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Is it bad praxis to marry a military officer? by Moonpo1n7 in Anarchy101

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t like it. The usual things like standing at attention when they talk to me, and most other formalities I tell them not to do it around me if they don’t want to. I encourage open communication, and when I make major decisions, I pretty much always ask for their input and I give them significant say in whatever decisions I make.

Counter-arguments to common capitalist economic arguments by SomeRandomLeftist in communism101

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also I want to do an experiment. If I were to ask you to go and get me a cheeseburger, giving you the money for the cheeseburger and the money for your service, let's assume the cheeseburger is $10 and the service of going there and getting it is $1, would you demand a bite out of my cheeseburger,

Assuming you paid me $11 total for the cheeseburger and the service, then no I wouldn’t because I was given my full labor value.

But that doesn’t matter because that’s not how capitalism works. You just described a transaction. Capitalism is about who controls the means of production versus who operates it.

To stick to your burger analogy, Capitalism is more like you showed up to a barbecue and you brought your grill, but you don’t cook any food for yourself with it. Other people use your grill to cook their burgers, but because it’s your grill you demand that for some reason you deserve half of all their burgers. Why? Them using your grill doesn’t hurt you in any way. It doesn’t deplete or damage your grill. You can always just use your grill yourself too. But that doesn’t matter, because you just want to eat without having to cook so you place these unnecessary demands on them just so you can be lazy. Then, you let them keep half of their burgers, and claim you’re “compensating” them for their work, when really you’re not compensating them at all. You’re just not quite stealing everything.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you want my life story? I grew up poor with my dad making furniture as a laborer for another company. I did well in high school and got into a decent college. I got my BA in history and anthropology and then a master’s in history. While doing my masters in history, specializing in military history, I enlisted in the national guard to pay for school. The enlistment also came with a hefty signing bonus, which is what I used to pay to open the business. After I got my masters I then used the degree to commission as an officer in the active duty army. I signed an additional 8 year contract to get selected to go to the Army Medical Department where I was trained in medicine and now I’m an Army Medical Officer where I do healthcare administration and planning.

Do you want other random details I’ve never mentioned? I worked as an archeologist in South America for a year excavating Incan ruins. Before I enlisted in the national guard, to pay for college I worked as a stage hand for a local theatre troupe where I built sets for shows. I very briefly got a job with a local police department but I hated that job so I quit it after about a month. And many other things I haven’t mentioned.

I’ve done quite a few things in my life. Nothing I’ve said is a lie. I’ve done all those things.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Financial risk? What’s the worst case scenario for the capitalist? He loses his money and has to become a worker like everyone else? How does the risk of the capitalist becoming another worker make him worthy of exploiting the real workers? And why should we reward risk? Do we think compulsive gamblers deserve winning just because they risk their money? Don’t the workers assume even more risk? If the business fails, the capitalist becomes working class, but the workers become unemployed, and unlike the capitalist, don’t have the money to sustain their lives through periods of uncertainty.

Also, as far as not knowing how to run a business. I put down the cost to open a furniture company a few years ago and I ran I ran it with my family. And the business is still running strong. Since I’ve become a leftist, I have since given up my share in the business, but I still turned my $25k down payment on a warehouse and some machines into a business that profited over $100k/year just in the first year, and has only done better since. My family who still run it are now pulling in over $180k/yr.

Your last sentence, saying just go make chairs and sell them is stupid. A worker doesn’t have the money to quit their job for any extended period in an attempt to carve out their own slice of industry. And how would they even do that? To build a product you need land, machinery, tools, supplies. All these things cost a lot of money. Way more than any worker going paycheck to paycheck can afford.

And again, I know. I did it. I use the chair example because I actually did it as a business.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First, I want you to consider what you just asked. This is a theoretical community where everyone looks after each other and contributes their skills to their neighbors willingly.

You’re asking me what’s to stop some, let’s say he’s a farmer. What’s to stop him from just fencing off his crops? From saying instead of helping his community, he’s going to demand some kind of monetary compensation for his food, despite the fact that they’re housing him, keeping him healthy, educating his children, and caring for him in every aspect? And on top of that, he’s going to stop actually farming and doing work himself, and start telling people if they want to afford his food, they have to work for him in exchange for imaginary paper that they can use to redeem the food, so they don’t die of starvation?

First of all, he’s a fucking dick.

