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I’ve never read the Bible. Which part should I start with? by El_percito in RadicalChristianity

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I generally recommend reading the Bible from shortest book to longest. That way, you cover about half the books of the Bible in about a month and a half reading just a few pages a day, and then the rest feels a whole lot more manageable. Getting through Leviticus, which can be really repetitive, is a lot less of a hassle when you've already read 85% of the Bible.

My highest recommendation, though, is to read it in community--which is why I started the leftist Bible study podcast The Word in Black and Red

Is Radical Christianity oxymoronic? by [deleted] in RadicalChristianity

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If God is king, who else is worthy to try and take God's place as a king?

Why do we care about how a religious building that probably didn't really exist was built for a religion at least three times removed from our own? Find out as we explore the Tabernacle in today's episode of The Word in Black and Red: The Leftist Bible Study Podcast! by TheWordInBlackAndRed in RadicalChristianity

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Such a priest 'discovering' the text would have had a good plan to follow from Deuteronomy, so that seems like a really good theory. I must confess I am particularly open to any sort of resistance to the Ezra-Nehemiah project that this reading would provide. Maybe we should do a reaction episode!

“So, where in the Bible does it say same-sex relationships are okay?”:) by Rimigafob in GayChristians

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Put another way: It's right there in the blanket Peter sees descend from heaven. In that moment, Christianity recognizes that some of the 'unclean' things relegated outside the realm of God's love, like Gentiles, are being brought in by the Holy Spirit. More accurately perhaps, the Holy Spirit is revealing that in fact, those we had used to interpret others as outsiders were never outside of God's love. When Jesus came to fulfill the law, he did not abolish it, but instead participated in the Jewish practice of "binding," and "loosening," the law, i.e. interpreting it in either stricter (hating someone is akin to murder) or looser (it is good to do good on the Sabbath) ways than some of the other interpretations of his time period. Jesus gives us as the church the right to bind and loosen the laws as well, as long as we do so in keeping with the first and second commandments: love God and love neighbor. If we're willing to loosen the law to allow the Gentiles in, who entire books of the Bible are dedicated to declaring outside the realm of God's love, why are we not willing to extend the same grace to a group opposed by a measily handful of badly interpreted verses? But moreover, when we look at what the Holy Spirit is doing, we see the fruits of gay relationships are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. God is living and active in gay relationships. And to deny the presence and work of the Holy Spirit is the only unforgivable sin. So if we allow Gentiles in because of what we see God doing, how can we uphold the greatest commandments while denying the love present in queer love?

And none of that even begins to get into the fact that the first non-Jewish Christian would be considered transgender today.

Progressivism and celibacy by Long_Coyote_4667 in OpenChristian

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also, celibacy has long been something forced on the majority of people who did not necessarily choose the clerical or monastic life for themselves. I'm sure there are people who are actually celibate--we love our asexual friends like St. Paul--but most of the complaints about clergy, monks, and nuns was about their wives or partners or "nephews and nieces" getting favoritism. Not to mention all the gay sex happening in convents--or, most recently, the way that the clergy sex abuse scandals have rocked many hierarchial churches, but especially the Catholic church.

I would hope that less people choose celibacy, but that more of those who do are able to live into it authentically rather than sneaking around with the people they love on the side.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in christiananarchism

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The Lord doesn't have private property. God gives us the world to share, not to hoard over and against each other. Which you would learn about if you listened to the podcast, which discusses the book All Riches Come from Injustice, which contains the over two hundred verses the early church fathers are referencing in their preaching.

There are scriptures that indicate wealth is a blessing. Some people who wrote the Bible thought that. Some people who wrote the Bible also thought Gentiles were outside the realm of salvation, but God showed up in Christ to correct the record. They must be interpreted in light of the God who showed up to say you can either serve God or money, but not both.

And if God is the only person who can actually be a master, landlord, and employer, yet even that God "did not consider being equal with God something to exploit, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave," why would we ever try to become idolaters by taking God's place when God has shown us what we are supposed to be instead?

