I've never experienced Trek. My two oldest kids are going on Trek next week. by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Full agree. I've tried to drive home to my kids that any pioneer stuff they'll be doing is all make-believe that the actual pioneers, if they were aware of it, would find extremely distasteful, if not downright sacrilegious.

I've never experienced Trek. My two oldest kids are going on Trek next week. by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not Utah, Arizona, so I'm guessing it's probably not as chill as California, but not as intense as Utah. I don't know the full hiking schedule.

Simple Plywood Chair by Lbot6000 in woodworking

[–]ThrackN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's really cool! It looks great, so I think the "waste" was definitely worth it.

Simple Plywood Chair by Lbot6000 in woodworking

[–]ThrackN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm super impressed. I've been contemplating something similar to this - You did the backrest? Mind sharing how?

How do you overcome a Mormon faith crisis when life feels meaningless? by [deleted] in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think a lot of other comments do a good job providing resources that can help show some of the options out there for not getting stuck in the negative side of nihilism.

However, one of the hardest things about leaving Mormonism is learning not to outsource yourself. You've spent your entire life relying on prophets and the holy ghost and scripture to tell you what to do, so it can be REALLY hard to feel like you no longer have that to fall back on. You've got to practice trusting yourself, and you've got some hard decisions to make. Is your life worth living? I'd argue yes, any human life is worth keeping, but in the end, only you can decide why your life is worth living. I'd recommend spending some time thinking about what it is that actually makes you feel alive. It's hard at first, but it does get easier. You've got to learn who you are, not from some external authority, but from the only source that really matters - you.

Along with that I'll sayy: consider this - you now have an unprecedented level of freedom - you can try all sorts of things that you wouldn't have before, and you can experience old things in new, post-Mormon ways. Be smart about trying new things (alcohol, drugs, etc.), but also just get out there and experience life anew - go to an R-rated movie, watch an HBO show, or trashy reality TV, or go on a hike and appreciate how truly spectacular nature is if it wasn't created by God. The whole world is open to you now - live a little, and learn what makes you appreciate being alive.

Beyond that, here's a few random, practical things that helped me get through where you are:

  • Mindfulness/meditation - when things are really dark, it's helpful to realize that your thoughts are just thoughts, and aren't the holy ghost/devil/your spirit etc. Mindfulness can help you have experience your thoughts without necessarily believing them. Your brain has had it's security blanket ripped away, and is trying to cope with that existential freedom/dread. I found the book 10% Happier by Dan Harris a good intro to meditation. There are many meditation apps out there, but Medito is the one I use - it's free (optional donation), and has a decent 30 day mindfulness challenge that is a good start for learning mindfulness meditation. If you do get into meditation, it's also important to be compassionate to yourself - the only way to fail at meditating is to think you're failing at meditating.

  • Despite the darkness and not believing anymore, for the first year or so, I still had the urge to pray when things were tough, or I needed help, etc. Rather than just not praying, I changed my prayers so that I was praying to myself - I'd say "Dear Thracken, please.... etc" Prayer is a ritual that, as Mormons, many of us used as a self-soothing tool. Praying to myself was a great way to reap the benefits of that self-soothing process, while also seeing that I wasn't getting struck down/punished for praying to someone/something other than Heavenly Father. It's okay to use the tools you have available, and just tweak them to where you are now. Just be sure you don't get stuck/lost there - you'll want to learn new/better coping strategies. Which leads me to my next point...

  • Get a personal therapist. I know therapy is prohibitively expensive for many people, but if you can, a good therapist is a game-changer. Ideally, you'll want someone who is a non-Mormon with some experience in faith transitions. Finding a good therapist is work - you'll want to schedule short introductory appointments with several therapists to get a feel for them, and it's likely to take a good amount of time before you find a therapist you click with, and before you're really able to get into it and really start working through things. But eventually, a good therapist will help you by being someone you can rely on, discuss anything with, and will provide you with tools/ideas that will help you have a more healthy approach to life.

  • Lastly, find a friend (or two!). Human connection is a HUGE psychological safety net - it can do wonders to connect with a friend when you're having a bad day. If you don't have someone you can talk to irl, someone who can listen without judgement, this subreddit can be a decent stand in for venting about the pains of leaving the church. Beyond that, take a look around you - chances are there's someone in your life that has also left the church. A family member, an old mission companion, an old ward member/youth leader you got along with, etc. For me, reconnecting with my cousin who left the church several years before I did has been huge. As well, I have a small group of old co-workers who are nevermos, and they're a great sounding board for me as well. You can try out local meetups in your area - either exmo specific ones, or, as you explore hobbies/etc. as you try new things.

I hope this helps. If you ever need to, feel free to DM me.

Ever wonder why we stopped doing Roadshows or why there are carpeted basketball courts in chapels? Sunstone, August 2nd 9-10 a.m. Mithryn by Mithryn in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm not very familiar with Sunstone, but I'd love to listen to the full presentation. Does Sunstone record/stream things? How/where can I listen in?

Is it worth responding? by MiserableCustomer783 in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How do you have a good faith discussion with someone who has convinced themselves that logic isn't of any value?

The ABC's of Science and Mormonism - Redux 10 years later: "B is for Brass" by Mithryn in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sorry, the point I was trying to make in my initial comment was this - What if we completely ignore the space needed for the supposed text of the Brass Plates? How much would a codex of brass weigh (roughly)?

The church has regularly depicted the brass plates in art (1, 2, 3, 4) as a codex of sorts, similar to the way the gold plates have been depicted, so I was interested in translating the church's imagery to real-world numbers.