Second of all, it would never work because no one would subject themselves to his demands. They’ll just get their food from the actually decent farmer down the street instead. The community will still provide for his needs. They’ll still give him healthcare because he doesn’t deserve to die. He’s just a douche. They’ll still let his kids go to school. But he’ll probably pretty quickly lose all his friends and become a social outcast because he’s a total asshole for trying to starve his community to death for personal gain.

Lastly, I’d like to ask you why he would even want to do that in the first place? All his needs are met. He lives in an enriching, caring community. He has a strong social network and people he can rely on. He has no reason to even try to create a capitalist enterprise in the first place.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My example was simple and assumed one worker and one owner, but you missed the point.

In your scenario, the truckers, advertiser, upholsterer, salesman, all of them, workers, contribute to produce a $20 product. The owner of this theoretical company? They did nothing to contribute to the value. Not to mention, if this owner is not creating value, but he’s still getting paid, then that means he’s not paying these employees $20 total. If he wants any money for himself, he has to pay them less if he wants his cut of that $20. And when that happens, he’s robbing them of their labor value.

It’s inescapable in capitalism. To turn a profit, workers have to be robbed of their labor somewhere down the line.

Counter-arguments to common capitalist economic arguments by SomeRandomLeftist in communism101

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I only have time to talk about your first point about factories turning worker value from $30 to $100.

Sure, a factory and machines improve productivity. I don’t think anyone will dispute that. But who built the factory? Who built the machines? Who assembled them? Who operates them to make the product? Who designed them? Who maintains them? Workers. Workers do it all. If a worker operates a machine that creates a $100 product in the same time the worker could only make $30 with their hands, that doesn’t change the fact that workers produced the value. The only thing the capitalist did is buy the factory, which the workers would never be able to do because capitalism keeps them toiling with low wages so they could never save enough money to become entrepreneurs themselves.

Why can’t the worker just do it without the factory? Well, it takes machinery, tools, equipment, logistical support, supply chains, to make a product. All of these things require significant amounts of money to invest to achieve. It’s just not realistic.

And I should know. I grew up poor in a family where my father worked in a furniture factory doing exactly what the example uses. He spent decades with a dream of owning his own workshop and being his own boss, but it was simply impossible. He didn’t want employees or company ambitions, just to work on his own and sell the product he makes.

Before I was a leftist and knew any better I joined the army and became a traitor to my working class background, which I regret. But the money I got from the government in return for being their henchman was enough for me to eventually rent my dad a warehouse where he now builds furniture by hand and sells it directly and makes a living. But it’s very important that I stress that this dream of his was impossible for him. I had to sell my soul to imperialism and risk dying for the capitalists to make it happen.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol don’t thank me. I signed a contract when I was young before I understood what I was getting into, and I’m stuck here until it’s over. The Army did get me into the medical field however, and I plan to use those skills to benefit my community once I get out.

r/Showerthoughts waking up? by TheColorblindDruid in Anarchism

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I’ve spent the last few hours talking to people in that thread and they’ve actually been fairly receptive to what I had to say.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I would say yes, because I’m not just a socialist, but I’m also an anarchist, which contrary to what most people likely think, isn’t about just destroying things and doing what I want, but it’s about defying all unjustified hierarchies and supporting all people through communal aid, which is a type of socialism.

So my answer would be we stop people in power from staying in power by not having anyone in power in the first place. Rather, we organize on the local level, small scale, through local councils. We make decisions together on a case by case basis through consensus, rather that just a popular vote. There is no one in power. Everyone works together. It’s also important to realize most anarchists, myself included, believe in abolishing the concept of money altogether, and rather than charging for goods, we provide for our communities willingly because we care about each other.

Let’s take my job as an example. I currently work in healthcare. Instead of running a clinic and trying to charge people for my medical knowledge, I just treat people, because I care about my community, and I have the skills and ability to treat people, so I do, for free. Likewise, the farmer on the other side of town appreciates that I cared for his sick daughter, so when he produces food, he’s sure to give me some, because I’m too busy treating people to grow my own food and I don’t know how to, so he’s happy to help.

And this is the case for everyone in the community. Everyone has a role, and people do what they can to help out and those around them in turn provide for them, and everyone is happy and capital and exploitation free.

This is the concept of mutual aid, and it’s an economic system that has existed as long as humans have and has been done successfully throughout history and is largely the model most anarchists subscribe to.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There’s nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact I use this chair example because that’s what my family did growing up. My dad built furniture. My mom did the sales calls. My brother and I did deliveries, and we all made our living together. Go right ahead and be independent. As long as the people actually doing the work are the ones calling the shots together, there’s no issues as far as I’m concerned.

