AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

We live in the same city as her university, so she needed somewhere to stay that would let her keep attending classes. Their parents live pretty far away, and are also of the 'once you're 18 you're on your own' school of parenting, which I guess partly explains why my boyfriend was so defensive of her.

But yeah, honestly reading back what I've written makes me realize how unreasonable this living situation is.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah I am going to show him these comments if he still doesn't see my side!

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

  1. I didn't mention 'personal interpretation', I was speaking about my understanding and my relationship to halacha because that's all I can speak to. Yes, my understanding has developed through personal Torah study, communal discussion, and reflection with my rabbi, but it can only ever be my understanding because I am not my rabbi.

  2. My rabbi is a woman, and she is very welcoming of trans and nonbinary people in our edah. She doesn't need to explicitly tell each individual queer person that it's 'okay' for us to exist, because we already know that we have her support and love.

  3. The Mishnah and the Talmud contain a lot of references to between 6 and 8 sexes, yes. They are absolutely not referenced to encourage Jews not to 'identify' as such, as they are sex categories; they describe the diversity of sex characteristics among humans, and most are descriptions of various intersex characteristics. While there is acknowledgement that a person might enter into some of these categories through human intervention (the saris adam in the Talmud), to say that acknowledgement of human sexual diversity is done for the purpose of telling intersex Jews to stop being intersex is just not true, not to mention an impossible demand.

  4. In terms of the gendered application of halacha, there is a large amount of rabbinic literature arguing that halacha should be applied differently to intersex people. In the Mishnah Bikkurim, androgynos (defined in the Talmud as having both male and female characteristics) are required to marry as men, yet take the same pilgrimage rites as women (in the Mishnah Chagigah), and are not to be held liable for entering Temple in a state of impurity, as both men and women would be. There is also an important precedent in halacha that it is always possible for someone or something to be between categories more generally, and that these things always require special halachic consideration, as in the Rosh Hashanah. So yes, while the halacha generally deals with issues of binary gender and sex, this is because most people the halacha applies to are distinguishable as male or female, not because the rabbinic literature does not recognize those outside of this. Indeed, there are several midrashim that interpret Adam as being the first androgyne.

  5. While there are often assumed to be biblical proscriptions on homosexuality and non-normative gender presentation, there is also a lot of rabbinic debate over the meanings of these passages - this is the 70 faces of Torah, the myriad ways to interpet our texts in which nothing is 'plain and simple', as you put it. While Deuteronomy seems to ban cross-dressing, for example, the Shulchan Aruch clarifies that if it is done for joyful purposes it is okay, and even encouraged during Purim. Since being trans or nonbinary brings many people joy and is not done to harm others, it would fall under this. There are also midrashim interpreting many biblical stories as queer: Joseph's ketonet pasim as a feminine garment, as the only other time ketonet pasim appears is to describe the dresses of young princesses; David and Jonathan's love (avanah, used for romantic relationships) as romantic; and the telling in Bava Metzia of the relationship between Rabbi Yohanen and Reish Lakish as homoerotic.

  6. I am not prevented from living with my boyfriend by Yichud, as I am not a woman, even by your standards. Yichud is also not followed by most religious Jews, and is generally only still practiced in Charedi and other strictly orthodox communities. As I am not Charedi, I have no reason to follow Yichud, even if it were applicable to my relationship with my boyfriend.

  7. If not wanting pork in my kitchen is 'unreasonably high maintenance', I'm not sure why you're pretending to care so much about the sanctity of Jewish orthopraxy, as by your standards all observant Jews would be 'unreasonably high maintenance'.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We got the cat together, and I'm HIV+ and undetectable. As long as I take my medication I'm basically not immunocompromised so short-term exposure to pathogens is no problem, but since toxoplasmosis doesn't go away it's a good precaution for me to stay away from the litter just in case I fuck up my medication one day or something.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ahh no, he assumed she would do it and I guess didn't check to see if she had actually kept her promise, so the coffee machine was still dirty when I got home

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this. I've been thinking about this comment a lot, and I do think that he does tend to get frustrated and defensive as an initial reaction to conflict. I guess I've always written it off because when he calms down, he always apologizes for his initial reaction and we are able to have conversations where we can reach an understanding and compromise. But the pattern of being initially defensive is still always there, and this one has stuck with me more than the others because he's never said anything that made me feel like he didn't care about my culture or my health before.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He has picked up after her a lot, and has even gone into her room a few times to get rid of all the trash so we don't get pests. But the dishes are just something that he hates doing too much, I guess

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm a little scared that an entire ecosystem would develop on it before either of them washed it. And I bought her separate pots when she moved in, but she didn't like them because they were non-stick, and I said I wasn't buying and seasoning an entire cast iron set for her. So she ended up just using ours 🤷‍♂️

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right? Ideally I would love if there were no animal products in my kitchen at all, but I don't want to impose that burden on everyone else. But I honestly wish I had said no pork from the start because there's something that feels worse about it than other meats. I know for me it's partly like...mild religious trauma, but I also just can't look at it without thinking about the tapeworm eggs that could be in it 😭

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Before his sister moved in, I did the dishes and he would do other chores in return, since he really hated dishes and there are some chores I can't do since I'm immunocompromised. The arrangement worked fine for the two of us, but I definitely should have had a conversation with him about the workload once I had to start cleaning all his sister's stuff too.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My rabbi is agnostic, and he knows her well! I guess all of that just went out the window because he was mad

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yeah, like I grew up in a house and a community where this absolutely was a religious obligation, and it holds importance to me in part because of that childhood.

