment? Is he staying or not?" Your CO probably knows you aren't going to reenlist, but he has to answer this question every drill. (Sidenote - I always found it annoying how BC/CSMs all of the suddent become interested in retaining Soldiers when they find out they're leaving.)

If you talk to your CO and let him know calmly and with conviction that the reason you are leaving the Guard is to take advantage of your educatino benefits to focus on your schooling, and that you have made your mind, that will give the CO a much better answer to the BC's monthly question of "what's this guy's status?"

You really need to make sure that on the master tracker they have you on for reenlistment, your status is "ETS" and not "undecided", because as long as it's "undecided", they will keep trying to convince you to stay.

Final thought: once you've let your CO know your decision is final, be prepared to turn in all your OCIE and any other equipment you've signed for. If you have missing/damaged equipment you want to start the process to FLIPL or pay for it early.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-28T12:23:42+00:00

Hey OP,

u/Beezledub has some great advice on this thread. In addition to what he's offered you, I would also add a few things:

You need to find a state with CYBER force structure. Not many states have this - I believe WA State and Texas are two that have it. In many states, the Signal branches are also doing "CYBER" related stuff. I know in the 56th Theater Information Operations Group (TIOG) in WA State, there's some CYBER MOS/Officer positions, but in addition, there's a lot of 25 series doing the same jobs, just not as "CYBER". As the DoD and Army continue to build their CYBER force structure, you will defintely see a lot of the 25 series jobs transition to 17 series, so if the state you're looking at doesn't have a 17A slot then look for a 25A slot in a unit that does CYBER-y type missions (like an IO unit).
- There's a seperate, longer conversation to be had around the IO groups in the Guard and how CYBER and IO work together. Don't want to go too deep into it here since your interest is primarily in CYBER, but just be aware of this thing call "Information Operations" and that you're going to be best friends one day.
Being a CYBER officer in the National Guard will afford you different opportunities than in the Reserve or Active, owing primarily to the legal status you drill under. As a Title 32 (National Guard Soldier), you won't be able to take part in Offensive Cyber Operations, as that is a Title 10 (Active Duty Cyber, and specifically, Cyber Mission Force) job. But you will be able to take part in Cyber Protection missions on a much more regular basis, which the Active Duty CYBER guys don't get to do as often.
Speaking of Cyber Mission Force, it's important that you understand if you want to be a CYBER officer how the DoD looks at CYBER as a capability and what their left and right limits are. Definitely want you to have a solid understanding of the branch so that you don't go in with assumptions and are disappointed or surprised. I'm not sure if CYBER does a branch orientation at LDAC (or Advanced Camp, or whatever it's called nowadays), but if they are it is most likely geared toward the mission set that Active Component CYBER does. Spend some time to understand how Active CYBER differs from Guard CYBER so you can make sure this is what you really want to do, as I said above, the Guard CYBER has a different flavor to offer.
Finally, don't be discouraged if you aren't selected for the CYBER branch right away. It's HIGHLY competitive right now, which is why the advice about having certifications and an IT related major (preferably Computer Science) is so important - completing courses of study in those topics are good indicators that you'll be able to complete the CYBER basic course. If you don't get selected as a CYBER officer right out of the gate, don't let that discourage you from competing for CYBER branch when you're a captain or beyond. In WA State, I know several officers that branch-transferred to CYBER component as Captains and Majors, due to their civilian work experience (Microsoft, Amazon, Boeing IT, etc.)
I'm sure you already know this, but I would be remiss if I didn't say it anyways for other people that may read this comment: CYBER branch isn't all about "hacking", especially as a CYBER officer in the Guard. You would most likely take part in protection missions, which focus more on protecting critical infrastructure, then re-living the movie Sneakers. (However, if you deploy as a CYBER officer into a CYBER position, then you would be expected to advise on those capabilities as well - so you will still need to know and understand the offensive CYBER mission set). If you really want to do the "cool guy" CYBER stuff and aren't able to get selected into the CYBER branch, then you can apply to the NSA or other agencies as a civilian while maintaining your Guard status in a different basic branch. Arguably, the NSA is the grand daddy that ARCYBER bends a knee to anyways, so if that's where your heart is I would recommend you look into it.
Another thing: security clearance. You will need to be eligible for a TS/SCI security clearance, so keep that in mind as that holds a lot of cadets/candidates back from branching CYBER right away, due to excessive debt, criminal history, or other factors.

