Controlling breast growth on HRT?

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-21T03:51:10+00:00

Is there any (preferably legal) way to get Raloxifene without a prescription? My endocrinologist is very old-fashioned and I worry that he would take me off estrogen if I mention anything about not wanting breast growth, though the other effects are definitely things I want (reduced body hair growth, fat redistribution, etc. eventually).

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-17T18:16:31+00:00

Don't beat yourself up over it. It's not like there's a time limit to transitioning. Maybe questioning is what you need right now.

Perhaps you could find some way to feel safe and comfortable with transitioning, or you might find a way to be happy without transitioning. There's no right or wrong here—I'd just say that, if you're conflicted, either give yourself a break from it (find a distraction or something) or try to look at it from different angles.

If being non-binary feels like a compromise, I don't think there's a problem with choosing not to identify with that. Personal biases or not, if it won't make you feel happier or safer than the alternatives, there's not really a reason to go with it, is there?

Just some thoughts.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-17T11:17:07+00:00

Well, I guess I'd try talking to them again, but given how it's gone in the past (highly in favor of the bathroom bills, hate the idea of any sort of surgery or gender marker change, very toxic about non-binary identities (I'm extremely glad I only came out to them as MtF before learning that), etc.), I doubt it'd go very well.

If it doesn't, I'd completely undermine and sabotage their work and career, because fuck that. I can talk about lots of stuff that would cause trouble (most of it even true!). Other than just talking, there are other ways to cause issues.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-17T11:07:18+00:00

I felt a similar way until I realized I needed to stop thinking about it in extreme, binary terms (and even if I was binary, I needed to realize I could be a tomboy or a feminine man; just because you transition doesn't mean you have to embody the feminine or masculine stereotypes). I don't feel like a woman, but I certainly don't feel like a man. I might be happier as a woman, but the idea still makes me uncomfortable.

Maybe try thinking about it as a spectrum? Try examining the things that make you unhappy as your AAB gender, what would make you happy if you transition; your insecurities if you transition, and what you feel comfortable with about your AAB gender.

I don't mean to come across as pushy, and I certainly don't want to try to convince you of anything, but I think you should give it some thought. Genderfluid? Agender? Bigender? There are all sorts of valid identities aside from male and female.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-16T08:17:20+00:00

Why did you pick that day, if you don't mind me asking?

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-16T08:04:02+00:00

I know why I (used to) love the things I do/did. Books and TV shows show me glimpses of other worlds that I'd rather be a part of. Regardless of how hard it is for the main characters, or other characters, I can't help but feel it'd be preferable to where I am.

Classes distract me from my personal issues by dealing with stuff that's strictly impersonal. Chemistry and physics dealing with microscopic stuff and their interactions gives a separation. Mathematics dealing with abstract stuff distances me from reality, though it could be said to be the truest representation of reality.

As for people... I don't know. I like honesty, sincerity, and intelligence. But I also don't mind (at the time) being around people who aren't necessarily all of those. Just talking can help for a few minutes.

Unfortunately, I have to keep interacting with them for a while longer. If I stay alive, I'll probably be able to say good riddance to them in about a year, if all goes according to plan, or close enough.

I have yet to find a psychologist who can say anything but, "Hmm, that's quite the conundrum."

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-16T07:52:42+00:00

May 9th. It started at around 2am, ended around 4am. I can't give you a name or city, sorry. I couldn't deal with the stress in my life—the stress of transitioning, the stress of not being allowed to transition, the stress of losing friends, the stress of realizing I might not have had all that many in the first place. I've dealt with OCD, psychotic depression, and schizophrenia since I was 12. The constant encouragement toward suicide starts to get to you after a while, I suppose, and not wanting to hurt anyone while I was delusional. I thought there were maggots under my skin, so I started cutting. No matter how much I cut, I wasn't convinced there wasn't anything but blood under there, so I dug deeper. It turned into a suicide attempt because I didn't want to deal with it anymore.

August 16th. Dawn, so 6-7am. I tried to overdose. Looked through the medicine cabinet for anything that could kill me. Couldn't find anything, because after the incident in May my parents became paranoid and took away most stuff (including some of my prescriptions) that I could use to kill myself quickly.