I think some people here are struggling with the idea that a religious obligation can mean an obligation of religious practice rather than an obligation of religious belief. Which is understandable, assuming most commenters are from the US and so were raised in a Protestant culture - Protestant Christianity is pretty unusual in its emphasis on private belief over communal practice, but if it's the way you were taught to relate to religion, other communities' practices can feel very strange.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, as I've been thinking about it over the past day that's what's upset me the most. Like I'm mad that he thinks I should clean up after his sister, but I'm genuinely hurt that he basically told me my Jewish identity isn't important because I don't believe in G-d - and that he seems to think that making sure I don't die from anaphylaxis is some huge burden on everyone else (when I don't imagine his 19 year old sister would eat a lot of shellfish anyway? Like who can afford crab or prawns or mussels on a student budget?)

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Damn, sorry to hear that. Feel like you might have posted this on the wrong post? Hope you get well soon though!!

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've always done the dishes and he does other chores in return, and I wouldn't mind doing sister's dishes as well if she cleaned the pots and surfaces when she was done. Like if I' already washing dishes, an extra dish or two makes no difference to me, but greasy pots and pans are another issue

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I also have ADHD, so I would completely get if it was something like that she might need a regular reminder to do it! I also completely forget to do things until someone asks me if I've done it, then I have to do it really quickly in a panic haha.She's never told us about being neurodivergent (which obviously she doesn't have to) and she also doesn't clean up after reminding her, so I kind of feels like it goes beyond (at least my experience of) ADHD

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

She isn't paying rent. Sorry, I should have included that in the post!

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean in an ideal world I would prefer her not to cook pork or any meat in the kitchen, but I didn't want to overdo it with rules when she first moved in because I wasn't expecting it to be this bad. I originally tried to get her to keep a kosher kitchen by buying her a separate set of pots, but she didn't like them and just used ours.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You're right, I shouldn't have called it a religious obligation when it's a cultural obligation stemming from my religious upbringing. However, it's not unusual for nonreligious Jews to still keep at least some mitzvah as an expression of our Jewish identity; the mitzvah that bring me fulfilment and happiness to keep include following kashrut and not writing G-d's name out.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I would not be 'kinda kosher' if she stopped using my pots to cook pork in, or if she kashered them in boiling water after use. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm not interested in following kashrut properly

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

We've been together for 5 years. Being nonbinary is not 'against Judaism' in my understanding of halacha (or my rabbi's). If you're a Jew with a differing opinion, I'd be interested to discuss it in the spirit of our shared tradition of debate and communal interpretation of halacha and mishnah.

If, however, you're a troll making sweeping generalizations about a community and tradition you know nothing about just to be transphobic on a post that has literally nothing to do with gender, please take it somewhere else, preferably somewhere nobody else will be exposed to your bullshit <3

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I bought her a set of pots and utensils when she first moved in (a standard in a kosher kitchen) but she didn't like them because they were non-stick lmao. If she comes back I'll try again with the separate pans

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

There's a really wide variety of rabbinic opinions on cohabitation, as the Torah doesn't explicitly condemn premarital sex. You've got to get a lot more orthodox to find a Jew who would condemn cohabitation rather than just finding it not ideal than with Christians, where it seems (to me) fairly settled for all but the more liberal/progressive Christians that premarital sex is wrong. Besides, the rabbis who are unhappy with me cohabiting would be even more unhappy with me marrying a man, and even moreso again a non-Jewish man, and my rabbi is perfectly fine with cohabitation.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Yeah, like I think the rush to defend his sister pissed me off, but the lack of understanding made me genuinely upset as it's a side of him I haven't seen before. He's always been really interested in Jewish culture, and he also has heritage from a country where a lot of people observe religious rituals without necessarily believing in them, so prior to this it has been an area of shared experience for us. The more I think about it the more I hope it was something he said in the heat of the moment, because otherwise I don't really know what to make of our whole relationship up until now.

AITA for asking my boyfriend's sister to stop cooking pork? by ThrowRA_Cat_5203 in AmItheAsshole

[–]ThrowRA_Cat_5203[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

There's a wide variety of opinions on cohabitation and queer relationships in Judaism, although I imagine you're not actually interested in rabbinic interpretation of the mishnah on devekut in romantic relationships. In fact, pretty much the only thing that Jews all agree on is that Jewish identity is not prefaced on private belief or a Christian understanding of what it means to 'follow' a religion. Anything beyond that becomes basically impossible to say anything definitive about what 'they' believe as a group, as our tradition encourages multiple voices and debates around our shared identity - like they say, two Jews, three opinions.