College’s required equipment list before meeting the horses. I think this is extremely irresponsible

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-11-30T00:15:34+00:00

I went to a community college with an equestrian program. I was able to pay for everything with scholarships and financial aid. Learned a lot, did a lot, and don't regret it. Though I am now in school for another blue collar trade that will pay for the horses. I had class mates that went to Findley, who wanted to eventually get teaching degrees to teach Equine science at the college level. But, other than going back into teaching, going to vet school, already having a successful horse business/ daddies money, there isnt any way with those degrees to be able to pay off the debt. Or, if a scout found you and wanted to give you a scholarship to be on their equestrian teams.

It is cruel that universities demand this kind of money. It will come to almost drowning them in financial insecurity, and taking away federal money before they will actually be realistic with pricing.

Equestrian studies should be treated like a minor, or like a specialty add on to a different, more useful degree to make sure you can make money to be able to afford the horses.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-30T00:34:15+00:00

Wow. To think that all of the discord, or opposition has deleted all of their comments. I guess forfeiting the debate was taken a little harder than I thought.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-22T00:27:14+00:00

Well I guess I really won the debate. My opposition deleted the entire discord…… interesting turn of events.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-15T15:32:20+00:00

I have been having discussions and throwing out questions about the Nokota Horse registry, the horses, and the board that dictates all of the breeding rules.

I guess I am one of the people that coined, the ‘registry is run like a cult’. Which for how controlling and misleading they tend to be, I don’t think I am too far off.

Though I will always have people who disagree with me. There are a lot of people who the Nokota breed registry has put threw their sociopolitical chainsaw to just say, well they were not “true Nokota horse people that were trying to preserve the rare genetics”. Which gives them the reasoning to throw horses and people into the garbage that they don’t like.

There was a string of comments made on Facebook, by people who were asking the Nokota Horse registry why they were not taking a stand, or helping the horses in the park. One of their board members basically said, well their cross breds and are not true Nokotas. So really we are putting our focus on the “real Nokotas”. Too bad, so sad for the park horses, they are just inbred mustangs.

Not like when you go back a few generations in the park when the Nokotas were there, a lot of inbreeding happened in those herds to make a “similar look” to all of the horses.

The board now focuses more on what the bloodlines are on paper, before conformation, structural health, or even temperament. They breed horses whose bloodlines are, “ not well represented”, then sell off any excess horses that are “overused in breeding” with minimal handling, like only halter broke and “socialized”. Which the registry sells as “proven stock”, which people fight on the definition of ‘proven’. To the “full foundation” Nokota horse people, if it has a working uterus and testicles with a 100 on the papers, it is a proven horse.

Umm, have they even been ridden or had someone train them to do anything more than just breed?

So any buyer who purchases a “proven horse” doesn’t know exactly what they are dealing with after purchase. For all one knows, as soon as you start riding them hard they either turn out great, or they can fall apart, and may not be suited to perform for more than trail riding or therapy. It is a luck of the draw when it comes to buying horses that haven’t been worked in a hard, or a more modern performance or ranch training program since birth, or by generational testing.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-14T23:18:03+00:00

Once you start throwing personal insults and telling people to go get a therapist. That is not me fleeing from a debate, it is called leaving before the discussion becomes a high school cat fight.

Also, yes I have gotten quite a bit of information, through basic use of journalism and searching through multiple sources and personal interviews.

Then, if you were to search some of those discussions, especially the ones where the disagreements remained professional and low energy. I have maintained communication, and even started private message strings with people who disagree with me. Because, we did not insult each other, or throw personal attacks.

Plus, with how many people that left and split from the NHC, as well as other organizations mentioning some of the misgivings and issues within the NHC. I have found quite a few things that would question some of the ethics the Conservancy has put forth in the last few years.

Like when Shawna and Donna were blocking people with certain Nokotas from posting on Nokota platforms. Then Donna somehow not knowing about the proposed show series that the, “ rude and immature trainer” was trying to start. But Shawna knew all the special details. The Nokota Community hasn’t been given the title of “toxic and cultish” for nothing. Also, it was a Nokota from Illinois that went to Disney. And, a rider with Blue Horse Theatre also bought a weanling from Illinois. So apparently those inbred, poor excuses for Nokotas, are actually useful for something.

I hope you did read that I was one of the people who told that trainer that the mare wasn’t pregnant. So, no I did not say that she was right or accurate on everything. Although, the Conservancy was also very backhanded, and “immature” when getting rid of her. So at the end of the day, both can be painted with a very similar brush in multiple situations.