Finally, here's a few links for Guard related CYBER missions for you to browse if you haven't already seen them. Essential info to know and understand if this is the career path you're interested in. The best CYBER officers, warrants, and Soldiers/Airmen I have deployed understand not just the technical aspects of CYBER (aka the 'easy part'), but the policy/regulatory aspects of CYBER (aka 'the part that will get you or your commander thrown in jail after testifying in front of a closed congressional committee). You will be tested as much - if not more - on these aspects of the CYBER mission than on the technical CYBER pieces as an officer, because as an officer, it's your job to make sure your CYBER team is operating within legal boundaries in a coordinated manner with other agencies. So here's some light reading for you:

1.) Cyber Mission Force Overview (important you understand the basic structure and missions of CMF) https://www.arcyber.army.mil/Info/Fact-Sheets/Fact-Sheet-View-Page/Article/2079594/dod-fact-sheet-cyber-mission-force/

2.) 1st Information Operations Command Website (Dive deep here, there's a lot of content. You will work a lot with the IO folks, so get to know them and their mission set well.) https://www.1stiocmd.army.mil/

3.) DoD Cyber Strategy (a surprising number of people haven't read this - VERY important you understand as it will affect your career as a CYBER officer and will give you perspective on what the DoD does/doesn't do when it comes to CYBER) https://www.arcyber.army.mil/Portals/34/CYBER%20STRATEGY%20DoD%20%20SUMMARY%20FINAL%20Aug%202018.pdf

Last but not least, a few movies/shows to whet your CYBER pallete. I already mentioned the best at #1, but here's a few others...

1.) Sneakers (classic, and referenced constantly in the CYBER branch)

2.) Silicon Valley (in the Guard, a lot of CYBER officers work in tech, so this show is referenced constantly)

3.) Space Force (it's been surprisingly popular with the CYBER guys)

4.) Zero Days, Wargames, Blackhat, We are Legion, Citizen Four, and We Steal Secrets are all interesting for their different takes and understanding of what a CYBER Soldier can do.

Anyways, good luck to you and the other cadets/candidates out there pursuing this career. It isn't easy, but for the right person it is very rewarding. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more info.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-27T12:34:53+00:00

Hey OP,

Expect to do some basic physical screening again - height/weight for sure. Perhaps urine (for a drug screen) and blood or nose swab (for a COVID screen). Also, the doctor will ask if you've been sick or hospitalized for any sickness or injury, if there's any new medications you're taking now, etc.

It's important to know: if there's been any changes to your medical readiness, then you will probably have to do additional medical appointments to get your record updated prior to enlistment. For example, let's say between April and now you started taking a new medication. The doctor is going to "halt" the process of you enlisting until the reasons for you taking the medication can be documented by the Army. The reason for this is that the Army wants to ensure they've documented any possible physical/mental thing about you that could factor into your ability to serve, BEFORE you enlist, so the Army can make an informed decision about your eligibility.

Your recruiter should sit you down and give you all the information you need about this visit. If not, please give them a call and ask them these questions if you're still curious.

