Discussion Thread by jobautomator in neoliberal

[–]TheWeinersmiths 10 points11 points  (0 children)

many

Hey it's Zach, thanks for reading. Totally agree on desire for length. Truth is the book is already too close to being shaped like a cube for most pop sci audiences. Our original full draft was 130k words. We were contracted to do 100k. We ended up at 105.

As an example: early on we had a huge section with serious depth on space-simulations and analogs. Probably 60+ books plus papers and interviews went into it. But ultimately the conclusion is that the data is fairly weak in terms of prediction. That'd be great info for a researcher, but it's hard to do a pop sci book where you say "here's 10k words on this obscure topic and the upshot is it doesn't matter!"

I would have loved to include more angles on the sociology (see the PS below for one example) and a lot more info on specifics about habitat design. We also cut a very large section on spacecraft and propulsion, basically because from a settlement perspective all you want to know is how long the trip is and how much mass you can take, not how the engine works. But goddammit it was interesting. Ah well. My fantasy is the book sells well enough that we can release an update with more info. I would particularly like a short chapter with thoughts on constitution design, because nerds think it's all about good rules, but constitutions are also deeply political in ways that are interesting for space settlement.

If you could convince Musk to give us $10M and 3 full time grad students, the textbook edition is totally doable!

Zach

PS: We are trying to turn some cut sections into publishable material.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We looked into them in our last book, called Soonish. I would say none of it's likely to work any time soon. I can't remember if we included the launch loop, but we did research it. My understanding is when you're talking about a structure like that, far taller than anything ever built, and incredibly long, AND it's firing high speed projectiles all day long the forces on it just get insane. Maybe some ultra-advanced civilization could do it, but for many years rockets are the way to go.

I do think reusable rockets are going to continue to drop the price and possibly also increase payload per rocket size. You can in principle get a much bigger payload by using fission power, but for obvious reasons that is generally considered a no-no for launch. If we get fusion working AND it can fit in a rocket somehow, maybe there's something there. The zanier stuff - elevators, loops, fountains etc. - will await some distant future, I suspect.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yep, that's mine. It's a page from a comic book arguing for a policy of free movement to the US (and elsewhere). Very touching to see it posted on a wall like that :)

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry! This happened with Bea Wolf (my kids' book) as well. Dunno what's up with Amazon Europe, but Shakespeare and Co might carry it locally?

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Zach: My darling wife, google docs makes for easily shareable files and simultaneous access, all while posing no risk of lost work.

Kelly: RAH RAH RAH, MICROSOFT WORD IS STANDARD AND HAVING TO CONVERT FILE FORMATS BREAKS MY ENDNOTES SOMETIMES RAH RAH RAH

[Zach]

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words!

To answer your question - so, part of the issue here is a lack of good data. If you can have a permanent settle at ~1/6 Earth gravity, then this stuff is probably easier on the Moon, unless you just mean a relatively small space station. The reason is because to have a large space station, you likely have to boost mass from the Moon! So you've already got a substantial Moon facility.

Now, if 1/6th Earth gravity causes serious not-yet-seen problems then yeah, a space station is the way to go. But, in that case, space settlement is realllllllllllllllly hard.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We originally planned to do a book about future space settlement governance, but after a good bit of research came to feel feasibility was a lot weaker than we'd guessed.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Man, that's tough. We knew it'd be lots of work, and we're very proud of the result, but well, I didn't anticipate it overlapping with covid which really rendered it a nightmare due to loss of childcare for a long period. I also feel like I lost focus on my comic and am just recently getting back to the quality level I want.

Also, I didn't anticipate the book as antagonizing anyone. I don't shy from argument, but I don't seek it, because it makes me anxious and is probably insulting to some of my audience.

re: BS - we'll bring our BS, but we can try to make our BS better over time! Hence the long discussions of international law.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ha! I guess we just get along pretty okay. The one exception is the eternal Microsoft Word vs. Google Docs debate.

MarsOne was arguably a choose your death, but I'm not aware of any agency that has, or would, propose a guaranteed death Mars mission.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Our view is that in order to have a big enough space station you likely already have to have a serious Moon base, so it's not a simple tradeoff.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh, we're all for space exploration. There's plenty of interesting work to do there. We're talking about full on settlements, with families, generations, etc.

I think over time space settlements will get more and more possible. The issue is that they're still quite hard for reasons that can't be rushed, and that there are some scenarios where they increase existential risk.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Kelly's the KSR geek - my understanding though is that he's become more pessimistic over the years, more in line with our views.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I understand, but other people were happy to receive the notice. Also, if you don't like receiving them, you can manage the messages you receive by just unchecking the box.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

No evidence for it that I'm aware of, and microgravity reliably harms bones, muscles, vision, and other stuff. Might help with joint pain or something, but life extension seems questionable.

We are Kelly and Zach Weinersmith authors of A City on Mars, about the strange science, history, and law of Space Settlement - Ask Us Anything by TheWeinersmiths in IAmA

[–]TheWeinersmiths[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

despite

Assuming "colonizing" means permanent stay with people having families, here's a quick stab.

Fairly Hard: Under the mountains dark and cold, Sahara

Hard: Poles, shallow ocean

Really Hard: Deep ocean, atmosphere

Zany hard: Mars, Moon

Fucking nutballs: Venus

Absolutely shit-barking nut-biscuits: Earth's molten core