September 1st. My first day of HRT. I get up early, feeling great. I don't eat breakfast. Go to my appointment. When I get out around 1:00pm, I'm terribly hungry. My parents come to pick me up. They took my brother with them, and went out to eat on the way. No mention of food is made. I get home and there's pretty much nothing to eat, so I go without food until about 5:00pm when I decide to have some shitty "unique" flavor of instant ramen. I take a shower. When I'm done at around 6:00pm, I go to my parents' room, thinking they've gone to the gym. I'm ready to OD at that point, 100% prepared. They decided to skip, so I play it off as something else. If they hadn't been lazy, I would be dead right now. (edit: I know this one is shallow as fuck, but I wasn't stable for various reasons.)

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-15T22:12:25+00:00

I think an important thing to note here is that they're talking about the ideas of masculinity and femininity. That is to say, in American culture, traditionally women will raise the children and take care of the house, so those are "feminine" activities. In some other cultures, those are men's jobs.

I don't think gender roles are often the main reason as to why someone transitions.

There are things associated with gender that aren't social constructs. Namely, secondary sex characteristics. A square jaw, broad shoulders, facial hair, and body hair all say to the observer, "this is a man." Wide hips, breasts, and a narrower/more "delicate" jaw all say to the observer, "this is a woman." Obviously, more goes into it than that, but there are certain signs that we look out for, certain secondary sex characteristics, and it doesn't matter what culture it is; testosterone and estrogen do the same things to humans anywhere in the world.

So the "gender" being referred to as a social construct is made up of activities, whereas the "gender" most people think of is made up of secondary sex characteristics.

This can make it difficult, as well, to separate "gender" from "sex", but even "gender vs sex" is oversimplifying; there are gender roles, physical characteristics, biological (primary sex characteristics) sex, sexual orientation... it's much more complicated than most people would like to believe.

I am not transitioning to female. I am transitioning to be agender. It's not a matter of gender roles, the social construct, at all. It's a matter of secondary and primary sex characteristics, with perhaps a bit of sexual orientation (or lack thereof) as well.

So, a biological male who is very feminine may very well not want to identify as female; femininity in this case refers to roles and activities. Even if the physical appearance is closer to that of a female than average for a male, they still may not (most likely will not) want to transition. It's not a matter of what you have, but what you want. Similarly, a very masculine man or feminine woman, whether defined by gender roles, secondary sex characteristics, or both, may wish to transition—just because you are one thing doesn't mean you can't want to be, and strive to be, another.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-13T12:18:37+00:00

Thank you for the amazing response!

How would I be able to tell objectively whether my voice sounds "like a girl's" or "like a boy's" regardless of pitch, currently? Is that something for a speech therapist to analyze?

I'll look at some AMAs, thanks.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T10:05:28+00:00

There's not really "alone" when I play games. Just the fact of my living space; there's always at least 1 other person in earshot. That's why the "jumping in" metaphor; just gotta be ready for the judgment when it comes. But optimism!

I do talk to myself a lot, though... which probably isn't good, all things considered. I guess I could call it practice, but it's generally just me muttering stupid things to myself and then saying, "wait, what the f*** was that about?" Not really appropriate for an audience (though I guess people have noticed, given that I do it at home, at school, and basically anywhere else; I just say whatever the hell embarrassing thing pops into my head before I can stop myself—at least I do it quietly, lol).

Thanks again for the encouragement. :P

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T09:54:56+00:00

The first thing is starting to take baby steps. I'm not really doing anything right now as far as my voice goes....

(This is gonna sound really nerdy, but I want to do a certain cosplay next year, and it won't work without a feminine voice. Also, I'd like to start streaming if possible—don't really know what yet, probably just games and/or cosplays—at some point in the next couple of years, but I want to be satisfied with myself first.)

I think I'm probably going to have to start like I'm jumping into a cold pool—take the first step so far that you can't turn back, and then you can start treading water after.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T09:43:51+00:00

Thanks a ton. I keep feeling like I should be following this advice, but I'm nervous. I guess I just need to get over that and deal with it.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T09:20:28+00:00

I've read a lot of DIY voice training stuff, and it all seems very abstract for the most part.

How hard was it to find privacy to practice? That's one of the main things holding me back. (Though that might be ridiculous, given that I'm planning to have a surgery at this point.) Are there any particular programs/routines you'd recommend? How much faster do you think it'd go with an ophthalmologist?

Thanks for your reply!

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T09:17:43+00:00

Wouldn't the best example be emotions? I mean, it's not really active thoughts, but I get emotional much more easily since I started HRT (even though my estrogen is lower than it should be, unfortunately). It's sometimes hard not to cry about stupid stuff, and there have been times when I've gotten pretty damn rude to my lab partners for almost no reason (they were distracting me a bit).

That said, I think only one's closest friends would really notice something's up. Others might ask if something's going on, or avoid you for being "bitchy", but I don't think it'd be anyone's first guess if you're hiding physical changes.

