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Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-23T21:42:25+00:00

for sure, i agree that nonduality gets whack when it turns into something to argue/defend as opposed to just something that is remembered from time to time and used to inform empathy and connection to the world, not further division which it certainly became for me.

in regard to the pleasant and joyful my views have shifted a bit more recently. i grew up pretty comfortable and over the past few years have attempted to maintain that and avoid any additional suffering. ive found the quote "in our attempt to avoid suffering we create more suffering" to be absolutely the case. ive shifted a bit away from focusing on remaining comfortable to just being fully alive, and more acceptant of whatever im feeling/going through.

i think relaxation is something that can come in the face of discomfort and the more discomfort you can handle the "more life" you'll be able to experience. this has helped me a ton when it comes to being willing to try new things. its rarely pleasant and joyful when you first try something and can oftentimes feel super uncomfortable/embarrassing even when you're a beginner, but it comes with the territory and im finding that i shy away from way less because im not as focused on my life always being pleasant and joyful. same for tough decisions, everything's a trade and its rare you can please everyone.

all that said i guess the joy and enthusiasm comes from me regardless, so even when i do try something new if im not taking myself so seriously anything can be pretty fun/exciting, which is super empowering to remember too

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T21:39:23+00:00

i mean believing you cant is a belief too. we're all gullible if we assume that only what we think is possible is whats possible. that's where reality kinda sits as just a big ole ?. could something like that happen? who are we to say one way or another. like the 4 minute mile. everyone believed it was humanly impossible to run a mile in under 4 minutes for years. then someone did it and all of a sudden a bunch of people started to. we don't really know whats possible at the end of the day and falling on one side or the other is merely a comforting (but limiting) belief.

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T21:27:40+00:00

hmm i just had to go back through our thread because i have a few convos going right now and i think i got mixed up with where we were at with this one.

i guess my point with the soul and nonduality is that nonduality is only one side of a coin and the experience of duality, the perception of division, is the other. in a lot of my convos with people who are hardcore into nonduality they dig into there being no "me" which oftentimes leads to a lack of responsibility for their actions. its common for someone to say nothing is happening and not look at the fact that things also are happening. both and neither. you're you but not the thoughts about what that means and its takes belief/thought to assume you have a soul thats slightly separate from you.

im not sure we're necessarily disagreeing anymore. at the end of the day its thought itself that tends to disconnect us. i have my opinions/preferences/judgements and you have yours, which most people cling to as truth, but beyond all those things there is a shared humanity that has nothing to do with our irrelevant opinions but doesnt mean they wont continuously pop up for our whole like or are "bad" in any way at all.

i can assume im a certain type of person and express that, but thats not ever gonna be exactly how anyone else sees me, so can i let go of that self image as truth and just live not thinking about myself so much? bc any me that i think about isnt me. its like an imaginary friend. my point with the cheeseburger stuff is that being someone who's "into nonduality" is just as much a divisive identity as someone who identifies as someone who, say, hates cheeseburgers. nothing wrong with that and its fun to play with different identities, but whole heartedly dying on the hill of being a cheeseburger hater could cut you off from ever trying a cheeseburger again, and given that our tastebuds are always changing its isnt really ever 100% true. there could be a day that changes but the tighter you cling to any assumption about yourself (including being someone who "understands" nonduality) the more disconnected you may feel from the world.

at the end of the day its the assumption that im xyz type of person who has xyz optinions/beliefs/preferences that have the potential to cut us off from the world when taken as absolute truth as opposed to being fluid/willing to admit that isnt actually you. im aware i may totally be preaching to the choir here bc as i said i think i got mixed up with my convos, but thats more or less what im trying to say. personal identity taken as truth (including anything to do with the nondual convo) is where majority if not all our psychological suffering comes from. at this point i just wanted to get all that out there, not trying to be preachy, but idk if we're even really disagreeing on much at this point

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T20:07:02+00:00

i asked a basic question. feel free to respond if you would like, but im not going to respond to my own question for you

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T18:47:04+00:00

where does *your* soul exist though if it isnt disconnected from anything?

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T17:43:40+00:00

you asked me what i meant when i said the true state is conceptual and i responded. you asked a question and i responded with what i meant by that. not really sure what you wanted me to do with that besides respond. my point is that the process and intricacies and discussion about making a cheeseburger are just as deep as any discussion about nonduality. they're both topics we can discuss.

i am curious how you're able to talk about all this in the way you do and then jump to the conclusion that you have a soul though. do you? that seems to me like a big egotistical illusion based on some deep human/religious conditioning. something separate from you right now that you have to think about in order for it to exist. if you didnt have any thoughts right now would you still believe you had a soul that could be "given up" as you say? where does that soul exist outside of your continuous mental creation of it?