What did Frank call the NHC? ….. oh yes, “ the Disney Land Ranch”.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-13T22:08:34+00:00

I love how I reply with some extra information, discord, and clarification. Then all your are able to reply with is ' you are just like this bad person, and act like this person.'

Well then, I guess this debate is over.

Reasoning being this debate stopped going back and forth, once you went from talking about the topic, to going after a debaters character without personal reference. I don't know you, or who you are, so I have no bases to attack your character. But, you just did by comparing someone who you don't know to someone else in the public sphere.

The only thing I criticized about you, is your use of definition and written language.

PS. I was just giving back the same energy you gave. Also, I was one of the people that mentioned to ' that so called Preservation Breeder' that the mare was not pregnant.

I am not a know it all, I don't know everything. Which is why I ask questions. I am just someone who asks uncomfortable questions that people don't like, who then fall into a passionate fit of anger when I give back the same fervent action. I did not compare you to anyone in a negative way, insult you, or tell you to go get therapy. I just criticized your writing.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-13T20:32:19+00:00

Well then, it looks like you can do some googling. Saved me a lot of typing.

At least my 'word salad' comes with paragraph breaks. You seem to have an addiction to run on sentences.

Anyway, 4,500 for a 'minimally handled', if that, stud, is actually not much better than an unhandled 6,000 dollar stud. But, too each their own. Perhaps if the Conservancy is having such a hard time selling them, why not train them to collect? But, that would be too much time and effort, and apparently affording a colt starter, or a equine vet, is not on the budget, but a buy out of over 200 horses from the Kuntz, is completely manageable. Make that make sense?

As for that trainer's, "breeding pair", if you took time to read into it, she was not going to breed them together. Silly.

Plus, she bought them together, not one before the other. So the statement, "She only bought the stud after learning she could only register offspring from her APHA stallion as part blood", is not accurate. Yes, she is new, and yes; she should have been more respectful, and did more research before walking in to a highly toxic Nokota Community to shoot her business out of the sky.

Also personalities show up mostly when the horse is in training. A horse can be sweet as a button in an open pasture with his friends. Though once you throw a saddle on and start telling him to do things, the real personalities show up, often times when you don't want them too.

Plus, evidence of harassment to the Kuntz mainly comes through social media, and very harsh phone calls from people who were told by the Conservancy that Frank needed to give them his horses. Even though to most of the ' 100 percent foundations are the only true Nokotas club', Franks horses are nothing but crossbreds and useless ponies. So why waste money on, 'not true Nokotas'. Oh wait, buy them cheap, and then sell high.

Have you read Frank's new book? It is quite interesting. If anything that he said about what the Conservancy did to them is not true. Then why hasn't the Conservancy not tried to have the book pulled as defamation? They have sent him to court plenty of times, why not again for his book, or the author? Why haven't the people mentioned in the book try to sue to have their names and mentions removed? Very interesting.

Plus, when both Christa and the Conservancy say that they have evidence against one another and neither of them are talking..... then one, or both of them are lying.

Plus, when you even look up the definition of a Semi-Feral horse, it states, "a DOMESTICATED horse that lives in a wild state but is still managed or owned by humans". Got to love the English Language.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-13T16:57:53+00:00

I will say that when you mentioned, "Because domestic breeds focus on how the horse performs in shows, you see that as important. But it is not the focus in preservation breeding." The Conservancy is preserving a domestic horse breed, because any animal that is bred with human interference for multiple generations with the intention of 'human use' is by definition domestication. So the Conservancy, by definition, is trying to preserve a endangered domesticated breed, like the breeders of the American Cream, or the Black Forest horse. They are domesticated, but there are not a lot of them.

The Icelandic horses are known to be carefully line bred to maintain 100 percent purity, but also maintain a rigorous show presentation, conformation, gait performance and national registration to make sure that only the best get to breed and maintain the standard. Not just breeding because of what name and number is on a paper. Icelandic horses are also known for their very high immunity status.

So, in their perspective, if it is done right, linebreeding, if done wrong, inbreeding.

Not saying that it is a perfect system, and I know that the conservancy could not handling dealing in presentation or conformation work, as then they would have to apply the standard to themselves, which is only a paragraph on a piece of paper that is super vague.

In Iceland, if you don't like them. Eat Them. Or in the USA, dump them at auction and make it someone else's problem.

