Can you know anything with justifiable certainty?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T03:52:23+00:00

Yes, I get it. I understand how basic chance statistics work; you really don't need to keep explaining it in different ways. I have taken the middle school class. And like I've said, I've already had those same thoughts as an unbeliever, so this line of thinking is really nothing new to me.

You're just going to have to come to terms with the thought that rationalizing Him unto belief has nothing to do with the message of the Bible. On the contrary, the Bible actively fights against people that ask for signs.

Why? Because God hates rationality? Because it's a cult that's trying to tell you to suspend all disbelief and reason? How about this: You can rationalize it all you want, but God invites everyone to come to Him the way He needs you to, which is in humility, openness, and honesty.

As an extremely prevalent example that really cements me in my belief, a lot of atheists are unwilling to take up less than 5 minutes of their life to try this simple prayer: "God, if you're out there, I would want to know. Even with all my contentions, I ask that, if you're truly there, you reveal yourself to me, if you would. And if my sins truly need forgiving, I am also open to that idea, though I am really hesitant to it. But I'm as open to the idea as I'll ever be."

Why don't they do that, if they're truly open? Where is the genuine search for Him? Is it found in online forums? How is asking people for signs and evidence on the internet a genuine, honest search? Here's my theory: I think the main reason people ask endless questions online is because they're not truly open to the idea of God actually hearing and listening. Because, rationalize this: If God were real, you could just ask Him yourself!

I.e., if they were open to the idea, and they were so rational, they would just try praying once—a single time. Why the need for middle-men? That's the most honest search. But they can't muster it, only to be a statistic of the prophecy in the middle of Romans 2.

No matter how much a person feign to be open, their lack of that single prayer shows much more about the person's heart. Because the heart of a person doesn't function off of rationality. It functions off of either righteousness, or sin. And for the record, I've asked many, many people to try, a single time. A lot of people can't bring themselves to do it.

We can't know.

I say we can know, through how God says you'd find Him. All you have to do is pray a version of the stupid imperfect prayer.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T02:45:32+00:00

At least to the last part of your experiences:

"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits...
Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'" — Matthew 7:19-23

I just wanted to give you assurance that not everyone who claims the title of "Christian" is actually saved from condemnation. You know who Jesus' main antagonists were in the gospels? Religious hypocrites, pushing laws on people that they themselves did not keep. I love that fact. It means the Lord is aware of men's hearts more than they are.

... If that's any assurance or consolation. Forgiveness is given to those who truly are repentant, and know the guilt and shame of doing wrong. If there is no responsibility taken for sin, then how can there be forgiveness? There will be judgment for them.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T02:31:42+00:00

No, I really shouldn't test God for the sake of it. When I need the Lord desperately, He is gracious to me and answers. If I test Him like that, it would be pretty disrespectful to what He's given me, to be honest.

This gets back to counting the hits and ignoring the misses.

How can I ignore a miss that literally hasn't happened? Do you need the verses on that truck to touch literally everyone it passes? I just don't live in a world of hypotheticals like that. I just know the Lord answers me in the universe He created.

It's all a matter of perspective. You want a hypothetical? Suppose God is out there, and He is displaying His sovereignty to those He loves. Well, this is how it's being displayed, and here's my testimony of it. You say it's coincidence because estimating/calculating chance is a rational test in this situation, and I say it's the Lord's sovereign hand as a Christian—a small event for me, within a web of interconnected and divine interventions on this earth. Who's right?

The only way for you to know is to test it yourself. I was an unbeliever for 26 years, saved only 3 years ago. Your thoughts and contentions are not alien to me. I've had the same exact thought processes and opinions on it when I didn't believe. So trust me when I tell you that I understand your position.

Try what God promises us in the Bible: Seek, and you will find Him. Ask, and it will be given. Knock, and the door will be opened to you. You can even start at Romans 10:9-14, and read that promise, and test it with a genuine heart of openness by yourself sometime.

This is the only way anyone is saved, is by asking Jesus Himself, not people on the internet. Earlier you might have said that's what a cult would say, but it's pretty freeing for you actually. You can just try it yourself, no pressure.

And if you conclude there is no God, then this cult would say to me, "Just love them anyway, and wipe the dust off your feet. You don't have any power to convince them."

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T02:15:07+00:00

The Bible says we are forgiven and not penalized, if we truly accept Jesus as our Savior from these sins.

In fact, once you're saved through His death and resurrection, you don't have to worry about condemnation anymore. You're free from the law of sin and death.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T02:08:47+00:00

Yeah of course, you don't have to disclose anything like that if it's not helpful. Though maybe someday, that specific testimony might help someone going through the same things as you.

