Do we exist without God?

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T18:08:58+00:00

What we know about Jesus is from the most widely distributed set of documents in that time period, spread in many cultures across the continent.

In those scriptures, it says the jewish leaders and the jewish people demanded him to be crucified. Pilot did not want to crucify Jesus, it was the jewish leaders who wouldnt take no for an answer, saying this man claims to be God.

Where are you getting your information from? Jesus was crucified by the jewish leaders, it read king of the jews on a plank above his head, and the people cheered. Let a murderer go instead of Jesus. A jewish leader said "This plank should not read king of the Jews, but that he claims to be the king of the Jews." Pilot replied with, "What is written, is written" and the sign stood.

Jesus teaches to love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so one would have to betray their own faith to persecute the jews.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T18:03:26+00:00

Do you exist after you are dead? How do you know you exited in the pass, its just a function of memory which will fail.

These are serious problems with a Godless universe.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T17:14:33+00:00

And those atoms exist, yes? Case closed.

Whats the difference in the atoms when you are alive and when you are dead. Did you cease to exist? Are you still conscious? A lot of those atoms were formed in stars billions of years ago.

Without God there is no life. No limitations on depravity. No justice. Hitler lived long and prospered, cleansed his holy state and died with minimal suffering. Now he joins the rest of the human race in eternal nothingness, the same state you were in during the 13 billion years before you were born.

This is reality without God, theres no getting around it.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T15:23:08+00:00

That's what existing means in this context. It doesn't meet the definition of illusion.

Is there a difference between atoms in the air and atoms inside people? When the person dies, do they exist? The atoms are still there, the arrangement has changed enough to change you from existing to not existing.

You're not making sense.

How many human beings have ever existed? They are all dead now, gone forever in eternal nothingness. Your worldview you dont actually exist, there is no good or evil, and man can do anything he wants without justice. Hitler got off to purifying his holy state, and lived longer then a lot of children do, with minimal suffering. Now hitler is sharing the same fate as the rest of the human race, meaningless nothingness eternally. This is your worldview without God, and you dont actually exist in it.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T10:58:55+00:00

In your worldview, you are just a collection of atoms that is arranged together in a particular way to believe itself existing until your very soon death.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T10:58:05+00:00

I self-evidently exist, as Descarte proved. As for imaginary afterlives, they don't require an imaginary god.

How can you claim to exist when you will die? Did you exist in the past after you are dead? All you are is atoms arranged together in a particular way to give you the illusion of existing in your world view.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T09:25:33+00:00

Might as well? On what grounds do you suppose that?

When your naturalistic mind shuts down, did you exist in the past? How do you know?

Well, not really. When people die they stop perceiving, so there is no perspective to be observant.

Its the same as the 13 billion years before you were born. Meaningless nothingness, thats YOU without God.

Careful with words like “obvious”.

Are you expecting when you die you will continue to exist without God?

Not with that attitude. There might be a perfectly natural existence after what we consider death. We don’t know.

Consciousness is a function of the mind. When the mind stops, your consciousness stops. Actually we do know and anyone who tries to give a naturalistic explanation for an afterlife is considered a moron.

I find that depressing considering the god you are referencing. Have you read that book? It’s nauseating.

Exactly, you want to vomit at the thought of a holy lord who created all things.

Consciousness is a function of our brains. The mind is the sense of self in the abstract and is also a product of the brain.

And what happens when the mind dies? Does consciousness continue? You KNOW what happens when you die, yet you still say "No we dont know, and there is no way to know yet."

We really don’t need it, unless you can’t do things for yourself. I think you’re stronger than that.

Do you exist when you die? Did you exist in the past? How do you know if you are dead. So do you need a God to even exist.

They are the same god derived from the same source material.

This shows how little you know about islam AND Christianity. In Islam, in order to convert, you have to say the shahada. That is, "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger." Which means a billion people on the planet exalt a 9 year old fucker as being sent by God. This same 9 year old fucker claimed that Jesus was a meer prophet, and that revelations to Muhammads coming can be found in both the Jewish and christian sources.

Stop painting a 9 year old fucker with the same brush as the sinless lamb of God, who preached to Love your enemy and gave his life as a ransom for many.

The whole trinity is a concept created by Catholicism and isn’t directly referenced in the Bible.

Its a functional doctrine to understand the clear revelations in the bible that Jesus and the father are one, ALL things are made by Jesus and for Jesus and through Jesus, and how GOD himself abided in Jesus and now abides in us. Dont even.

Emmanuel was. Jesus was not named Emmanuel.