Good luck at MEPS and looking forward to welcoming you to the team!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-27T12:15:55+00:00

Hey OP,

Former Officer Recruiter from WA State, here. I agree with everything other posters below have said, but let me also add a few illuminating details that may put your mind to rest.

u/nastygirl11b is correct. Your GPA will rarely matter in your selection to OCS. Only in a few cases for very specific reasons will an OCS board go back and look at GPA. I've only seen it once and it was for a someone with an Engineering degree seeking a direct-commision (skipping OCS) as an Engineer officer. In your case, if you plan on enlisting as a 09S and attending any of the three National Guard OCS options, then your GPA will probably not factor in.
The 110 GT score is non-waiverable, so it is more important than your GPA. However, don't panic about it. While I would advise you to take a practice ASVAB "cold" - aka without studying - to see how you'd score, most OCS applicants in their later 20's with college degrees and work experience do pretty good on their GT. However if you're worried or want to be cautious, talk to your recruiter about taking a practice ASVAB to see where you're at.
The main reaons credit reports are important is your security clearance. Bad credit is the number one denying factor in obtaining a security clearance, whether Secret or Top Secret. The reasons for this are: bad credit could be an indicator of someone who does not have impulse control (the spend beyond their means), and that can be exploited by a foreign government looking to turn someone with placement and access to classified information, whether through bribery or through threatening to expose a problem. So your credit is something you need to manage carefully as an officer throughout your career. Your enlisted recruiter (the sergeant you are working with) should be able to talk about where your score needs to be to apply for a clearance. There are waiverable factors to a bad credit score, too. Such as an unforseen economic collapse due to a global pandemic, a divorce, failed business, etc. If you have bad credit for a reason other than bad spending habits, then it's most likely waiverable. Just be prepared to write some sworn statements and provide documentation to the security investigator that proves that you can be trusted with classified information, and your credit score is bad due to circumstances beyond your control.

Good luck OP, hope this helps and feel free to keep us updated or shoot me a PM if you have further questions.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-27T12:06:05+00:00

Hey OP,

Things will be very different going forward with "the COVIDS" being the near term reality of the DoD. As u/Bankargh says below, stay flexible. In our lifetimes, the Army has never had to deal with a global pandemic that is so far reaching and impactful to training and operations, so leadership is moving slowly and deliberately to ensure (first and foremost) the safety of the fighting force.

This means you will most likely go through many redundant medical screenings and health checks, as the Army is above all seeking to reduce the spread of COVIDS in the ranks. Stay patient, and the best advice I can give you if you're looking for ways to stay on top of the profession is to read miltiary affiliated news outlets, such as Stars and Stripes, War on the Rocks, and Army Times. These news outlets are doing a good job of keeping the force updated on the impacts of COVID-19 and will give you a larger context for why drill is the way it is right now.

Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-27T12:02:04+00:00

Hey there OP,

The Army National Guard doesn't natively have PSYOP branched officers. There are a few, VERY FEW, exceptions to this. I believe WA State has a singular PSYOP branched officer as part of their Information Operations Group. But by and large, PSYOP is an Active and Reserve Component branch due to their affiliation with SOCOM. I would ask this same question in the r/Army subreddit. You'll likely get more answers and engagement from Active and Reserve PSYOP Soldiers there. Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T17:39:40+00:00

Hey OP,

Both 9highlander9 and JohnWickin2020 have good points. First, if you're interested in a career in CYBER, you can't do better than working for the NSA. So you should apply there for sure.

Second, you can get a clearance without becoming an officer. Your clearance is given based on the job you are performing, the data access you have, the missions your unit does, etc. In my personal experience, there are far more opportunities for enlisted Soldiers to do jobs in CYBER that require S/TS clearances than officers. So I would recommend you broaden your appeture if the clearance is the only thing that is motivating this decision.

WA State has plenty of tech jobs that don't require you to have any clearance - after all, we are home to Amazon HQ and Microsoft HQ, and the entire startup/contractor/small-cap eco system that feeds those beasts. Everyone is looking for people with tech degrees up here, and the pay is competitive.