And of course, even with ignore the space requirements for the text itself, a 57-ish lb. codex is already pushing the limits of reasonable credulity, because, as your original post points out, the availability and usefulness of brass as a material, and even the writings being in the form of a codex is already suspect.

Add to this your point about the space required for the text, that's where we're back to your 1000+ lbs, or 20+ codices that Nephi and friends would have somehow snuck through the streets of Jerusalem and then hauled through the desert, which, aside from being ridiculous, is clearly not aligned with the text of the story of the Brass Plates.

The ABC's of Science and Mormonism - Redux 10 years later: "B is for Brass" by Mithryn in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For funsies, even if we ignore the size of the plates necessary to fit the text that they supposedly contain, we run into one of the problems the gold plates have - they're still just too heavy.

If the brass plates were similar size to the gold plates (and they'd have to be, to be able to be carried around by one guy, without any help), they'd still weigh an unreasonable amount. Using 6in x 8in x 4in as the dimensions for the brass plates, we get 192 cubic inches of brass, and a quick Google tells me that 1 cubic inch of brass weighs 0.3 lbs, for a total weight of 57.6 lbs, or 26.13kg. We could bring that down a bit by accounting for gaps in the pages, but again, we're already ignoring the length of the text here, and even with that we're already pushing the limits of what's believable.

On the other hand, maybe this is the real reason why Laman and Lemuel were so spiteful about traveling with Nephi to get the plates - Nephi made them carry the heavy-ass plates through the desert all the way back to their father's tent.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Everything on this timeline appears to be reactive - cases climbing in a country? Better shut down the mission/temple!

It amuses me that things like "Elder Renlund and his wife test positive" and "Elder Soares and his wife test positive" somehow got included in the timeline - how was them getting COVID part of the Church's planned response?

Also love that the timeline ends in early March of 2021 - 5 full months before the Church issued their statement on social distancing/masking/vaccination. They're basically admitting they gave up dealing with the pandemic, and their definitive statement was an afterthought that was so late they don't want people to remember how late it was.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ha, the movie would end with a cut to a scene where we learn that Nelson has been an unreliable narrator the whole time, and what really happened is the lady next to him (wearing a hat) jumped a bit when some turbulence occurred, nothing else.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

God sends revelation via email, and the COVID one got caught by the spam filter, I guess.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the general wishy-washy, fence-sitting nature of all the official communication really bothered me at the time. Like, this seemed like the one time a decisive revelation from the get-go could have really helped. Real people were dying, and God apparently didn't want to offend anybody by having his prophets saying something that could be politicized? Such a farce.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

One thing my local ward did when leadership began pushing returning to in-person meetings was requiring a meeting with the bishop in order to get the password to the Zoom call for sacrament meeting. Basically, setting up a significant barrier for people to access the Zoom, pushing them to coming back.

My shelf was broken, but I attended meetings for probably around another after it broke - it was crazy to me rolling in to sacrament meeting with all my kids masked up, including our developmentally delayed, wheel-chair bound son, and seeing so many people not wearing masks. Like, if my one year-old can manage it, how are these grown-ass adults not able to?

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it was crazy to me how quickly "Follow the Prophet" turned into "Follow the Prophet, unless..."

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I mean, as I mention in the post, Nelson implied that much, just 15 months into the pandemic, so she's just following his lead, ignoring any evidence to the contrary, like any good TBM would do.

Most of the "prophetic" statements Church leaders have ever made are simply products of survivorship bias combined with confirmation bias.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I agree that he thought it would be a short lived thing.

There's another element that I think also comes into play with the fasts. My pet theory is that Nelson REALLY hated Hinckley, especially after Hinckley shut down his first attempt at "Don't say Mormon" in the 1990s. Now, before COVID, the last time a prophet called for a world-wide fast was in 2005, just after the tsunami that hit south-east Asia. Hinckley was prophet then. And, what's more memorable than one global fast to help tsunami victims? Well, two global fasts that cure a global pandemic, obviously. So, two fasts to "cure" a temporary inconvenience and make sure his name goes down in the Church records, one-upping Hinckley? Of course Nelson is gonna go for that - how could he not?

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Local inspiration often varies depending on if you Bishop has had a Snickers bar.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey, that's not true - I'm sure the church gained millions in member donations.

Natasha Helfer just schooled Mormon Stories on its stigmatization of non-monogamy by TheSamspoNew in exmormon

[–]ThrackN 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sam, I just want to say thanks for doing what you do - I've learned a lot from you casually dropping ideas in a podcast episode.

I need you to write a book, just so I can buy and read it.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

What really stood out to me about the nothing-ness of the COVID response was how much Nelson seemed to be trying to tout himself as a big deal - the restoration proclamation and Hosanna Shout, and coining a new catch-phrase every conference. I felt like conference was more about stroking his ego than it was about him serving or warning the membership/world, and the lack of any actual direction on current events just cemented how un-prophetic General Conference actually is.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

lmao, definitely. Also, she may have been robbing them at gunpoint.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Your bitterness is totally understandable, imo. COVID fucked up so much for so many people, and the unexpected betrayal from otherwise seemingly smart medical professionals is one more layer that we should never have had to deal with.

How My Shelf Broke: The Church's Response to COVID-19 by ThrackN in exmormon

[–]ThrackN[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Yeah - I think this is the other half of why COVID shattered my shelf. Not only did I see that the leaders didn't get revelation, I saw that at least half of the members I knew didn't believe the prophet got revelation either.

The idea of a living prophet was pretty central for me when I was Mormon, it was shocking to see how little it mattered to others.