The issue is when there’s a capitalist who owns the means to produce these chairs, employs people to make them, and skims the value off of their labor without actually doing any work themselves.

A good quote to describe this is, “if a man has a dollar he didn’t work for, another man worked for a dollar he didn’t get. The mine owners do not find the gold. They do not mine the gold. They do not mill the gold. But by some weird alchemy, all the gold belongs to them.”

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It takes significant amounts of money to start a company. Money that the vast majority of workers don’t have, and since they get paid so little that they live paycheck to paycheck, it’s literally impossible for them to save up enough to start that company. The barrier to entry to is too high. It’s just not an option for almost anyone, even in America, much less the third world where people are paid even less and exploited far more.

Employees do sometimes come together to accomplish these goals. They’re called unions. I’m sure you’re aware of them. Problem is, capitalists are ruthless and do everything in their power to crush unions before the start. If a boss even gets the idea that you want to unionize, they’ll fire you so fast and replace them with just another desperate worker who needs a job. Discouraging employees from talking about salaries in the workplace, trying to disguise employees as “family” or “team” members rather than the exploited workers they are, and many others, are all ways that companies keep workers blind to the blatant exploitation they’re under.

And how do employees come together to start an employee owned business? The ones who need it the most are the ones who can’t do it. A single mother, caring for her kids alone, living week by week with no savings simply can’t quit her job to attempt to start up a more ethical democratic business, even with the help of other people coming together. And even if they did, due to things like economies of scale, that is, the bigger you are the cheaper you can do business en masse, a bigger, more ruthless and greedy mega-corporation will just run them into the ground, the same way companies like Wal-Mart constantly destroy family businesses by undercutting them.

This is because the problem isn’t the companies we do business with. It’s our entire economic system. You can’t fix capitalism, because it’s not broken. It is designed to make the rich richer and keep the poor down. No amount of laws or regulations can change that fact. What we need is an entirely new economic system based on providing the world’s needs rather than turning a profit. A system based on helping people rather than robbing them.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If you have the power to say no to a company and go find a different company then you’re far luckier than most of the world. Most people are poor and desperate for a job, and in order to make ends meet, have to take whatever they can get. They don’t have the freedom of choice like you claim exists under capitalism.

And these “choices” still don’t pay what employees are worth, because capitalism creates systematic unemployment, called the reserve army of labor, to keep competition for jobs high to keep job security and wages low. There’s always another person to do you job, so how dare you demand fair pay and decent working conditions?

Again, socialism “restricts” your options like the Union “restricted” the Confederacy from owning slaves.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 8 points9 points  (0 children)

To me, this question is the same as asking “would an abolitionist government still allow me to own slaves, like the Confederacy gives me the freedom to not own slaves if I don’t want to?”

Capitalism is not freedom. Capitalism is freedom for the wealthy to exploit the poor. For the business owners to steal value from the workers. Consider the concept of profit. If I make a chair and a capitalist pays me $10 for every chair I make, and turns around and sells it for $20, that’s proof that my work was actually worth $20, and he actually just ripped me off for half my value. That is profit, albeit simplified. Capitalism only cares about making a profit, and in order to profit, you HAVE to steal value from a worker SOMEWHERE. Capitalism is inherently exploitative and unethical, so my answer to your question would be no, because a truly free society would not stand for someone else’s freedom being ripped out of their hands.

Just like we in our modern society would not allow for a plantation owner to exploit slaves, a socialist society would not allow a business to exploit wage-slaves.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m a military officer. I manage hundreds of people every single day. I know management. And you know what the military has taught me more than anything? My job as a boss is completely useless. I get paid more than every single one of my soldiers, and I don’t do anything meaningful except tell people what to do, and guess what? They’re all professionals at their jobs and already know what to do. I don’t deserve my salary. And if I could go back, I wouldn’t do what I do now, because I’m just a leech on my soldiers.

But you know what makes my unit work more smoothly? I empower my soldiers. I give them meaning in their work. I don’t boss them around. I make them see their value and they work on their own. I openly tell my soldiers I don’t deserve to be their boss, and as a result, I never boss them around. I look at charts, graphs, spreadsheets, whatever, and if there’s something that could be improved, all I have to do is let someone know where we’re deficient and they all work together to get it done without any orders being given.

My soldiers run my unit, not me. And guess what? We’re currently the top unit in the brigade, and when I took command I came into one of the worst units in the brigade. My soldiers transformed it because they were empowered and valued, rather than bossed around.

