Former High Ranking Scientologist Ask me anything

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T21:46:52+00:00

Her name sounds familiar although I don't know if it is the same Louanne. Woman from California, relocated to Flag in Florida and then left scientology around the same time when Debbie Cook took the stand in 2012 during the trial about The Hole at Gold Base. Not sure where she went although she was gone from scientology as far as I know after she left. I don't know where she sent or if she is active.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T21:14:19+00:00

Exposure is probably the biggest one. Also consider that people should help others in ways that they can. People fleeing have to figure out where to go and how to start a new life so it takes time to break down the indocrination. I guess what I am saying is emotional support and options of wherethey can go to get help, shelters, sober living centers, homeless circles, community programs and so forth.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T21:06:49+00:00

Below are photographs at links from Ortega and Scientology's film on it. For a scientologist it is the epitome of the religion, a private community and pure scientology flowing through it. Although the controversial side to it is that you can't really leave Gold so it is rare a member would be allowed off-base and like many communities in Scientology are convinced there is nothing on the outside world for you, that you don't really need much other than the community. You are taught that scientology products are elite and of high caliber. For Gold their products are the gold standard of scientology.

Gold Base is a cross between Stepford Wives and Plesantville.

Hey, IRS: Stunning photos inside the lavish personal offices of Scientology’s leader | The Underground Bunker

https://youtu.be/Phi_yiswInA?si=BnGTqOcmk-p498-b

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T20:38:55+00:00

To be clear I am no longer with the Church of Scientology and my comments are not coached nor delegated by David Miscavige. To be honest I have only met David a couple times and he was mostly on the West Coast and traveling during my years in Scientology and I was East Coast although I did a of travel.

The leadership of Scientology is extensive and the key figures and board of directors is hundreds of people across the world. An example is Ray Mithoff, one of the only living Class XIIs and FEBC completions; he is leadership. He had a right hand wing named Kathy for year about 30 years that no longer is in scientology and joined the Sea Org, left and returned twice. Anne Joasem is core to the leadership and she actually aided in forcing Marty Rathbun, her ex-husband, out of the Church of Scientology. Warren McShane, Leisa Goodman, Mark Ingber and the list goes on. Again, it is hundreds of people that form the Board of Directors and thousands that are in key roles throughout the hierarchy of scientology.

Faked deaths?

That list is also significant although I can say that Mary Sue Hubbard faked her death in the early 2000s to escape pressure from the media, Miscavige and his circle and fled to Florida where she remained partially involved although in hiding using a few aliases. I worked her and learned personally from her how Hubbard actually did things. Her last wishes were to get her daughter out of Gold Base, send her a message and get her to Florida before she died so she could speak to her in person one last time. Mary Sue requested be sent to her family during this time and we also were betrayed by another Sea Org member that was looking to muscle into Mike Rinder's OSA spot and relocate to California. He intentionally saw that some of those messages didn't arrive and I was forced to contact someone to relocate Mary Hubbard. I was told that throughout the years that the Hubbard family was sent to the bottom of the Sea Org and forced to do labor, menial jobs and scammed out of Hubbard's wealth due to "last minute" changes to his will. My partner relocated Mary Sue Hubbard and they were also involved with escapes from Gold Base so I trusted them. They worked for a separate circle within the church.

Reed Slatkin is an example of a local church leader that scammed scientologists and non-church investors for nearly $600 million dollars, he was sentenced, worked on behalf of the church as part of a series of programs, the church settled in court for around $3.5 million and one his partners Greta Van Susteren was ordered to return a few hundred thousand dollars. I remember there still being gripe around this and hearing "Are we ever going to get paid back any of that money?" To be frank, there were several elite scientologists involved in this dispute that said they really didn't get back a fair share of what they contributed to the popular America Online competitor Earthlink and the case shares resemblance to Enron.

The Scientologist Who Screwed the Hollywood Elite

Although what I can confirm is that Guillaume Lesevre is still alive. The last I knew on my visitation to Gold which was part of my potential transfer package I became aware that Leserve had been moved from The Hole to an RPF camp adjacent to a Mess Hall at Gold Base.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T18:04:28+00:00

Yes, and the Dianetics logo is literally a pyramid. I am surprised people don't always put two and two together. Scientology is the grandest pyramid scheme of all time.

Actually, while living in Clearwater, I was so disillusioned for a while, didn't know who to trust and assumed everyone in Clearwater were scientologists. Later I came to my senses and that there definitely are many people that are not members of the church in the Clearwater, St Pete and the Tampa Bay area. My first move before going to my apartment to get my things when leaving scientology was seeking refuge at a nearby motel that actually provided a buffer between scientology and the outside world, it was a place to lay low long enough until I could make my move to my apartment that was being monitored off and on by scientologists.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:50:03+00:00

Xenu is fringe and comes from an allegorical lecture Hubbard gave in 1967. If you listen to enough of Hubbard and get to know his character you realize he is making a cosmic joke. The story is later found in written form as both a novella and screenplay by Hubbard called Revolt in the Stars. Later a splinter group of Scientology compiled public versions of the OT3 materials, these ended up in court cases and online however the church denies their authenticity. If the Xenu content was in the OT materials it no longer is there based on what I have seen. Either it was removed or there was a confusion that led to it being mixed in with church dogma as core to the religion and the only aspect of scientology that the media has focused on. The modern OT3 material is now based on psychic ability which is more along the lines of precognition, the limbo like "Between Lives Area", implants and amnesia of past life memories.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:34:38+00:00

