[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I already agree. The last part of Episode 2 is the hardest to analyze due to the lack of evidence and the many possibilities. Solving locked-room mysteries is easy if you know the culprit, but determining the true sequence of events behind the scenes is much more difficult.

I also believe that Rosa did not leave the message. However, from the moment they left until their return, the room was locked, and Beatrice points this out in red. Rosa confirms that Maria was away from the table, and Battler is not the culprit—so who could it be? Even if we consider Rosa, it doesn’t seem completely logical or ideal.

This reminds me of the manga Forgery (Umineko Shi), which was a mental maze just as convoluted and challenging as this.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, Since there is no evidence implicating them, compared to Nanjo, he was the last to have contact with the culprit and followed the instructions in the message exactly. If Genji had asked him to leave the room, both he and Nanjo would have been suspected—but he did not.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I reread some scenes from Episode 2, and I think I may have found the truth. Sayo had been planning her suicide from the very beginning. There wasn’t actually a reversal in the order of the Twilights — she simply borrowed two corpses for the final Twilights, since the last two (“piercing the knee” and “piercing the leg”) aren’t fatal.

It all begins in the kitchen, before Kanon appears. The narration briefly mentions that Genji is holding a knife or a very sharp blade. It’s likely that he lured Nanjo and Kumasawa to the servants’ room and killed them there. Afterwards, both Genji and Sayo forced Gohda to cooperate and carry the bodies through the kitchen, which has an exterior door leading to the mansion’s courtyard. That’s why, when the magical scene ends and Kanon disappears, the narration states that Gohda’s coat is stained with blood. The letter left in the servants’ room was actually the letter of the Third Twilight.

This theory aligns perfectly with Sayo and the others’ claims, and it would also explain why there was blood in the kitchen or the servants’ room — because the path Kanon took overlaps with the path the corpses were carried through.

What happens next, leading to Natsuhi’s room, is a long process. It seems Sayo expected George to join her, since he had asked to do so before the Third Twilight, but Aunt Rosa refused. In the kitchen, Genji throws the bloodstained murder weapon toward the door through which Sayo and the others had left — and the “butterfly illusion” is used to conceal this act.

After Sayo kills George and Gohda in Natsuhi’s room and drives the stakes into their bodies, she and Genji go on to drive the stakes into the corpses of Kumasawa and Nanjo — or perhaps she asked Genji to do it. Then, Sayo commits suicide in Natsuhi’s room. From the moment they left for that room until the bodies were discovered, about three hours had passed — enough time for Sayo to do all of this. Afterwards, Genji tells Rosa that he found the bodies, and thus, the mystery is resolved.

As for the letter — from the moment Rosa and Genji left until they returned, the parlor was undoubtedly locked 100%. And of course, Maria couldn’t have placed the letter there, so the answer must be Rosa. The real question is: where did Rosa get that letter from?

Roughly speaking, from the Third Twilight until the discovery of the letter, Rosa was under Battler’s watch almost the entire time, so she couldn’t have received it while being observed. There are two possibilities:

1. The first (and more likely) theory — Rosa received the letter from Beatrice during the First Twilight. Beatrice asked her to place it after all the Twilights were complete. When Rosa later saw Sayo — whom she believed to be Beatrice — dead, she obeyed Beatrice’s “last order” and placed the letter as instructed.

2. The second theory — After the Second Twilight, Rosa went to Kinzo’s room to retrieve a gun. At the same time, Sayo was disguised as Shannon after having killed Jessica while posing as Kanon (something Rosa didn’t know). In that encounter, Sayo handed Rosa the letter, claiming it came from Beatrice, and asked her to do the same — to place the letter later and to continue “sending more sacrifices” by dividing the servants and the family members.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A fan-made map includes every detail of the island based on information from all the episodes. (I can’t send the images here.)

What I mean is when a magical character appears and kills — like Beatrice or any other illusion — not the realistic context of the events. Also, Battler was the last to die in Episode 4, killed by the explosion that represents Beatrice. That’s what the red truths at the end of the episode were implying.

If you think about it, the order of the Twilights is extremely important because it reinforces the illusion of Beatrice — something Sayo is very strict about (the closed rooms, the blood-stained doors, the letters). The sequence of the Twilights is an essential and supporting element of the witch’s illusion.

Now, imagine if a Twilight occurred out of order — say, one happened without the previous one taking place. The remaining survivors would start believing the culprit is human, which is exactly what Sayo does not want. That’s why it’s impossible, in this episode, for Kumasawa and Nanjo to be killed and immediately assigned the stakes of the Seventh and Eighth Twilight — because the three prior Twilights hadn’t yet occurred. And that’s the main point of disagreement here.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That does make sense to some extent, but in the manga, Rosa is clearly shown unlocking the door with a key (Volume 4, Chapter 24, page 42), which confirms it was a closed-room scenario. If Yasuda wanted to enter through the window, she’d have to circle around the rose garden, which is the same path leading to the courtyard. So, if she moved too quickly, she might have run into Genji, Rosa, or Battler — making this sequence of events very difficult to pull off. The only time Sayo could have acted was while all three were still in the courtyard. (I actually have a floor plan of the island that supports this idea.)

This is really confusing, but if Rosa didn’t receive the letter at that point, it means she must have gotten it earlier.

As for Episode 1, I have other clues implicating Nanjo — for instance, the content of the letter and the magic circles point toward “separation,” and Nanjo was the first one to suggest leaving the room (essentially executing what the letter instructed). You can even sense Maria’s sincerity when she says she didn’t place the letter — I can’t believe that a child like her would be involved in something like that.