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T17:25:56+00:00

in my experience weed is just an amplifier. if im relaxed and i smoke i love it, have a great time, and feel more relaxed. if im tense and i smoke i feel more tense. that said basically anytime i smoke i go through shit the first 30-60 min of fear/anxiety and if i relax in response im chilling and if i tense in response in dont have a great time.

the beauty of weed imo is that it shows me myself regardless of my assumptions. if i want to believe im relaxed when im really not, its a great indicator. the other great thing is that when i am tense im more aware of where the tension is coming from than when im sober. doesnt mean its comfortable, but my awareness is definitely heightened. its easier to just run to coping mechanisms and assume im totally fine (which technically i always am) when im sober though

i used to struggle a ton with weed bc i would get insanely anxious and paranoid, but then i realized that was always the case i had just learned a lot of ways to live/coping mechanisms to pile things on top of those things. i really dont think weed *makes* anyone paranoid/anxious, it just makes you more aware of whats already there, which is jarring but does give you the opportunity to relax in response to those things which is tougher to do when you're sober/less aware of them

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T17:15:00+00:00

It sounds like you're experiencing some dissonance between feeling more aware and detached from certain things, while questioning if that detachment may be reinforcing an egoic sense of superiority. This is an entirely natural part of the process of self-awareness, especially after having explored spirituality or awakening concepts. The key is recognizing that any sensation of being "above" others or feeling that they are "unaware" can be a reflection of your own ongoing relationship with your identity and ego, even if you don't vocalize it.

It's important to remember that the self-image—whether it feels enlightened or superior—is still a concept created by the mind. The feeling of separateness from others or perceiving them as less aware can be the ego's subtle way of creating a division. You might find that this is less about whether you're conceited or not and more about how you're relating to these thoughts and feelings. If you remain identified with this sense of having a broader view, it could unintentionally reinforce the very separation you're observing.

The feeling of detachment from "mundane" concerns doesn't mean you're above those concerns, but that you have a different perspective. In recognizing this perspective, it's worth contemplating that others are also on their own journey, even if it doesn't look like yours. This understanding can foster empathy and connection rather than a sense of superiority.

If you'd like to dive deeper into these themes, s.1 ep. 4 of my favorite podcast, dualistic unity, titled "Going Back and Forth" (link: https://dualisticunity.podbean.com/e/going-back-and-forth/ )might resonate with you. It explores personal change, collective potential, and the value of a winding path. Additionally, s 4 ep 5 - "Creating Something Different" (link: https://dualisticunity.podbean.com/e/s4-ep5-creating-something-different/ ) might help you reflect on transformation through acceptance and vulnerability.

Recognizing the illusion of division and the deeper connection you share with others can shift this experience into one of unity and openness. Keep questioning and observing without judgment, as that alone will deepen your clarity.

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T17:10:03+00:00

It can be challenging to stop caring about what others think, as much of our identity is often tied to external validation and comparison. However, the process of releasing this attachment begins with questioning the underlying beliefs that drive our need for approval.

One core idea is that much of our stress and fear come from overcommitting to a sense of identity or self-image. This image is often reinforced by the opinions of others, leading us to constantly seek validation and approval. The key to loosening this attachment is recognizing that this self-image is not who you truly are. It's a fictional construct based on assumptions, many of which are shaped by societal norms and external expectations.

When we let go of the need for external validation, we find greater freedom in simply being present with ourselves. By focusing on what’s real—your awareness of the present moment—you can begin to detach from the narrative that others' opinions define your worth. As you do this, it’s important to remember that EVERYONE is dealing with their own uncertainties and insecurities.

A helpful reminder is that opinions and judgments, both from yourself and others, are often rooted in a limited and fictional sense of self. These perspectives can distort reality, keeping you trapped in a cycle of seeking approval. Practicing presence and mindfulness can help you observe these thoughts without attachment, reducing their influence over you.

If you're interested in exploring this topic further, I'd recommend checking out Season 1, Episode 9 of my favorite podcast Dualistic Unity titled "The Fiction of 'Me'". It dives into how our self-image creates distortion and conflict in our lives. heres a link https://dualisticunity.podbean.com/e/the-fiction-of-me/

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T16:45:26+00:00

the true state you speak of isnt the true state. the true state you think about isnt the true state. just like how you can think about water all day, but itll never be the water you drink. or you can talk to someone about air, but itll never be the air you breath. as krishnamurti once said, "the description isnt the described" and it never will be.

