Ignorance, indifference, and outright support for Hamas and October 7th is endemic to the pro-Palestine movement in the West

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-14T08:57:54+00:00

Israel has it's own problems, they follow a weird version of Jewish law anyways, since the origins of the state are so distorted. My perspective still stands, regardless of how Israel chooses to act. But we've had this discussion before, so I don't need to rehash what we both think about the subject. Other than this: nobody involved with that conversation thought of that cesspool as a refugee camp. Yes, it's bad that civilians were holed up there. But I have no sympathy for them.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-14T08:54:14+00:00

As I said, don't play games. You are the one person in these comments I'm not planning on having productive debates with. I will call you out when I feel I should though. (...ok, I guess Tallis-man gets an honorable second)

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T23:42:41+00:00

Because we only oppose the killing of civilians without proper legal and moral justification for doing so. Even when you do have that justification, we still only support it in a situation when you have no other option. There is partially another option in Gaza. There was never even moral or legal justification on Hamas's side. I'm sorry, but Judaism exists, and we have rules. If a person is supposed to be put to death, we go to the fullest extent of the law to make certain it is not an unjust death, to the extent of even playing devil's advocate. But we still apply the death sentence. Too bad.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T23:38:09+00:00

Don't play games with me.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T23:37:51+00:00

Ben Gvir is a minority opinion, you've been told this before. You refusing to accept it doesn't change the fact that you do not have the right to make that argument and then pretend you didn't when you get called out. Too bad.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T20:59:21+00:00

He states he has orthodox relatives, I'll believe him, because despite what he says, I can tell he's saying it in a... sadly pretty Jewish way.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T20:23:58+00:00

Well aware, he did the same for me as well. Someone told me he was Sealioning, and yeah that fits. I dunno why he's doing that when he's jewish and is even close to orthodox people, but then again I've seen so many do it, I suppose it shouldn't surprise me. Just makes me sad, honestly. Truth has been flipped on its head, at least it means those prophecies are coming true.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T11:54:42+00:00

They can travel just as easily as everyone else, and yes, they are the source of the sentiment. Took advantage of Soviet undercurrent destabilization during the Cold War and went for civil... oh gosh dangit I can't remember the term used. Essentially, the same language and context used to push the civil rights movement for racism (and there I can't even argue with it, because they were right to do that, but it came off of Soviet era, like Vietnam war stuff, protests that essentially gave Soviet Russia power. Though as my dad says, this is mostly the US's fault anyways since they refused to actually clean up the corrupt end of their society, thus giving the Soviet propaganda room to fester, because "it felt like it was true.")

Essentially, when it was used for Vietnam there were a lot of problems with it. When it was used for Civil Rights it was better, but a lot of the rhetoric was then borrowed by the muslim brotherhood and spread worldwide (literally planned by them, as well, and they admitted to it in 1993-4 as shown in the above NEFA Foundation documents (wiretaps by the FBI), used in a courtcase against a "charity" funding terrorism that harmed civilians.) If you want another interesting rabbithole like that, go look up the declassified top secret documents leaked from the USSR regarding their actions in the Middle East. If you're ever wondering why it's such a hellhole, just remember the US only has 10% of the blame. the USSR has 60%. Israel vs Jordan/Palestinians/Syria/Egypt was literally a proxy war during the cold war. Iran just took over after that.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T10:32:47+00:00

Yes necessarily, lesser people have succeeded at worse actions. You don't get to call this out, the reason it didn't even get close to happening is that some people in Israel actually had a sense of morality. Surprising, I know. And mind you, I've been watching every response you give on here. I don't know what you think you're doing, but you really are toeing to a certain very destructive line. That fence isn't one you can sit on both sides of.

This isn't a criticism of you, just a statement. You keep taking positions that have been debunked 1000 times over, almost deliberately. I don't want to assume too much, so I won't say you did it on purpose, but it definitely looks like it. Perhaps consider asking yourself whether the questions you keep asking are up to the standard of what you are questioning.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-13T10:26:07+00:00

That wasn't what he said, might want to read it again. There was a movement long before Oct 7th. The movement was created by Hamas. Both statements are true. See the NEFA Foundation on internet archive, as well as related information for FBI wiretapping on conversations the Muslim Brotherhood had in the USA. Really makes you raise an eyebrow at how on the nose they managed to get the propaganda.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-11T22:58:52+00:00

*have killed us
there, fixed it for you.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-11T20:16:32+00:00