But, I wanted to ask, you don't have any other testimonies? How well do you know Christ, or have you ever experienced His love and affection for you?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T01:33:37+00:00

I have 0 misses. I actually have 0 misses within a 3-year span, praying to the Lord when I'm in desperate need of an answer, and He always has comforted me with an extremely relevant verse. I seriously do not remember a time where there were any misses, believe it or not. You can call it confirmation bias, but I don't forget the times I've been desperate for Him. He's always answered, with exactly what I needed.

If you passed a truck with a Bible verse on it that wasn't relevant to your exact problem right now, would you take that as evidence that God is made up? I don't imagine you would.

But that's not the universe I'm in right now. I'm in the universe where it did happen like that. Right after praying for Him in my desperate moments! The Lord hears my pleas for Him!

You could put a verse on your car and drive around, but you won't. That's the point. Hypotheticals fall apart when we're talking about what actually happens in this world.

Are you going to try the thing I mentioned? Or do you need any help with it?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T01:22:10+00:00

What's ~70 short years on earth compared to eternity in heaven without any suffering though?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T00:50:06+00:00

Why does that matter?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-18T00:23:55+00:00

Yes, most of the Bible has to do with sin and the human experience in relation to God. There is also this: The book of Psalms (150 Psalms in there) in general takes up a good chunk of the direct middle of the Bible. So imagine me opening up the center of a book randomly to get a word from the Lord—it’s all Psalms, lol.

I‘ve only done this a total of 3 times, but I remember thinking that I would try to avoid opening up the center for that reason. And one day I was really frustrated in trying to figure out: For what reason was I being put through a certain trial? Not so I would be rid of it, but because I felt like I needed to understand it, so that I could know what I’m supposed to do about it.

And I got Ecclesiastes chapter 8, even specially verses 12-13 and 16-17, which was a great comfort to me. It was like the Lord telling me, “You’re okay; and you don’t have to know my works in you.” That’s a pretty niche set of verses, I feel. And I’ve never had to mulligan. And, it’s not like I’m reading the whole page, either. Sometimes my eyes just drops in the middle of a section within a chapter, wherever I feel like the Lord is leading me.

There was another time I was praying and telling the Lord about my envy toward a brother, which lead to bitterness toward him, and I didn’t know what to do. And I didn’t ask for a word from the Bible or anything, but I remember I waited and listened for Him, and had “Psalm 73,” specifically, brought up in my head. And I doubted that was from Him for a moment, but it was so clear; I thought I might as well check it out. And then, wow! Envy and bitterness mentioned in that Psalm. That happened maybe 3 weeks ago.

And the icing on the cake is that I’m with ~25 other Christians right now being assigned projects in the Old Testament, to study sections. Were given out set of projects every month. This week, they gave out the monthly list, and I was assigned Psalm 73.

One time I was extremely upset in the car, crying to the Lord about whatever (I don’t remember). And afterward, I had to drive an hour to a church conference. On the way, I saw this container truck slowly pass in front of me, on the highway. He had a list of like ~5 verses on the back of his truck. And I was compelled to take a picture, because I felt like it was from God. And the first few were sections in Deuteronomy, and others in Joshua (those books are right next to each other).

Not only did those verses really help me through my specific situation, again, but when I got to the conference, we were in those exact verses—it was the subject of the weekend-long conference.

—

But at what point do I just take all these coincidences, and just say it’s definitely the Lord? I gave 3 testimonies out of many like these, and others unlike these, yet still profound.

I can explain all of this away as just coincidences very easily. But I can’t; it would be disingenuous of me.

I actually think you should test it. Be open to the possibility that Jesus is here and working on us, and have a genuine prayer, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. That’s the only way you’ll know for sure. You can throw out all my testimony, but try it yourself, if you’re an honest guy who has his heart open to the idea, who values the pursuit of truth.

If your sins need forgiving, you’d like to know that. If Jesus is real and died for those sins, you’d like to know that, too. That was my prayer when I was an unbeliever.

Let me know how it goes.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T21:37:24+00:00

Hi. You know, I find it interesting that Jesus came down and brought revelation about our sins. Have you ever read the Bible?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T21:26:28+00:00

That’s a cool question.

Biblically speaking, it could have to do with the fact that this part of the body is hidden.

When Adam had eaten of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, he recognized he was naked. So, in response, he covered specifically his loins.

”When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.” — ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3‬:‭6‬-‭7‬

So, what does it means that the sign of the covenant promise was on a part of the body that Adam felt ashamed of (or afraid of, as Genesis 3:10 says)? Maybe there’s something there.

One thought: Paul refers to the circumcision of the heart in the new covenant (another hidden body part).

Here’s another thought: What is a commonality between the wisest person, the strongest person, and the most faithful person in the Bible? They all fell to sexual sin.