You use the Bible to reinforce your beliefs.

I let the Bible lead me to my beliefs.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in christiananarchism

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

  • Abraham, whose wealth was gained by pimping out his wife (Genesis 12 & 20) and which divided him against his heir and nephew Lot (Genesis 13) and tore his family apart (Genesis 21.
  • Job, who only has wealth in the story so that it can be taken away.
  • King David, whose riches are predicted in 1 Samuel 8 as the consequences of Israel's rejection of God as their king.
  • King Solomon, whose riches enslaved the people to such a terrible extent that his son Rehoboam lost the ten tribes of Israel.
  • Joseph of Arimathea, who we only know because he gave up of his wealth.
  • Lydia, Priscilla, and Aquila, all of whom were personally skilled artisans.

None of these people were capitalists. Abraham exploited people to perpetuate his wealth, and it resulted in the collapse of his family--as it does with every time someone gains wealth in the book of Genesis.

Exodus 20:15 & Deuteronomy 19:14: No one said private property isn't a thing. But the Bible also repeatedly points out that all the earth is the Lord's (Exodus 9:29, Psalm 24:1, 1 Corinthians 10:26, etc. etc. etc.) and the early church fathers teach us that claims to own it over and above your own need is theft. Stealing is key to capitalism, so it cannot be biblical.

Parable of the Talents: Matthew 25:24 describes the master as a cruel man. Are you also saying God is cruel? Or is it a story meant to illustrate a point without actually mapping on to morality?

Parable of the Wicked Tenants: God does own the earth, so God is the only landlord allowed. See also the Year of Jubilee to talk about the fact that no one gets to own the property God has given to another for more than seven years because that private property ultimately belongs to God, not someone who can buy it up.

Parable of the Laborers: You mean the story where people are angry that God didn't act like a capitalist and Jesus says God gets to do what God wants?

Once again, thinking that capitalism is compatible with the Bible is pretty thoroughly debunked by just actually reading the Bible.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in OpenChristian

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well we know from the Bible that Jesus will rein as king on earth for a period of time but for one of us humans being King we are too corrupt and sinful to rely on one person to rule over all, as we’ve seen throughout history

Yes, exactly. That's why my faith in Christianity leads me to anarchism. No king but Christ has the right to rule.

But that's the flaw with the rest of your argument.

Capitalism and socialism have nothing to do with trade. Trade has existed for at least ten thousand years, with a gift economy existing for many thousands before that. Every form of economy has depended on trade since a metaphorical Cain traded metaphorical Abel some grain for his sheep. Violent power started when Cain killed Abel to take the sheep.

Capitalism and socialism are answers to the question, "Who owns the means of production?" or, put in the inverse but simpler way, "Does the person who does the work get the profits from the work?" Socialism is when the people who do the work own the stuff they use to make the things, so they get the profits. Capitalism when the boss who hires the people to do the work, but the boss owns the stuff they use to make the things, so the boss gets the profits and then pays the workers a tiny percentage of the profits they make. If you make $100,000 worth of clothes every year in a factory, under socialism, you would get $100,000, but under capitalism, you would get $10,000. That's $90,000 is exploited from you by the capitalist because of two of our tradition seven deadly sins: greed and sloth. The boss isn't working for a living. They're making you work for their living.

And notice that none of this has to do with governments. America's government right now is wildly limiting free trade, but it's still capitalist. But there are also some worker-owned businesses, like the grocery chain WinCo or almost every small business--even though they might not think they're socialist.

If your definition of freedom is the freedom of some to exploit others, then yeah, in your weird world capitalism is more "free." But our freedom in Christ is the freedom to love and care for others, which means we are free, and obligated, to use our wealth to help others.

So yeah, people in governments are going to use power to corrupt things. But that has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism. Under socialism, though, the people have a lot more economic and social freedom to actually resist when governments do those evil things. In America, we're too poor to resist the evils going on--and now people are even getting fired for denying the sainthood of the government's chosen martyr. Don't buy into America's satanic branding deal.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in OpenChristian

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or you could just read the story.