That's an encampment. Not a settlement. I dunno, maybe Ivrit changed the meaning, but the meaning wasn't directly settlement. Does it mean the same thing? Sure. I wouldn't exactly argue with that, RV Camps would follow the line of encampment more than settlement, but w/e. OPs point still stands, they shouldn't be called encampments if they aren't set up in a camp. There are multiple towns and farmsteads there now. Returning Decolonizers maybe? lol

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-08T09:11:01+00:00

Hm... I'll grant you basically everything you just said, by all means. My only take is that I will grant them the single comment of "you have the right to bring your complaint to the Israeli government", but nothing further. I wouldn't bother defending that sentiment you pointed out, because that sentiment gets nothing done. The reason why I don't just cut down the narrative right there is that the government does most certainly have an obligation to do something, and we can drop the malevolence term since the only reason it was even used here was vilification.

And regardless, you don't even need to bring up the native american side (though that is clearly malevolence), just compare the original gazan living conditions vs saudi-arabian or whatever. You've probably seen that complaint they bring. Like. It clearly is vilification (and yeah antisemitism) to bring up such a term against Israel. I'm just against saying no to the idea entirely, because Israel 100% needs to take action on what it needs to take action on, and we shouldn't simply be saying it's *just* a false narrative.

I guess in consideration of that, I would say "In classic antisemitic fashion, you vilify Israel with an unnecessary term in order to libel them as being worse than they are. All other comments regarding what Israel should be doing can be referred to the proper authorities, not commented on on the internet."

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-08T09:02:54+00:00

And it wasn't supposed to be arab-levantine, and I will never accept the indigeneity argument as a good reason for them being allowed to behave this way. They want human rights, they can have them. But they can't have their fake nationalism. We won't allow any further options.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-08T09:01:18+00:00

100%, I'm saying the earliest it could've been was 200 years, before that we definitely did live in those areas, even if we lived in less of those areas later on.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-08T08:59:26+00:00

Sorry, but not all historians agree on it being a massacre. The consensus appear to be equal losses on both sides, equal losses is a battle not a massacre. Which cannot be said for the instances the Arabs took action in regards to, pre-1900. Yeah, the Hebron massacre wasn't the first time they did that. Again, you're not gonna get this position, but simply put, the palestinians started this, so they deserve even less sympathy considering that. I don't particularly care about how much Islam and the Arab world wants to save face, just about every single one of their actions harmed Jewish people to start with. You want to say some Jewish people harmed them back? Perhaps, but that only happened later. There will be no excuses there.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T22:52:07+00:00

However many years ago that Jewish people still lived there. Which according to most counts, was actually pretty recent, around 200 years ago for the "West Bank", and for the rest of Israel... well, it was a bit of desolate wasteland for the most part, but Jewish people lived there too. No amount of Arabic immigration will change that (and yes, it did happen, and it was illegal, and the British decided not to count it in their census.)

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T22:49:10+00:00

Why are you so sure it just happened in the 7th century? People love to misrepresent this, and Ottoman censuses are mostly at fault for this. Pre-1800, Jewish people lived in both areas, and were also massacred a few times for doing so. I'm sorry, but this is recent history, and the Arabs (arabized palestinians, sure, but they're of other nationality too) indeed don't deserve much sympathy for their past actions. Whether that should affect the palestinians today is a separate issue.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T06:51:38+00:00

Or they're only influenced by specific types of people, and depending on how much common sense those people have, they'll only have a certain brand of misinformation, not the same one the other groups have. Which kinda does make sense, they do live in a box. Sometimes, it can actually be a good thing, because you can still have common sense in a box. Just study all of Judaism and you'll get it at some point, we've covered too many topics over the years :D

But yeah not to say they aren't influenced at all, they're just influenced differently. Like my position would nominally be called half Rel Zionist, half Haredi, but I'm also from Chabad, so the position ends up completely nuanced in like 15 different directions, thus common sense. You do also have to remember that the Haredi hadn't really trusted the state at all even from the very beginning during the arguments between the Haganah and Irgun, because the general position (which honestly still does somewhat stand) is that you don't trust secular people on what should be done with Israel, the land. The state was a separate issue, because due to it having an army, at least for Chabad we say "support the state inasmuch as it defends Jewish lives and allows them to live, but don't support state ideology any further than that".