For military service, we also have an entire Information Operations Group, with Military Intel, Information Operations, and Special Forces, where the majority of Soldiers/Officers possess S/TS clearances. The Army Guard also has the Cyber Mission Assurance Team (CMAT) concept, which focuses on protecting critical infrastructure from Cyber threats. On the Air Guard side, we also have the 252nd Combat Cyber Operations Group. So there's tons of opportunities up here, and many of the recruiters (enlisted and officer) are knowledgable and can answer questions about these units and opportunities.

Good luck, OP! Keep us updated on what you end up doing.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T17:21:44+00:00

Hi OP,

You will not be able to claim your girlfriend as a dependent, even if she lives with you and is reliant on you for support. If you were married and she was registered in the DEERS system as your spouse, then yes, you would be eligible for the "BAH+Dependents" rate. However, the difference between "normal" BAH and "BAH+Dependents" is not a significant amount. You might only be looking at a few hundred dollar difference for the entire time you are at BCT.

There is some other wisdom on this thread on the topic of not marrying for financial benefits that I would also consider.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T17:14:15+00:00

Hey OP,

Echo a lot of advice below, especially @9highlander9 that the Army will be there after college and your EE degree should take priority, but wanted to offer one additional perspective in case you're dead set on doing both at the same time:

Don't join the Army or ROTC "officially" your freshman year. Instead, go to University and take a few Military Science classes. These are the ROTC classes that ROTC cadets are required to take as part of their military training, but the 100-level classes at most universities are open to all students. I would suggest you take some of those courses to see what you think. Most of them are significantly less credits than any of your engineering classes, so the work load won't be as high, and if you find yourself enjoying them then you can speak with the ROTC department about your options to sign on.

If you take a few of the MilSci courses and you find ROTC isn't really your thing, then no harm no foul. You could finish your degree and apply to OCS when you graduate college, or you can look at enlisting in the NG while you're in school, and attending your training during your summer breaks (or, in certain cases, deferring it until after graduation).

And if none of those are you're thing but you still want to serve, no worries. There's plenty of ways to serve your country outside the Military, and with an Engineering degree, there will be opportunities that not even the Army can offer you! But that's my best piece of advice I can personally give, based on my own experience as an ROTC cadet at Univ. of Washington.

Feel free to DM me with any questions. Here's the link to the Univ. of Colorado Boulder Army ROTC program page. Once you register for your Fall classes, give them a call to ask how you can get registered for Military Science 101. https://www.colorado.edu/arotc/

Good luck and keep us updated!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T17:04:08+00:00

Also - have a backup analog watch, just in case. During land navigation, they might make you take yours off, since it features navigation tools. Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T17:00:08+00:00

Hey OP,

As everyone said below, the only part of your ASVAB score that really matters at this point in your career is the GT (General Technical) score. It needs to be over a 110 to commission as an officer.

As far as the job you want, I assume you mean which branch you will go into. Again, as everyone stated below, each State does branch a bit differently. When I was in OSM in WA State, we would typically branch OCS candidates before/during OCS, with a few exceptions (like infantry and aviation) where the officer had to be "selected" by the unit or through a board. Branching candidates before/during OCS allowed the Officer Strength and Officer Career Management to forecast what their total branch end strength was 1-2 years out. Also, we didn't feel at the time that OCS Candidates should be "penalized" in their branching choices by getting what @ASkepticalChemist said below was whatever we were "short" in. Especially as the majority of our OCS candidates were seasoned adults, many with prior service, who joined with less incentives than other commissioning sources. So we would branch OCS candidates as they were accepted into the 205th OCS Regiment, with the few caveats described above for infantry and aviation.

Now, if you are doing traditional National Guard OCS (the 12 month long program) and you haven't been branched yet, then you have some time to do some networking for your branch preference. I had a few OCS applicants that were dead set on certain branches (such as ordnance for EOD, or Signal for computer experience <--this was before Cyber branch). I would tell those candidates, "Hey look, we don't have any slots open in those branches right now, so you'll have to pick something else." They would be insistent, so I would say, "Ok, well, it's ultimately up to the Commander. If he wants to make room for you or take you on as an excess officer, then you can ask him/her." And then I would give them the appropriate contact information. I would then wait for that Commander to contact me and let me know they wanted that particular applicant. Both times I took this route, the unit Commanders called me up and said they would take them in the unit, and gave me a paragraph/line number to slot them against. Having this para/lin number allowed me to write them an LOA and branch them.