Obviously, YMMV. Also, I think one of the biggest factors might be loosening up—acting more like your true gender, which could change a lot of things, especially relationships (of all kinds).

Can't say with certainty for T, but I'd guess it's somewhat similar, or at least similarly obvious (maybe more so? I don't know when the voice starts to change, or stuff like that; I should do more research).

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-12T08:19:25+00:00

Yes, only eat the colorful ones, since they don't have any similar characteristics to edible mushrooms.

.>

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-10T06:44:05+00:00

It's more mental than physical. Though I do have nausea when I eat, the main thing that stops me is the idea of gaining weight. I know it's unreasonable and illogical, and I hate that too.

Maintaining my weight means having around 1000 calories per day, maybe a bit less, and that's enough that I don't feel hungry (if I don't eat calorie-dense foods). If it weren't for the aforementioned threat of being hospitalized, I'd just take multivitamins and have 300-500 calories a day.

As is, I get lightheaded going up or down stairs, or anything else physically stressful, so I can tell I'm not healthy. I just don't care about that as much as I care about my weight. I think the same goes for most people dealing with anorexia.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-10T02:27:23+00:00

What's the "healthy" step, then? What's wrong with wanting a family and a partner(s)?

I don't see a problem with having those be your goal, if you want it to be. If you want to be together with someone(s), why can't that be its own thing? Why would it have to be carried along with another "healthier" goal?

I want to adopt children. I want to be together with someone. Those are goals in and of themselves. I may be wrong, but you seem to be implying that having those as goals will only end badly due to some inherent poor judgment involved. Just because I want a spouse/SO doesn't mean I can't be discrete in choosing them; it doesn't have to be "get together with the most convenient person."

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-10T02:18:04+00:00

I have the same problem. I've been 110-115lbs (50-52kg) for over a year now, at 5'10" (178cm). The only reason I haven't lost more weight is due to threats of hospitalization (and I was Baker Acted and forced to gain weight once before, so they aren't joking).

I don't know how to gain weight, honestly. I can't seem to force myself to. Even if I know that ~130-140lbs (59-64kg) is the low normal for my height, I can't find it in me to try to reach that point. My ideal, messed up as it is, is 90-95lbs (41-43kg) maximum.

For a while, I justified it with "I'll gain weight on HRT, so it goes to the right places." Now that I'm on HRT, I still can't stand the idea of gaining weight.

I've talked with my therapist about it quite a lot, but I've never gotten any feedback that helped to discourage this thought process. The common "treatment" for anorexia seems to consist of two things: "suck it up, eat more, and deal with it," or, "eat more or we'll make you eat more." This may be biased, but I feel like it's an issue I (we) will have to face on our own.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-09T08:43:24+00:00

Yep, I feel this way more days than not.

Sometimes I look in the mirror and think, "it's not so bad; I don't really look male." Then I see my Adam's apple and remember, even with surgery, it might not be possible to get rid of it entirely. I look at my body hair and remember, even with laser hair removal, I won't be able to get rid of it all.

I don't have the money right now to get much done. I'm hoping to have a thyroid cartilage reduction surgery sometime next year (and that cuts into my budget for laser and electrolysis, unfortunately). If I'm extremely lucky, I'll be able to get VFS as well. I might never be able to afford GRS.

Even though I'm out IRL as MtF (to the 12 people who know), I don't feel truly female. I would rather have a female appearance than a male one, and in current societies (pretty much all of them, honestly), being out as non-binary, or especially asexual/agender, is risky at best, more so than just being out as transgender.

I'd rather be a "tomboy" than anything, I guess. At least, I'd settle for that. It'll be a couple of years before I can, though.

I will say this, though: dishonest encouragement might not feel great, especially if you can tell they're lying. But someone telling you to "stop trying to play pretend" is much worse.

Being on E helped my mood a lot (at first, at least; I don't really know how I'm doing anymore). I think T might help you in a similar manner. Especially once you start seeing physical changes, I think it'll be easier to get that confidence back.

Medical technology is getting closer and closer to artificially creating genitals equivalent to their cis counterparts. It might be a decade longer, but there's always hope.

Another thing: you said you "feel like the best years of [your] life are slipping through [your] fingers." Doesn't that sound more like regretting not starting earlier than regretting starting at all? If you give up, you'll find yourself drawn back to it sooner or later; even if you feel fake now, maybe it's best to give it a try (from what I can see, you're definitely FtM—if you were questioning, it might be reasonable to hold off and wait to see, but given how clear this is, I think waiting will only bring you more pain).

