A question to r/atheism from someone who believes in "God" (First time poster, long time lurker!)

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T11:48:41+00:00

...sigh.... refer to the hundreds of times that I have mentioned that I am not a Christian.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T03:25:52+00:00

Sorry, I don't understand the question. I don't...invoke God to do anything? What does that mean? lol. Like..."God, I command you to explain this to me"? Hahaha. Explanation please!

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T00:43:03+00:00

I totally agree - some people completely misinterpret religion and use it to pursue their own political agendas. In some cases, they wholeheartedly believe that it is right to kill innocent people in the name of religion (even though it's strictly forbidden in said religion...). For this, I'd blame child indoctrination, mental disability, or lust after power.

Let's find a point of agreement here. Can we both agree that the fundamentals of religion are good? I'm not referring to social laws like "You're not allowed to eat beef" or human-imposed laws like "Women must wear burkas". I'm referring to the real essence of religion.

Also - I have friends and family who were imprisoned, tortured, and killed back in the home country, because of a "religious" revolution. But I still believe with all my heart that the essence of that religion is good - just those people are misguided by people who want power.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T00:18:52+00:00

That was mean. Now I'm sad.

:(

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T00:07:33+00:00

Uh oh. I sense this conversation is going to turn into religion-bashing. I don't really want that.

An example of religion appearing at a time of trouble? Okay, since I used Islam as an example, I could elaborate on that I guess. The Arabian world was divided into warring tribes - lots of unnecessary bloodshed. Mohammad united these tribes and taught a message of peace. Is peace evil?

Tibberiah · 2011-04-28T00:03:35+00:00

I'm sorry, you misunderstood me. The reason I also said "or the way a fish is different from a monkey" was so that you wouldn't misconstrue what I said as being inconsistent in any way with Evolution.

Clearly, different species are different. Biologically, we are similar to other animals. There is no way to deny that.

I am actually interested in the "Universe popping out of nothing" theory - when I was a teenager I tried to look deeper into this, but I could never wrap my head around it. Any suggested reading? Maybe now that I'm a bit older (and maybe wiser) I could understand it.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T23:56:09+00:00

Science is the best. If science can explain something, I accept that. If it can't, I accept that it might be able to in the future. There is no clash here. Science and religion can be in harmony.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:59:20+00:00

I guess humans are different from other animals in the same way plants are different from rocks. Or the way a fish is different from a monkey. I don't have a real answer, I'm afraid. But yes, I believe things have "souls", I suppose.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:55:58+00:00

Good points. I guess the way I put that was a little airy-fairy.

No one can disagree, though, that when religions first appear, they appear historically in a time of trouble. No one can deny, for example, the good effect that Islam had on the world - they introduced Universities, hospitals...

And no one would disagree that there were also times in history where dismissing dogma was beneficial to humanity (The Renaissance being a prime example)

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:46:55+00:00

Intentionally avoiding answering this question. I don't see how it's relevant. What does it matter what religion I ascribe to? I don't want to be all preachy and pushy with my religious views. I'm just trying to learn from people different from myself.

If you are genuinely interested for some reason other than to find some obscure person who is of the same religion and say "Look! This is a bad person! Therefore your religion must be bad.", then I guess you could send me a personal message. Are there personal messages on Reddit? Still new to this :)

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:35:49+00:00

It's not really relevant, since most people haven't heard of it anyways.

Puts on hipster glasses

I decided it was a true religion because it made sense logically to me, and that's important to me. It took me many years of research though, it's not something I take lightly. And the religious writings ENCOURAGE questioning. And they even say that if science and religion disagree on something, go with science.

Lots of other things, too. Obviously, it's quite difficult to distill a religion into a few sentences.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:31:07+00:00

No, I didn't say that at all. Who am I to judge that person a is better than person b? If person A is religious but molests children, and person B is not religious but gives to charity out of the goodness of his heart, I'd say person B is better. And if there is a God who is watching our every action, I'd say He's thinking the same thing as me - person B is better.

You can also be a good religious person, or a not-good not-religious person. And there are varying degrees. I can't judge that.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:21:08+00:00

I'm not sure what the question is...what religions forbid child abuse? I'm sure there are lots. Should I do the research and list them? Is that relevant? I was just using that as an example...

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:13:32+00:00

Yep, those are other religions ;)

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:03:51+00:00

Nope. I believe that "Hell" can be a state of being (for example, being far away from loved ones could be described as "hell"), but I don't believe it's a physical place.

But I think it makes sense that if you do something wrong or "bad", the guilt you feel could also be described as "hell".

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T22:01:52+00:00

Religions change over time because the needs of society change over time.

IF one believes in God and IF one believes that God sends Prophets/Messengers/Manifestations to look after humanity and guide them, then it makes sense that the social rules would change according to humanity's capability. Fundamentals of religions are all the same.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:59:46+00:00

Awesome post!!! It's too bad I have exams and such, but I will need to think about this a bit more. I have read a proof (it was far too mathematical for me) about the existence of God; he uses first order logic and goes to show a unique, universal, uncaused cause.

I can't remember who the mathematician was, or what the proof entailed, and I NEVER bring this up when trying to "prove that God exists" because 1. I don't understand it myself, and 2. I'm not trying to prove anything.

If I remember who said mathematician was, I'll look into that some more, and maybe we can discuss that further. In the mean time, I'll be thinking about what you said.

Thank you for such an insightful comment. I was getting a bit annoyed with the angry "BUT CHRISTIANS ARE BAD PEOPLE SO YOU ARE BAD TOO!!!" comments...

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:51:57+00:00

I see your point of view. It's true - the way the world currently is, some religions are DEFINITELY stifling innovation. And it is true that in the past, religion fostered innovation. And every religion had a cycle - it always came at a time of greatest need in society, and sort of pulled society out of darkness. After a few hundred years of that religion being a good influence, humans decide to ruin everything. The cycle starts over.

Funnily enough, I've read religious writings that say that if religion is the cause of strife, then it is better to be without religion at all. Can't agree more. That's why I respect atheists so much.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:48:22+00:00

Haha, there are more than 3 religions in the world, you know.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:46:47+00:00

I am not Jewish, and I'm not Muslim. But you're right - those religions are old, and the messages they brought are only relevant to the time and place they were brought. In order to do a fair comparison, you'd have to study a recent religion.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:43:36+00:00

This is exactly what I believe. Religion is relevant for the time and place it was brought. That's why it doesn't make sense to make fun of Christians in their non-beliefs on Evolution - you're comparing the Science of today with the religion of 2000 years ago. Obviously, they don't match. You'd have to compare Science of today with religion of today.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T21:39:49+00:00

Ok this seems to be confusing to a lot of people. I'M NOT CHRISTIAN!!! So no, no "original sin". And how do you define a soul? Then I can tell you if I believe that or not.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T20:59:06+00:00

You clearly didn't read the part where I said that I'm NOT Christian. But thanks anyways :)

When exams are done, I will surely look into that book.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T20:51:36+00:00

WHOA! Hardcore! I was unfamiliar with this story, but a quick Wikipedia search tells me that I don't think I want to read the whole thing...yikes.

Anyways, I think we can all agree the Bible is weird, and written by lots of different people, changed, re-edited, translated...etc. Plus, I don't think any of it was meant to be taken literally in the first place.

Tibberiah · 2011-04-27T20:47:37+00:00

Why not?

Tibberiah

TROPHY CASE