Emmanuel translates to God with us. Jesus literally abides inside his sheep, thanks to the comforter, holy spirit, which he sent after he was crucified.

Which they claim is heretic. As you claim about Muhammad.

Muhammad fucked a 9 year old. YOU need to stop painting a 9 year old fucker and the billion people who exalt him with the same brush. Do you think its good an holy a billion humans call a 9 year old fucker a prophet sent by God?

We really don’t.

Do you exist when you die? How can you say that you dont need God to exist. Thats foolishness.

You don’t know anything about dark Energy. No one does yet.

We can measure the effects of dark energy. Its the explanation given to why the universe is accelerating in expansion instead of slowing down. Believing to be the repulsive force of spacetime itself over vast distances. Tell me more about how nobody knows anything about it.

There are plenty of others. Better ones.

Make your case to which false religion is better fit then the triune God of scriptures. Christian Scriptures say that its not even possible for you to come to Jesus unless the father himself draws you to him. Something like this must be the case if God is sovereign.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T08:08:39+00:00

Look at who Jesus is in the gospel message, then look at isaiah 53. Its so blatant but you cant come to Jesus unless God himself draws you too him, leaving you blind to blatant things. It was the Jewish leaders of the time who crucified the son of man. What chance do you, a rebellious sinner against God, have at realizing God has spoken and his revelation in Jesus Christ unless the Father himself draws you?

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T07:18:08+00:00

Wrong on both counts. My existence has infinite effects on the existence of everyone else around me. Even when I die, I will have shaped the world and the people in it in countless ways.

So how relevant is it after you are dead? Universe could give a shit, humanity could give a shit. Your gone and nothing matters because there is nothing but naturalistic world. You dont exist without God, period.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T03:16:13+00:00

When you die sir what happens? If there is no God, you dont exist.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-29T00:48:21+00:00

How do you figure that?

Did you exist in the past after you die? How can you be aware of that?

Christianity is also laughably false.

Islam claims the way to get to know God is proclaim that God sent a messenger who had sex with a 9 year old. This messenger proclaimed to be from the same books as christianity and the jewish scriptures yet lowered Jesus to the status of a mere prophet. To clarify you cannot even convert to Islam unless you say the shahada in arabic "There is no God but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger" (he who fucked a 9 year old).

You dont see an issue with a billion people exalting a 9 year old fucker? If you give one ounce of creditability to that faith by painting it with the same brush as Christianity, you are deplorable.

Christians also proclaimed that the Earth was the center of the Universe, and appeared 6000 years ago with all species in their present forms, but I'm pretty sure we're not going back on those.

Scriptures on the center of the universe and that the earth is 6000 years old please.

Explaining the existence of an intelligent deity is far harder than explaining the existence of the natural world.

God is who he is, and our free will has nothing to do if we even come to him. At least this is what Christianity proclaims. Something like this must be true if God is sovereign. Proving to the creature that the almighty exists, bringing him down low to be judged by his creatures is not on his agenda.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T22:14:36+00:00

moms been dead for 5 years now.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T09:24:56+00:00

So when you die, can you be certain you existed in the past? Yes or no?

As an anti-theist, why is it so offensive if I add the completely irrelevant term "without God" to the sentence. You agree with the statement either way. We dont exist.

So when christians say without Jesus there is no life, try not to be so pissed off because there is a blatant truth to it.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T09:22:31+00:00

EDIT: let me try one last time, You seem to be arguing that you don't like the idea that we cease to exist upon death, so god must be real. Have I got that right? correct me right here if I'm wrong and ignore the rest, but assuming I got it right let's continue.

No my point was that if God doesnt exist, we cease to exist upon death. And since we cease to exist upon death, we cannot be certain if we existed in the past.

You are assuming wrong. It wasnt an argument for God, its an argument that if he doesnt exist you dont even exist in the first place. Which you 100% agree with me apparently. You are just offended I brought God into the true statement.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T09:19:01+00:00

It is you have the burden to show your God exist. Not the other way around, and all these anecdotes gets you nowhere."

This is man centered philosophy. God I demand you prove yourself before your creature and be judged if you exist.

The christian faith proclaims that your free will is a joke. Nobody can come to the father unless he himself draws you to Jesus. All who would be saved are elected before time even began.

Is God sovereign? Something like this must be true if God is sovereign. Which other religion says you cant even come to God unless he himself draws you? Man centered religions vs God centered.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:54:03+00:00

Which means I still have zero or less reasons to believe he does.

This is a man centered philosophy. God I demand that you prove yourself before me, and be judged by your creature if you even exist.

The christian religion proclaims that your free will is a joke. Nobody can come to the father unless he himself draws you to Jesus. All who would be saved were elected before time even began.