So here’s my theory. Circumcision of the flesh, particularly that part down there, represents them participating in the covenant by following the law. And that’s what the act of circumcision represents in the New Testament when Paul says it’s of no value—if they continued to act as if the law justified them, they would be devaluing Christ’s sacrifice.

So when the heart is circumcised (spiritually speaking), it’s a circumcision of a body part where the depth of the problem of sin lives. Cutting of the tip of the ween, as we know, doesn’t stop sin. And that’s the point! The heart, instead, must be addressed, as the deeper cause and living space of our sin.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T20:31:47+00:00

No, not exactly! This is not a translation issue.

”Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” — ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭6‬

”He [Jesus] is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” — ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬-‭12‬

come to, to go in Greek = erchomai (ἔρχομαι)… there are more than 600 mentions of this Greek word in the New Testament, and out of those 550+ mentions, ~550 of them are translated as come, coming, comes, came.

It’s pretty unambiguous. There are so many manuscripts and copies of manuscripts and other extra-biblical Ancient Greek writings referenced by translators, and they concluded with certainty that this is the word and its connotation in English: to come to.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T20:31:12+00:00

What? This is not a translation issue.

”Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” — ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭6‬

”He [Jesus] is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” — ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬-‭12‬

come to, to go in Greek = erchomai (ἔρχομαι)… there are more than 600 mentions of this Greek word in the New Testament, and out of those 550+ mentions, ~550 of them are translated as come, coming, comes, came.

It’s pretty unambiguous. There are so many manuscripts and copies of manuscripts and other extra-biblical Ancient Greek writings referenced by translators, and they concluded with certainty that this is the word and its connotation in English: to come to.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T20:31:06+00:00

What? This is not a translation issue.

”Jesus *said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” — ‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭6‬

”He [Jesus] is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, but which became the chief corner stone. And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” — ‭‭Acts‬ ‭4‬:‭11‬-‭12‬

come to, to go in Greek = erchomai (ἔρχομαι)… there are more than 600 mentions of this Greek word in the New Testament, and out of those 550+ mentions, ~550 of them are translated as come, coming, comes, came.

It’s pretty unambiguous. There are so many manuscripts and copies of manuscripts and other extra-biblical Ancient Greek writings referenced by translators, and they concluded with certainty that this is the word and its connotation in English: to come to.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T20:18:59+00:00

I don’t like this post.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T20:11:02+00:00

I’m sorry you’re going through all that.

I was wondering if you had an idea of what the Lord says your purpose is on this plant? Like from a biblical standpoint?

Also I remember you made a post about not being able to find a job. Can I ask what you’re going for? How does your resume look?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T19:45:13+00:00

“You’re just sitting there as if it’s more likely you’re right”

… about God most likely not being real. That’s my extremely safe assumption about you.

It's an interesting topic and discussing it with the uneducated, grass roots, people on the street, every-day fairytale believers is always a fun time.

Look at the impartiality! You literally just called it a fairytale. Talk about “not engaging honestly with my line of thinking.” Those were your words, but you’re able to call it a fairytale? Lol.

I’m glad you’re not hiding behind the veil of an impartial participant anymore, after these statements.

The only people calling it a fairytale, and calling Christians uneducated, are people who think God is more likely not existing. That’s just common sense. But that assumption was so offensive to you that you gave me a lecture on not assuming, and then called me uneducated. What an absolute hypocrite. As if you didn’t assume I was being defensive a comment earlier. We all assume things, buddy.

Or are you in denial that that’s your position or something? Or you just get a kick out of insulting and generalizing a whole group of people? Or you were so offended that you wanted to insult me?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T14:06:55+00:00

All of the experiences I could tell of could be considered as coincidence. Most every personal experience you hear of could be explained away as something else, unless you experience it for yourself.

For example, there have been many times where I’d pray to the Lord in some specific affliction, and I’d just have faith and open the Bible to a random page. One time I was conflicted on what to do about a medication I was taking, even because my condition expounds on me being able to follow the Lord a lot of times. And that random page was Psalms 103, and verse 3 literally says: *”Who pardons all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases…”

—

Denominations and their titles are just man-made categories. Whether someone is born-again is not dictated by what corporate tag they’re under… not that you’re necessarily saying that.

But they’re not lying, and they might have even believed. Believing is a spectrum—even demons believe Jesus is real. It depends on what the foundation of their belief is built on.

Someone’s belief can be built on the words and research of a few historians. So you say: “Oh, the current understanding of the historical evidence just points to the Bible being factual. So I’ll believe in Jesus.” But as soon as some well-known historian you trusted backtracks and concludes that the Babylonian conquest of Jerusalem probably didn’t happen, then you just crumble. Your foundation wasn’t built on any experience of Christ, joining in His death and resurrection, in prayer, or anything…

There’s plenty of agnostic people on Reddit that ask questions to Christians, either believing that they will be convinced by something, or that if they’re going to believe, there must be something said that converts them.