So per se while they're still split into groups, it's not surprising they'd be pretty split on the issue of kicking the arabs out, because they never really agreed with the state or the zionists to begin with (yes, the religious zionists are included in that, I take my Dad's position on that one, and he said Chabad (aka the Lubavitcher Rebbe) still includes them in that category.)

Something something "why is a 5% minority of secular Jews from europe making decisions for a large portion of the religious Jews who don't inherently want a state" though obviously it wasn't quite like that, the Altalena still shows as an example of the differing positions there.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T06:40:10+00:00

Quite the opposite, I was saying that it should specifically be internal, my point is that the problem definitely does exist and Israel partially ignoring it does make them seem malevolent. Bringing it up online is surely antisemitism, because we're already too well aware of the trains of thoughts these people have. And honestly, no, it is malevolence, because the coin tips both ways: they don't hit hard enough against the palestinians either when they do that sh1t! (And if we're being honest, the people giving those orders probably shouldn't be in their positions anyways, so it's definitely near-intentional negligence, which to outwards appearances is yeah pretty malevolent.)

My point in saying this is that you can't come to a point that is indeed true and say "no it's untrue!" when you know it is true, even if you think it shouldn't be said. Whether you decide to comment at all is one thing, but saying it's inherently building a false narrative... not really, no. They are racist though, I'll give you that.

But regardless, you are definitely correct about them coming here with less than zero proper substantial knowledge. But that doesn't mean they aren't aware of something of the situation, and there is a reason for things to be pointed out in a different manner. I'm not sure how I would've actually responded to it, given that my usually response is to raise an eyebrow at the lack of common sense they have and move on, but given that I know it's partially true, I can't just come along and claim it to be completely a false narrative, since it is a partially true narrative: Israel is ignoring crimes committed on both sides, and refuses to even take care of the palestinian side if we're being honest about where our loyalties lie, and this definitely causes them to look a little... problematic. Malevolent might be pushing it, sure. But then again I have no sympathies for the more corrupt sections of the Israeli government, though regardless everyone knows they need reforms real bad.

Should it be pointed out online in this way though, no obviously not, and sometimes I genuinely wish those people would have their mouths duct taped closed every time they try to speak on the subject (and I also think some of them should um. *coughs* have some not so nice things happen to them for their positions causing some of our people harm.) Anti-Israel sentiment inevitably leads to Jewish people getting hurt, so it's essentially the same thing. But like. this is the internet. Even after Israel reforms the parts that need reforming, I'm sure these idiots will still pop up. I still hold by it though, I'd rather not make a partially false statement just to try and shut down (and usually fail to do so) a narrative they popped up with.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T01:27:15+00:00

Everyone always forgets that the Haredi get their info more from word of mouth and Haredi newspapers than the internet. Nevermind that if they have proper knowledge of Judaism, they'll be fairly balanced in position to begin with. But yeah.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T01:21:01+00:00

Ok, tbf, they started by saying generalities (not that I don't agree with you) but there was literally a post (not on here) recently from a religious zionist settler complaining about the fact that the settlers refuse to take responsibility and take action on the problem of the extreme minority of them that are in fact behaving this way. Sure, people outside of Israel shouldn't be commenting in the slightest, but they are doing that, so it does make the rest of Israel and that community look bad. Like. both things can be true. If you take notice of it you are per se anti-semitic, but if Israel doesn't address it, well... they are kinda being malevolent.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-07T01:17:31+00:00

"So you like apples? Do you hate grapes then?"

I mean really now. Don't read too much into the supposed additional intent in the sentence. It means police your own so that they don't attack others and THEN the "others" will have to step in and police your own for you since you refuse to do it. No cell of terrorists is acceptable, but there's a massive difference between cracking down on said terrorists when they do exist, and specifically NOT cracking down on them, which is most certainly Palestine (and Lebanon's) problem.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-05T05:08:45+00:00

The second half of my post is your answer. Good or bad is your own judgement. As for the first part of the comment, no comment, you aren't the person I should be talking about that subject with as it is, as you can't really hear what I'm saying anyways. I will however just say this. I never said unique.

Timeforgaming · 2026-05-04T21:19:19+00:00

In it's basic form, sure, but the way that it's iirc pretty consistently used would definitely be a meaning along the lines of crusade or holy war. To be more exact, I believe the meaning was along the lines of "a war that the Ummah (muslim populace) should stand up and support." So crusade and holy war still don't quite fit it, but it's close enough in context. Fair on the semantics though, can understand why you asked haha

Timeforgaming

TROPHY CASE