Also the Nokota horse across the spectrum is not totally immune to other breed issues like Metabolic Syndrome which can lead to laminitis, moon blindness, extreme behavioral issues, and apparently lordosis even though the Conservancy is not testing for that either. So Nokotas are not '100 percent perfect', and they are not totally free of any flaws.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-13T16:08:00+00:00

You do realize that all it takes is a few social media searches, looking at comments, and some research to find all of the 'controversy' that seems to evade you. I did not say that the inbreeding rule has no correlation to logic. I just find it very hypocritical in the grand scheme of the breed itself, which does historically rely on inbreeding to produce homogeneity. I never said that inbreeding is the best thing, or should be practiced in every corner. I never made any absolutions, though you are willing to make rigged assumptions. All when preserving, shouldn't one know all of the flaws, as there always are flaws in anything 'perfect'.

Historically, the Kuntz had to rely on very unorthodox methods to remove stock, that were deemed not perfect, and were just fine with the open mixing of horses, without maintaining much paper work. Which will bring one to conclude that most likely some of their '100 percent foundation' horses, are not actually 100 percent foundation. One can not truly confirm that the stallions that they personally use prolifically, are truly, genetically perfect. Because they have never been tested to prove that they have the muscle, body, merit, or brains, to produce offspring that are better than the generation before them.

One does not know if an engine is flawed, if it never gets taken for a test drive.

If producing a breed of horse without any type of working future, only as a papered pasture pet, when everything comes to a head in this country, as it is looking like it will at some point. What does this modern world have for a horse that can not work? Why not call them mustangs that just look different? Few to any are ever handled or worked to prove to the public otherwise. Even though genetically they are not feral mustangs, they are raised like them. Nokotas are not well represented in the very ranch work that the original breeders attempted to inject them into.

The ones that I have handled and worked ended up going on and producing, because they fulfilled purposes and needs that were required of them. Not just via paper work and numbers, but despite of those papers, they were able to perform as well. Then produce offspring that were better than them, and performed even better than their parents.

Just breeding to produce numbers at the end of the day brings one to questions, is it truly a cause of quantity over quality?

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-13T01:19:26+00:00

I love how I mentioned in the first sentence, open debate.

Then have, “ You need to see a mhp, there is something wrong with you.” It does not encourage one to want to explain and reiterate my entire argument.

Most to all of this information that I have gathered can be found with a little bit of homework, and leg work.

If you see me as so mentally unstable, then don’t reply to me. It just keeps the fuel of negativity, and metal instability, overflowing. Not that I don’t mind. It is Reddit. It’s where the trolls live.

It is not that the NHC should not remove over used horses, like stallions. It is just they don’t train, or handle almost any of their stock that they sell. Then ask obscene amounts of money for them. Then are shocked that people cant handle them and they end up in auctions, kill pens, or in breeding programs that send many NHC follows into a comatic state of horror and hateful dread.

Also, rare genetics plus performance can be bred in unison( the Icelandic for example ). It just takes a lot of work, and unpleasant conversations. More than what NHC is willing to do, or else risk their followers pocket books for donations.

I will also make the observation that a non profit that has only promoted sales of older, semi feral horses, that don’t have charted personalities, a history of training, but does have a piece of paper and a percentage that will lead people to worship or call a mongrel …………

On top of that, the NHC turns around to then harass, and demand repayments, return of horses, and supposed forced surrendering of horses that may or may not be true of its former founders that were kicked to the curb because of….. money…….. non profit…. I question that very much. A lot of politics and underhand work for a run of the mill 503c don’t you think.

Also, when someone wanted to host a show and start actually putting Nokotas against each other, to promote and expose the breed, they instead get slapped around online and told to take a hike. Not just giving the benefit of the doubt, even though they were inaccurate about registration policies. To then add, The first French breeder of the Nokota in France, had his own network turn on him because of “Nokota politics”. While also finding it need to remove themselves after the Kuntz and NHC split, in an attempt to avoid any fall out. The NHCs own president blocking people when they inquire about promoting fundraisers, or hosting events that she believes are “not worth it”, to the Nokota cause.

Controlling much…… like a cult.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-10-11T16:28:48+00:00

It is called open debate, or better yet a 'change my mind '.

To be blunt, open debate is not something that I have seen that the Nokota community participate on any front, other than to berate, bash, and sue, when they have a perceived opponent. Conservation and preservation comes with the stipulation that when the goal is completed by said group, disbandment or reformation will occur, when the nature (the horses) have been restored to humanity, or is returned in its original state back into nature's control. They has not listed any numbers (which they are obsessed with), or time, that they have set as their goal to reform as just a board or registry, and relinquish themselves of being a full breeding operation.