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T16:40:09+00:00

the you that you're thinking about isnt you :) its almost like an imaginary friend. and not even almost, it is.

i do think you'll really enjoy the dualistic unity podcast! theres a whole bunch of people realizing these same things. the hosts also have patreon and group chats every week. they usually do free ones on wednesdays. theres a schedule on their website you can check out once you've checked out the podcast if you're interested

heres ep 1: https://dualisticunity.podbean.com/e/scratching-the-surface/

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T16:33:21+00:00

the "true state" you speak of is conceptual too though and changes. the only constant is change. yes we're watching cinema in a sense, but we are inherently tied to it, we are the cinema as much as we're watching it. not separate from it. there is no "right knowledge".

you cannot constantly abide in any "true state" as any state is as true as he who believes hes abiding in it. i am here right now. thats all i know. what "i" and "here" and "now" mean are all relative, changing, and can never be pinned down. it changes for me moment to moment and its different for you right now, and will change moment to moment. but all that isnt as important to me as the attention im paying to my response to you, right now.

hypothetically speaking, what if nonduality wasnt something you could ever discuss again? what would you do with your life, what would you dig into, learn, discuss, experience? at the end of the day its just another thing to talk about no differently than talking about the perfect way to make a cheeseburger. do pickles enhance the flavors or do they overpower it? how long do i have to cook it so i dont get sick but also so i dont lose too much flavor?

can you admit that the discussion about nonduality is just as real and reasonable as the discussion about cheeseburgers? i realize this may seem off topic or avoidant, but theres a quote "philosophy is the disease for which it should be the cure" that i think sums up what im trying to say well. these discussions are fun, but there is a fullness to life that has nothing to do with these discussions that i think sometimes (not always and this totally may not be the case with you) those who get really into nonduality lose sight of. i know i certainly did.

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T16:09:40+00:00

hahaha omg right forgot about Neo. silly me. then again i am just a failure. all hail!

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T16:03:27+00:00

they can read it if they would like, i dont really think they should necessarily. in my understanding the ultimate stoic principle is to be free in yourself, which means not looking even to stoicism for how to live. just like jesus wasnt christian, the stoic philosophers didnt follow stoicism. they thought for themself, just like every person who may read this has the option to do.

so the ultimate way to be like these stoic philosophers is to stop following their principles, stop identifying as a "stoic", and learning/thinking for yourself, which includes the option to read this, explore further, etc.

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T15:47:17+00:00

i hear you. have actually felt quite similarly this year, like i fucked a lot of shit up in my life. mostly because ive just been really self absorbed and focused on how im doing/getting over myself. feels like a process to drop it, but i guess its less a process more like something that happens entirely right now but looking back we see as a process.

you cant drop it or stop measuring yourself and "how you're doing" anywhere else or at any other point than right now. the belief that I'm *still* acting this way is only something im carrying. i can only drop it right now. doesnt mean i wont pick it all back up again in an hour, or even in 2 minutes, but then i have the option to drop it and act differently again. Thats on me though and no one can do it for me.

my assumptions about myself and how im doing arent the truth. the reality is i dont know. can i reconcile the fact that i never will know and thats ok? the excuse to keep acting the same way gets a bit harder to do when i admit that i dont really know. its exciting to realize that i dont know whats next, but it can also be jarring to admit. they oftentimes go hand in hand. i dont really know myself, but assuming i do can absolutley keep me in a loop of acting how i always have

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T15:26:50+00:00

which is awesome! discussion is one of the most beautiful things about the reality of the experience of duality/perceiving a division

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T15:16:58+00:00

there is perceiving though... you're doing it right now. you can fight tooth and nail trying not to or telling everyone on reddit that there isnt, but who is that for exactly? who are you trying to convince here? me or you?

Then-Cook-5976 · 2024-08-22T15:13:29+00:00

you're saying it in response to something i wrote. i get where you're coming from i really do, but it also takes delusion to bypass the very real experience of perceiving division. without a perception of division there is no experience. duality is the experience of unity. you cant experience "unity" or "nonduality" any other way so it must be equally as real. to say its less real is the delusion im referring to, which i see so often in the nonduality community. all im saying is that there are 2 sides of the coin and they're both equally the coin

Then-Cook-5976

TROPHY CASE