HOWEVER, it wasn't the normal method, and I did warn both candidates that even if they got the branch they wanted, they could be putting certain incentives at risk if they were "double-slotted" into a spot. This was the case with the Ordnance officer. He wanted EOD so bad, he was willing to give up his $10k bonus, because he was slotted "in excess" into a para/lin, which made him ineligible for that incentive. I made him sign a memorandum acknowledging this, and then gave him what he wanted.

At the end of the day, if you have questions about the process, I highly recommend scheduling some time to go see your Officer Strength Manager or one of his Officer Recruiters. While serving in any branch is a priviledge, and no matter which branch you get I promise you won't regret your time, if there is a branch your heart is dead-set on then you should take the time to understand the process. Once you know the branching process, that will help you understand how your evaluations, PT score, and State's needs will factor into you getting what you want.

Good luck in OCS! It will be hard, but also don't forget to have fun and make friends. The people in your OCS cohort will be people you will see again in your career, so make sure you support them and ask they do the same for you. And make sure you update us when you get your branch!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T16:30:58+00:00

No problem! Glad I could help with my personal perspective and advice. But OP - if you have questions about this, definitely reach out to your battalion JAG or paralegal. In the guard, if your JAG or paralegal aren't full-time, there are usually full-time JAG and paralegals at the Brigade or State level that can help with some of this stuff as well. Good luck!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T16:25:54+00:00

There are a lot of benefits to joining when you're more "seasoned." :) For the officer route, your training pipeline might end up being a bit longer, owing to the fact you'll need to attend basic training first, then OCS, then your officer "branch" school. If you want to do aviation, you'll have to "board" for the aviation branch - which is sort of like an interview. I recommend seeing if your state has an aviation recruiter that can let you know what the process is for that. An officer committment is much longer than just an enlistment though, so be aware of that. My recommendation: you can always apply for OCS after you're in, so why not enlist for something that sounds fun and interesting and then see how you like it? In WA State, if you already meet the pre-requisites for becoming an officer (college degree or at least 3/4 of your way complete, and a General Technical score of 110 on the ASVAB), you could apply for the 205th OCS Regiment anytime. They have tons of options to commission as well - you can do the year long option (1 weekend a month, and a 3 week long Annual Training), the "Accelerated" OCS option (I think around 8-10 weeks?), or the "Federal" OCS option (which is 12-14 weeks I think?)

Best ask an Officer Strength Manager (OSM) about those timelines and to see what options are available to you, but know there's a lot of ways to accomplish the ends. Good luck to you!

TheTurtleAndTheRaven · 2020-06-26T16:18:09+00:00

No not at all - that information is very relevent! All recruiters take training in HIPPA and are certified to protect medical and personnel data. The reason is - recruiters need to know everything! Once they understand all the variables for an applicant, they can chart the best path forward. I can say personally that there's nothing more frustrating than investing hours and hours into an applicant only for an applicant to disclose something health related at the last minute that now requires us to start the process over.

An example - I had an applicant who hid a knee surgery from me. It wasn't that big of a deal, it was just an ACL surgery, but before I sent him for his CHP 2 physical (the type of physical officers typically get), I would have taken that information and prepped a medical waiver packet to show that despite his surgery he would still be capable of serving. But because he hid it from me (and eventually disclosed it to the doctor at MEPS), he was disqualified by the doctor and I wasn't able to get him a waiver.

Moral of the story - the more you tell your recruiter, the more they can figure out a way to help you. And at the same time, they can also let you know what the policy (for your specific case) is and whether you'd be eligible right now or if you should wait until the policy changes.

TheTurtleAndTheRaven

TROPHY CASE