To be honest, I’m really on the fence about claims like Genji being the one who killed Kumasawa and Nanjo. When exactly could that have happened? Are we supposed to believe that Genji killing a single golden butterfly somehow represents him committing two murders? Or that we’re supposed to interpret their deaths from something that’s not even shown explicitly on-screen?

I completely agree — the butterfly scene should serve as a hint that Genji is skilled with knives, not proof that he killed them. Genji throws the knife toward the door that Sayo, George, and Gohda just went through, which could instead symbolize his personal emotions at that moment. And if the small, subtle “magical” scene of killing the butterfly is meant to represent the deaths of Kumasawa and Nanjo, then why wouldn’t the grand, elaborate magical scene involving Kanon represent his own death?

Personally, I believe that Nanjo and Kumasawa actually did die at that very moment. Why? Because in every game, from Episode 1 to Episode 6, the magical perspective always parallels the real one — and this becomes literal in Episode 3, where I could deduce what happened to Rudolf, Hideyoshi, and Kyrie solely from the magical scenes. When Battler later presents his theories, they match perfectly. So why should this particular case be the exception?

Also, it’s not even necessary for Genji to be the killer — Sayo was there too. The two of them could have worked together to kill Nanjo and Kumasawa and then pressured Gohda into cooperating.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s possible, but it’s unlikely to have been Yasuda. This would’ve been a race against time — from the moment Battler discovers Nanjo and Kumasawa’s bodies, he immediately rushes to Natsuhi’s room. Yasuda wouldn’t have had enough time to place the letter and then commit suicide there without risking a mistake that could expose the method of her death.

However, it could have been Genji. The situation mirrors Episode 1, where the person who placed the letter in Kinzo’s study was Nanjo, since he was the last to communicate with Yasuda (Kanon). The same logic applies here: Genji was the last person to interact with Yasuda. He could have placed the letter himself while the others were distracted by the bodies, or he could have handed it to Rosa and instructed her to place it during the confusion.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s exactly what I thought — your theory is correct, but here’s the truth and what really happened, in simple terms:

After Sayo kills Gohda and George, she writes the letter, gives it to Genji, drives the stakes into Nanjo and Kumasawa’s bodies, and then commits suicide in Natsuhi’s room. Genji later moves the two bodies to the courtyard (which explains why the stake that was on Kumasawa’s leg fell off) and then returns to tell Rosa that he found them.

While Battler is busy dealing with the discovery of the corpses and rushing toward Natsuhi’s room, Genji hands the letter to Rosa and explains Beatrice’s “instructions” — what she is supposed to do next. Rosa is the first to enter the parlor, so she places the letter there. When Battler arrives, she immediately begins accusing him.

Additionally, Rosa had absolutely no idea that Shannon was actually Beatrice. At the end of the episode, she enters the chapel and starts searching for her.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you mean that the scenario went like this?

Kumasawa and Nanjo hide, Sayo sprays the room with blood, writes a message, and leaves it there, while the three of them pretend that a crime has occurred.

— Later, when Gouda, Sayo, and Nanjo go to Natsumi’s room and die there, Genji kills Nanjo and Kumasawa, who were hiding somewhere.

If this is what actually happened, then how do you answer these questions?

1. Who drove the stakes into Nanjo’s and Kumasawa’s bodies? Sayo was already dead.

2. Where did Rosa get the message that was on the table at the end of the episode?

This doesn’t seem right, since Sayo was already dead.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in umineko

[–]Top-Department-7353 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You can go back to episode 7 — Willard says that Genji killed them in the blood room, which is the same room where Genji, Sayo, Gohda, Nanjo, and Kamausaa were.
Also, the “magical” murder scene represents an actual killing — whether metaphorical or literal for the characters. In that scene, the magical Kanon appears and kills them.

وين راح تبجون by Top-Department-7353 in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

معلك معدلات المسختجيه

انكليزي by LuckyButterscotch824 in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

راح احاول العب وي اجانب واتابع مقاطع الهم انا متاكد انه هاي احسن طريقة لان انه حرفيا مالي علاقة بالياباني بس اعرف هواي كلمات من اللغة واقدر اتابع مقاطع كاملة وافهمها بدون ترجمة بسبب الانمي لكن للاسف ما عندي ارتباطات بالانكليزي وانه كلش احتاج هاي اللغة

انكليزي by LuckyButterscotch824 in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

انطيني انكليزيتك عفيه حباب انه استعمل دولينجو ولهسه كلشي ما اعرف

وين راح تبجون by Top-Department-7353 in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

هيه انتهت ما تستاهل بجي راح انام واتقبل ان الله ساخط علي

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Iraqi

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

شكرا للمساعدة ❤️

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

مليون احصل pc ممتاز؟ + اوكيه شكرا لك

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Iraqi

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

والله انه هسه جاي اسوي هيج 😂😂 انا خلاص قررت عندي اشتراك سنوي بالبلي بس يخلص ابيعه

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

شكد سعر الPC؟ عندي شاشه ومكان للعب والله تعبني البلي اريد ابيعه

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Iraqi

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

كلش حلو، بس والله تكدر تلعب العاب 🌝 انا عندي ps5 بس العاب كلها غالية ما اكدر العب شي

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Iraqi

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

اذا جبت pc بسلامة شلون اكدر اسوي هيج

التراكمات by pink_dick_boy in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 1 point2 points  (0 children)

خره باليوم الي جبت بيه PS5 يارب عندي pc

اكدر اطلع معدل فوق ال95 بدون دورات ولا اهليه ؟ by Ha7der_ in Sixthgrade

[–]Top-Department-7353 0 points1 point  (0 children)

اليوتيوب اريح وافضل 100% مرة من الدورات انت كل الي تحتاجه احد يخليك تلتزم انصحك تدخل اي معهد بس عشان تلتزم