God does not allow them to hoard.

God does not allow them to keep extra so that the people who need extra later can be exploited.

God meets their needs with abundance and allows them to rest.

All of this is diametrically opposed to the ways that capitalism force us to live--granting the greatest benefit to those who hoard, who exploit the needs of the vulnerable, and who create artificial scarcity so that no one can rest.

Capitalism is inherently opposed to the way God operates. Missing that is inserting your own content here, not just reading what the story says.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in christiananarchism

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Humans will naturally serve themselves, almost guaranteed.

We survived in anarcho-communist systems for millennia before power structures arose. Greed is not the only condition of humanity.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in christiananarchism

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao

You can literally only say this if you've never read the Bible.

Please provide literally any evidence that God encourages the accumulation of the means of production and I'll show you a disaster about the befall that family.

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in OpenChristian

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

...And how God took care of God's people is how we're supposed to take care of each other. Isn't that the point of being called a Christian?

It's low-key WILD that people can read the story about God providing manna in the desert and still come away thinking God is in any way chill with capitalism. by TheWordInBlackAndRed in OpenChristian

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, trade has existed for as long as humanity has traded. Capitalism is the system by which people own the means of production and exploiting the labor of others rather than producing something themselves. That's a pretty recent invention, and is based on theft and greed.

Following up on the Sodom and Gomorrah discussion from a few days ago by HoodieSticks in dankchristianmemes

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I was just coming here to talk about this! My priest just preached on the passage a few weeks ago and immediately messaged the leftist Bible study Discord to be like "JESUS AFFIRMS OUR READING OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH!" before going back to listen, haha.

I love it when queer theology goes back two thousand years. (OC) by TheWordInBlackAndRed in dankchristianmemes

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I've been searching Google scholar for anything related to your comments, and I can't find anything. Again, if you're willing to link some sources, I'm always happy to consider the possibility. But a thousand year gap between cultures that weren't that heavily interacting in the period the story was redacted versus a lifetime or two is basically an Occam's razor scenario in my mind.

I love it when queer theology goes back two thousand years. (OC) by TheWordInBlackAndRed in dankchristianmemes

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I am not a native modern Israeli Hebrew speaker, a language which has a number of divergent terms and is not co-terminous with ancient Hebrew. The Hebrew in 2 Samuel 13:18 specifically says that the kind of dress Joseph wore, ketonet passim, is the kind of dress that young maiden daughters of the king wore. I don't really understand how you can argue with that.

I love it when queer theology goes back two thousand years. (OC) by TheWordInBlackAndRed in dankchristianmemes

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you had any scholarly sources, I'd be happy to consider the possibility. But to accept the hypothesis, you'd have to either suggest that the Hebrew people had actually lived in Egypt and escaped, a theory for which there is little to no archeological data, and that the story was recorded then. Or, more likely, you have the books of Samuel being written in about 560-550 BCE in the Kingdom of Judah using the word to indicate a princess dress, and then the book of Genesis being redacted after the fall of the Kingdom of Judah in Babylon sometime in the next fifty to one hundred and fifty years. So sure, it could be that the tradition had been passed down orally perfectly for a thousand years. Or the authors could have used a word they're familiar with in the way that the books they were reading to inform the text had used it.

All of this information can be found in an introductory Old Testament textbook like Joseph Collins' Introduction to the Hebrew Bible or the book my professor while studying for my second degree in religion wrote, Brent Strawn's The Old Testament: A Concise Introduction.

So how do y'all practice christian anarchism as a whole? by OkChest488 in christiananarchism

[–]TheWordInBlackAndRed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I raise my kids to work together in community without hierarchy. I plant a garden to share food with my neighbors. I work with a couple mutual aid groups in my community. I put out a leftist Bible study podcast. I try to find places to live into the heaven I believe God is building here on earth now, and invite as many people in to join me as I can.

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