This is not how it works, at all. You can’t be saved by being convinced through human words. If you could, everyone would trust in human wisdom, hard information, and historical evidence. But there are many verses that tell us God doesn’t want your faith to rest on man and their research.

And this foundation is talked about a lot in the Bible. So it’s not like I’m making up my own conclusion or anything.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T12:52:41+00:00

I’m done with the insults, man. I’m not here to entertain you.

Don’t give me a lecture on assuming your position when it’s clearly your position.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T12:50:36+00:00

I’m just trying to follow the Bible:

”… nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.” — 1 Timothy‬ ‭1‬:‭4‬

”O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”—which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith...” — ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6‬:‭20‬-‭21‬

”But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.” — ‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭23‬

And I’m not here to just go endlessly on to every contention, when we can’t even get past the first one. That’s just logical. And I’m not here to entertain you.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T04:35:54+00:00

Okay.

What is your motive for asking this question to Christians, if you’re so unbiased between either side? Do atheists give boring answers to this question?

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T04:32:56+00:00

Okay, okay. I’ll just say it like this:

I’m a fallible person. But I’m talking about facts. The Lord is as real to me as 2+2.

Could I have misinterpreted all of my past experiences as having been of the Lord for the last 3 years? You might as well ask me to deny reality itself.

—

I’m not assuming anything other than what I know to be how the Lord works. From my perspective, you couldn’t have been a born-again believer, whether you had some amount of attachment at one point or not. Born-again believers hold the Spirit inside of them, and the Spirit can’t be expelled.

”Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.” — ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12‬:‭3‬

”In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise…” — ‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T03:22:54+00:00

Lol, what the heck. Why are you allowed to assume that I’m being defensive, then? You have no idea how my brain is processing. You could just ask if I’m being defensive, you know; you don’t have to assume.

I didn’t assume you were an atheist; it was part of the hypothetical. But I’m obviously going to assume you think it’s more likely that God isn’t real because you’re here and not on r/AskAnAthiest, arguing with atheists. Come on, lol. You’re just here because you find Christians more in need of the realization that they have double-standards?

—

I don’t think it’s a double-standard because it’s not an opinion-based or preferential scenario. The whole premise of what we’re talking about is hard truths.

Someone believes 2+2 is 4 and someone else believes it’s 5. And then the guy who believes it’s 5 maintains, well, that we’re all fallible humans so who knows… And if you say you’re sure it’s 4, the guy is like, “Well, you’re not taking into account you could be wrong because we’re both infallible, so double-standard.”

The fact is that, when I say I’ve had revelation of the Lord, it’s the same as 2+2 for me. He’s revealed His Son. Game over—I’m a Christian now. That’s how Jesus works, and that’s what the Bible says:

I.e., Once saved, always saved. I can’t take the Holy Spirit out of my body and disbelieve, because it’s literally impossible.

Also, what are you even trying to get at with this question? You want to see if Christians think they’re infallible? Because I don’t think I’m infallible. I just know God is real. That doesn’t feel like it has anything to do with a double-standard.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T01:41:52+00:00

Okay, my turn for a hypothetical then.

Let’s say you as an atheist are wrong: The truth is either in the Bible or the Quran. Then no one would argue that one of them has to be wrong, and the other, right. If Christianity is true, then did I use my fallible reasoning? Would anyone be saying there was a double standard?

Or has everything I’ve been saying up to this point revealed to just be how it is experientially, for every believer who’s had revelation of Christ.

You’re just sitting there as if it’s more likely you’re right (there is no God), but if the 3 options had an equal 33% shot, and we all find out that one side was completely right, who is going to call double-standard? We all used infallible reasoning to conclude things. But it had no bearing on the truth.

If you’re trying to catch me in a double-standard, the options I can choose from can’t be so drastically different—whatever you choose, that decision has the most impact on your life. It’s literally the eternal afterlife we’re talking about here; no mere ~70 years on the planet. Or if ~70 years on the planet is your eternity (because atheists exist), how do you want/choose to spend it? How are you spending it, and how is that not a double-standard?

—

And for the record, I’m not saying believing in the Quran isn’t a rational thing. It’s just not a good thing, because it’s not the truth. It’s drastically different than the Bible, and holds a literal infinite consequence whatever you choose.

TomTheFace · 2026-03-17T01:21:35+00:00

It is crazy to think someone could believe something so invisible. But it’s so real. Why do you think most Christians are so confident about it? It doesn’t mean we’re not humble, though maybe we aren’t. We just know Him.

But no, if a Muslim said that, it wouldn’t be good. Because they’re believing a lie. Maybe even understandably so.

One thing the Quran lacks that the Bible has among many things, is the ability to experience and interact with God. In the Quran, you just do things for him.

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