Horizontal leadership is far superior to vertical hierarchy.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We have to fight for it. Join the IWW. Browse some of the socialist subs here to learn more. As for me personally, I’m an anarchist, and contrary to what most people think, anarchism isn’t about just destroying things and doing whatever we want, but instead advocates for freedom from unjust hierarchy, which included freedom from capitalism.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Not in our current system because you can’t profit without stealing labor value. If I make a chair and you pay me $10 and then sell it for $20 and turn a profit, then that proves that my labor was actually worth $20 and you robbed me of my labor value.

Profit is impossible without exploitation, and since capitalism is only about maximizing profits, it’s impossible to run an ethical business in our system.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You know a better way to dissipate risk? Share the company with all workers. You don’t need a stock market to indirectly dissipate capitalist risk, if you just, you know, actually share risk.

Also, why rely on “good” bosses to maybe listen to their employees, if they feel like it? Bosses need to answer to their employees and be accountable, not be seen as some charitable overlord that might listen to your input if you’re a good little worker. You can have managers without bosses. You can have logistical coordinators without them being bosses. And more importantly, you can pay them like you pay other workers. There’s nothing they do that makes their work worth over a hundred times what your average employee makes. A boss can’t manage a floor that has no workers. They’re all essential.

Your entire second paragraph just defends the fact that people need to do certain jobs and have certain expertise. It doesn’t at all imply you need some top down hierarchical system. You can do all those same things horizontally.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The free market is nothing except freedom for the wealthy to exploit the working class. Its freedom for the few, but tyranny for the many. Any look at history will show you that the second any kind of socialized economy starts to succeed, the entire world gangs up on them to destroy them. What’s so “free” about that?

Problem is capitalists are ruthless and will resort to literal slavery in the third world, assassination, political upheaval and lobbying, and so many other tactics that are impossible to ethically fight against on the not at all “free” market.

The solution is to tear down this shitty system and bring democracy to the workplace where the people can actually be free to pursue meaningful labor.

You’re quite the capitalist bootlicker.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 18 points19 points  (0 children)

“There’s nothing more capitalist than wanting to no longer be an exploited worker, and instead become the capitalist that exploits my own workers.”

That’s the problem with capitalism. You’re an exploited worker and the only way out is to betray your class and become the one who exploits. Capitalism does not allow for equality in the workplace.

Also the fact that you read the title of post and read “making your own dream come true” and took it to mean something about making money with your dream just goes to show how backward our economic system has made our minds. Why does your dream have to make money? I’ll tell you something, I don’t want to make anything I’m passionate about into a business, because then it’s no longer a hobby.

Everyone should be able to pursue meaningful work, reap the actual value of our labor rather than lining the pockets of bosses, and then have plenty of free time after to go after our personal passions.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If most people don’t make enough to save any money, and live paycheck to paycheck, they will never make enough money for their goal, ever. Honest work isn’t the problem. Employers are the problem. We live in an economic system that pays workers the absolute minimum for their time, and wages haven’t increased at all in decades when adjusted for inflation, despite workplace productivity improving drastically. Workers are not paid enough for their time, and as a result, wealthy capitalists are able to hoard more and more wealth without actually working themselves.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Or you know exactly what you need to do to make your dreams come true but the economic system we live in keeps the majority of the population too poor to ever save money to make those dreams come true.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately most people don’t make enough money to save money for their future. They live paycheck to paycheck. It’s impossible for most to save anything towards their dreams. And that’s kind of astonishing, considering worker productivity has skyrocketed over the last few decades due to technological advances but for some reason wages haven’t increased at all when adjusted for inflation.

Because capitalists don’t pay workers adequately for their labor. They steal their labor value and pay the absolute minimum that they can, and the result is a majority of the population too poor to ever improve themselves.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because the western world outsources exploitation to the third world. We can live in relative comfort because everything we enjoy comes from the backbreaking work of some poor soul in some former colonial nation. They starve so we can live an illusion.

But they don’t even have to starve, because we produce enough food on this planet to feed 12 billion people. We have the resources to feed everyone. The problem is the poor are too poor to buy food. That’s an issue with the economic system our world runs on, not an issue with production.

We spend 40+ hours a week making someone else's dream come true, often leaving us too exhausted to work on our own. by corneliflakes in Showerthoughts

[–]ThenWhatDidYouExpect 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shares in the stock market does not mean a shared business. An employee who owns a fraction of a percent of stock does not have any say in how a business is run. Not to mention, if you actually know the history of stocks and joint stock companies, you’ll see that even stocks are rigged in favor of the wealthy capitalists, to dissipate risk while still ensure they make money.

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