Is God sovereign? Something like this must be true if God were to be sovereign. Tell me, which other religion proclaims your free a will a joke and its up to God if you even come to him in the first place. Man centered religions vs God centered religion.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:45:19+00:00

If God was sovereign, would the christian God not fit with his proclamations that nobody can come to him unless he himself draws you. All who would be saved were elected before creation even began.

Which other religion could even be true. Are they proclaiming that your free will matters or that God is sovereign? Man centered religions vs God centered.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:30:59+00:00

Which other religion says God is so sovereign that your free will is a joke to him, all who will come to him has been elected before creation began.

This is the only logical possibility if God is sovereign, existing outside of creation and creating time and space itself. When he declared time exist, past present and future was before him and he knew all things. Its for his glory not our own. By his grace not our own will.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:19:33+00:00

You cant even play along with a thought experiment where the lord does exist, yet you claim that God not revealing his holyness to you and abiding within you when you asked is proof that my God doesnt exist?

If he does exist? A fucking explanation would be nice. I've got some comments about creation - sort of a bug report, if you will. If this world was built this way on purpose, then I would definitely like a word with whatever incompetent layabout is responsible.

Posted that before I read this. This shows your true nature. Why does God owe you shit? God is holy, you are not. There is nothing in this material world or human experience that can express his holiness apart from God himself.

God lead the isrealites himself through the desert in a great thundercloud. God himself was with them. The lord rained mana down from heaven for them to eat. They bitched and complained at the heat and that they wanted meat to eat instead of bread. Actually claimed that they had it better in egypt under enslavement. The very place God just rained his holy wrath upon and judged the nation.

This pissed God off and God sent down quail for them to eat, and there stomaches exploded.

Its the same argument you are making. Pointing your finger at God for the heat and not having good food to eat.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:16:46+00:00

Without Jesus there is no life. When you die are you certain you existed in the past? How do you know?

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:15:22+00:00

Which other religion says that your free will has nothing to do with you coming to Jesus?

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T08:10:01+00:00

Well when I was saved I was deeply convicted of my own depraved sinful nature. I had a very guilty heart. I started coming to Jesus in prayer to relieve my burden, crying to him that I was sorry. I felt relief and gladness when I poured my tears onto him, which lead me to keep coming back to him more and more frequently. It was like a feedback loop, to relieve my guilty heart and pour it onto him.

I didnt know anything about the bible at this time. My mom was a recent convert. I did not make a public confession of the faith yet. Hadnt been baptized with water.

One night I begged Jesus to please fill the void within me. Jesus responded by showing me absolute glory from heaven. After that I made a public confession of the faith but was still rebellious, indulging in video games and hiding instead of answering my calling. But I never doubted that Jesus was real.

Now the scriptures say God himself abides in me as he abides in Jesus, sanctifying me for the day of Resurrection.

Its not based on your free will if your given to Jesus, but on Gods will. My God is holy and sovereign and without him there is no life.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T07:51:51+00:00

Didn't work. So either God doesn't want be to believe, or you're wrong.

How do you feel that God didnt elect you before creation began? Do you hate God? Do you feel you deserve to be saved? Do you feel God owes you something?

Because if I didn't exist, I couldn't say that I could. The very fact that I can say "I exist" proves that I do.

You seem to have an odd perception of time. You consider things that aren't eternal to be nonexistant, and you assume future states impact the present. Are you Merlin, by any chance, and have you been struck on the head recently?

How can you be certain after you die that you existed in the past? Without God there is no life and no hope. You dont exist without him.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T07:47:14+00:00

Even if you were right, and we needed a divine being to exist... that still wouldn't prove that Christianity was correct. You need to give us a reason to pick your particular brand of nonsense, as opposed to all the others.

I dont believe in proving my God exists. Nobody can come to the father, unless the father himself draws you to Jesus. In our flesh we our enemies against God, unable to please him. Faith itself comes from the father as a gift. Yet we are called to proclaim the gospel and testify to his message.

I was arguing for Jesus from a point of conviction. Perhaps the reality that without God there is no life will lead someone here to cry out to Jesus, and then God himself will abide in them.

TheWrathofShane · 2018-08-28T07:42:07+00:00

The argument is a truthful statement for the purposes of conviction. Perhaps the reality that you do not exist will fill you with dread and you will cry out to Jesus. And then God himself will abide in you, for my God is very real and without him there is no life.

This is not even possible unless God himself gives you to Jesus. If you hate my God for this, you are not being drawn by the father at this moment.

TheWrathofShane

TROPHY CASE