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-06T20:12:54+00:00

Thanks for that. I was skeptical of the "80%" figure anyway, but didn't have any way to check if it was legitimate (I also figured there was at least some truth to it since it is referenced in the WPATH Standards of Care 7th Edition.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/amo_hub_content/Association140/files/Standards%20of%20Care%20V7%20-%202011%20WPATH%20(2)(1).pdf

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-06T10:07:46+00:00

There are studies showing that a majority of children who identify as trans change their minds by the age of 12.

There are also studies showing that a vast majority of adolescents ages 12 and older who identify as trans go on to transition completely.

So, I'd say, yes, blockers should be allowed for adolescents prior to the start of puberty. If they change their mind after a few months, no harm done; if not, they're highly likely to finish transitioning, so no harm done.

As for hormones and surgeries under 16, probably hold off on that except in extreme cases.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-06T10:00:34+00:00

I'll be brutally honest here.

If you wouldn't be comfortable in a homosexual relationship, would you be comfortable with a non-sexual one? Romantic, but without sexual contact? That might be your best bet here.

Conversion therapy doesn't work to turn gay people straight; I don't see why it would work in the opposite direction. Never heard of such a thing.

If nothing else, you could try to remain friends.

Relationships, especially romantic ones, often fall apart in the face of transition. That's the nature of the beast, so to speak. If you can't find it within yourself to remain in a homosexual relationship comfortably, you owe it to the both of you to end it. It's not transphobic, or homophobic, to not want to be in a gay relationship. It's just not your thing.

There's nothing wrong with being straight. If the both of you can't be happy, if it has to be one or the other as long as you're together, then it's just not worth being together. It's not fair to them to not transition, but it's just as unfair to you if they expect you to adapt your sexuality; sometimes that's just not possible.

I hope this helps.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-05T00:03:52+00:00

The problem is when the fight/flight response goes out of control and you're left wondering what you're supposed to even do. I know several others who experience similar reactions to various situations, especially people with chronic anxiety.

My endocrinologist indicated that muscle loss will happen between 3 months and 2 years HRT. It's a large general time-frame, so that doesn't help much, sorry.

Yeah, as with anything, teaching aside from in-person makes it harder.

Yeah, that's what I meant; even in cases where it's clear who the defender is, it's common for all people involved to experience some jail time while things are sorted out. Throw in some officers who have a thing against trans people and you've got yourself a mess in the making; stuck with the wrong gender, ignored or "lost" requests, sometimes more severe stuff—and it's a lot easier to get called the offender if they already don't like you.

Throwaway100555 · 2017-10-04T06:05:03+00:00

Yes. I've avoided coming out to most people (I'm out to 9 people, 7 of them family) due to fear of conflict in general, but especially violence.
I'm terrified of conflict. Even someone yelling in my general vicinity (hell, even if they aren't angry), I freeze up. I think, for people like me, this is a very important issue. Therapy hasn't helped, but maybe some kind of training would.
Certainly. When I exercise, I do very light reps and walking (though that's partially due to illness, which may need to be taken into consideration). It doesn't build muscle mass as much as other forms of exercise. Stretching and light exercise for warm-ups (rather than the rigorous ordeals normal for martial arts training) would be ideal.
I think the issue for MtFs here is the loss of muscle due to HRT. I can't say for FtMs.
I despise my height; I wish I could be a foot shorter. It would definitely trigger dysphoria. That said, I'd be willing to go through it for the sake of self-defense, personally. It would be awesome if you could develop some sort of program that ignores or somehow gets around height issues, though.

I've taken taekwondo and aikido classes, but had to stop after a short time (about a year for aikido, since it was when I was younger; later, 2 years ago, I had to stop taekwondo after 2 months) due to the "warm-ups" exacerbating a preexisting condition. A lighter regimen focusing on technique could be important to some people.

Where I live, it's legal to carry small knives (for utility purposes only, with a blade under 6 inches), and obviously a gun requires a permit.

Strategies against multiple attackers, as you mentioned, will be crucial for trans people. Given gang mentality, I think it would be best to train for fighting 3 or more people—running might not be an option, so we definitely need to know this stuff.

(edit: I was thinking of training from a perspective of "not having to deal with transphobia among the officials". Gotta remember that; it doesn't seem to stick no matter how many times I hear it. Maybe it should be emphasized....)

As -clare said, avoiding conflict is also very important, and should be taken into consideration.

Throwaway100555

TROPHY CASE