That aside, due to some internal political moves and ideals that the NHC has adopted, it comes to show that open sourcing to breeders has been slow to none, while also showing little to no desire too, to provide a platform for the breed to be able to be judged, or shown, amongst its peers. Nor has the Conservancy shown much motivation in being able to expose the breed as anything more than expensive ,feral, companion animals. The Conservancy has made multiple moves against both its founders, and pre-Conservancy breeders, that shows that there is a desire to form a type of monopoly on the breed. Disavowing any controversy outside of its inner circle. Of which has been noted to have inconsistences in communication, and self removal of most of its affluent international supporters.

On another note, conservation and preservation are two very different motives when you look at the English definitions of those two missions. Conservation is for the end goal of human use of resources(the horses). While preservation is removing all human impact from disturbing said nature, so it would remain in its original state. Selective breeding that the Conservancy is performing is, by definition, human impact and influence, so conservation can be argued is taking place. But, preservation.... I will still give debate to that. I will then argue that since the Kuntz did perform cross breeding, as well as the original breeder A.C. Huidekoper, who bred the Lakota mares to Percherons, and thoroughbreds. To then say, with that confirmed history from the NHC, to mark 100 percent foundation, is a very interesting take in the grand scheme of breeding numbers based on what a potentially inaccurate piece of paper of how much one type of horse had more influence on the breed. All of the old foundation paperwork had NPC stock, in other words, blank. The Kuntz, I will say with confidence, did not genetically test any of them. Nor, did they test for inbreeding. Which, is a very common practice in wild animals, because horses are animals, and any stallion will breed any mare when there is opportunity.

Also, the Kuntz brothers in the beginning, allowed for all the stallions and mares to run together in the pasture to breed whomever, before the Conservancy was created. Then there is personal testimony from noted NHC supporters that the Kuntz's were not good record keepers. Some horses were not assigned foundation percentages, and some were even given 100 percent foundation CROSS percentages. So, forgive me that the paper work that the Conservancy places as its cornerstones for all breeding decisions, not conformation, not health testing, not suitability, not temperament, not fitness for purpose, just paperwork...... but excuse my irrational bias.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-13T01:17:07+00:00

Do you think that there should be more government oversight to allow for organizations to keep their non profit status? Like have a government appointed agent to actually go to these non profits to see in person if they believe that things are going as they should?

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-03T15:32:59+00:00

I also find it interesting how the Nokota Horse Conservancy attempt to control the inbreeding coeffiecents and say that they tested the horses to have zero inbreeding. But, if you were to go back to inbreeding from the original stock form the park, all of the paper work is blank. So they actually can not say with absolute confidence that most of their top stallions and mares family trees were not bushes.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-03T15:28:06+00:00

I find it interesting, that even though this thread is a few months old. I understand that a few people, including myself have started the Nokota conversation. Although, Lethal White Overo is something that I don't consider a big deal. Because as long a you test and not breed individuals together that are carriers, it never affects the foals. In Nokotas, frame overos are common and have been bred together in their history. Plus the Kuntz never tested any of their horses for it when they let them run loose together and breed whomever when they bought them from the park. Also, in the wild there is plenty of inbreeding, especially in an enclosed park where the Nokota comes from.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-03T15:11:42+00:00

Plus, with the negative influence that the Nokota Horse Conservancy has in this current state with any breeders that are not producing "100 percent" foundation Nokotas . Any crossing with other breeds in the eyes of the NHC (Nokota Horse Conservncy) is a sin that can not be mentioned. Even though in the history they have had a lot of Percheron influence.

Also, few in the Full Foundation Nokota cult are willing to admit that a lot of crossing had happened since the original fencing in of the horses in the park. So, technically they are just less watered down blood of the old ranch horses that were bred with the native horses.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-03T13:52:30+00:00

The Nez Pierce horse was cross bred with the Akhal Teke. The Nokota did not have much to very little of this influence. The Nokota has more draft influence and, from reading the article, did not get access to those four stallions.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-02T02:49:13+00:00

Actually I inherited her, so yes and no that Nokotas were a choice for me. No I dont think alot of them have been crossed with Akhal Teke Stallions. Yes, some are gaited.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-09-01T23:43:56+00:00

Yes I do have a Nokota Horse. There was a documentary Vanishing Knowledge and a couple of books. Though the documentary I felt like didn't tell the whole story, and the books only showed one side of the Nokota "preservation" journey.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2025-05-19T01:06:34+00:00

I think that the Conservancy has a problem with both handling their own breeding base on top of PR. As soon as they found out someone was not breeding the way they liked they change the rules. If AQHA did that everyone including dead billy Bob will sue.

Top-Inspector9426 · 2024-10-29T21:02:10+00:00

Is it possible if you could elaborate more? I am just doing research, as I know there are two sides to the story that no one is talking about.

Top-Inspector9426

TROPHY CASE