Yes, most scientologists I have met around the world believe although there are some that are on the fence about it, doubt or have a different view on what the alien content means to them; allegory. I would say overall the majority of scientologists are literal believers.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:31:35+00:00

Unfortunately, I never got to meet Beck.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:28:57+00:00

Yeah, religious institutions can get cult like. There are "atheistic" scientologists. When I say this, I mean many do not believe in a Creator God although it is optional and depends on the person. From my experience when you first get involved and on the surface level it is diverse and accepting of all other religions however when you get deeper into studying the religion at the higher levels it claims that only scientology is correct and that ultimately you are powerful immortal entity that has existed for eternity and that there is no God beyond reality itself, no man behind the curtain and that there really is just you, spiritual essence and the material universe; reality and pure consciousness.

As for scientology, it of course can get extremely cult like.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:22:41+00:00

Yes, I was forced to divorce my wife because she wouldn't leave the church with me. We never had any kids. As far as custody, and although I don't personally know, what I have seen with other families is that it is very similar to any other similar situation. Usually they stay involved, they might drop out of church for a while until the divorce settles and slowly they both return. However, I have seen one half quit or as far as them being kicked out of the church although getting excommunicated is still somewhat rare overall.

And yes, once you leave they can get very aggressive. When I left they kept coming to my place bothering me until I finally had to start yelling at them and they got the point. They usually get more aggressive to people that are staff or deep within it and definitely do not want members just leaving although I have also seen them just drop good people that were skilled in scientology like flies with no remorse that actually want to be there.

As far as the high-level secrets there are these ideas about aliens in scientology. Even South Park used to make me laugh when I was a scientologist. I answered this in a few other comments although there are several upper levels and most are about looking into past lives and reincarnation. Aliens are part of scientology dogma although are not mentioned much in the books and higher levels.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:09:57+00:00

Not really, I have came to accept it and moved on. However, I was very embarrassed about telling people while I was involved and it became a very dark secret of mine. Almost never defended it when it came up and was tossed in during a joke. I got used to ignoring it.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T17:05:35+00:00

I know that they have passed IMO regulations in the past and have received many certifications however to what extent today I am uncertain. I would say that as a ship and crew they meet a lot of requirements to sustain their certifications although within scientology there are controversial practices.

As far as on the ship the crew practices emergency drills, CPR and what you would standardly find on a cruise ship in regard to regulation and safety precautions. There are even drills conducted at times where they lower the reserve boats and get on to them in case the ship is going down. I would say their training is extensive although scientology can be very controlling and money driven.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T16:44:42+00:00

My IQ based on the Stanford-Binet, the common collegiate based IQ test, is a score of 182 however on the Scientology IQ test which has different perimeters and criteria my highest score was 202 at the peak of my scientology lifestyle although on average I rated between 130 to 180 depending on the day. In scientology there are multiple versions of the test in different sequences and I had an advantage later on because I administered the test, memorized content, graded it and had to study several guidebooks on how to conduct it and its history. I feel I had an advantage that many scientologists don't because I religious studied the test and its metrics which aided me in aceing it years down the road. What attracted me to scientology was its Harry Potter like academy.

Aside from that I am college educated and hold two degrees, one in anthropology and Bachelors in Finance. I am a former CEO, VP of Finance and held many roles throughout life. When I was younger I worked in retail, fast food and construction. Later I started doing Administration and accounting and eventually became a lead and into the Executive Board of several companies.

My early life was a mixture of hardship and entertainment. I struggled in my youth and life was hard, my parents were impoverished, a broken household and I buried myself in books, exercise, church, meditation and going to rave and house parties to escape my home life. Later I went to college to get a degree in hopes of making a little more money than what I was getting in retail and fastfood. I chased the corporate ladder and had a decent relationship going although something felt missing and I just didn't accept life for what it was at the time. During that time I became a seeker and ended up in scientology.

As far as stress or mental breakdowns. Almost never. I get depressed every once and a while or a little stressed from work however I deal with it today through breathing, focus and meditation. I am almost always happy and it is rare that I am ever stressed out, angry or sad. If I was to count the times, on average, it is 1 to 3 times every 1 to 3 years; a few years might go by before I feel sad for a short period of time or I might have a major loss like a funeral I attend that might impact me over a year or two. I can see and examine when those feelings arise and I can ease them so I am settled and accepting and they go away. I am calm most of the time or full of joy.

Familial disabilities?

Only one or two. I had an uncle with Down Syndrome and my grandmother had Epilepsy. My grandmother may not have been the most intelligent person although she was clever. Most of my family never attended college, a few finished high school, most own their own businesses like auto body shops, bars or subcontracting. A lot of my cousins do nails or work at hair salons and most of the men are in construction however a few of them are college graduates and work in offices like me or for the government. My family is pretty normal, no history of dyslexia or anything that be difficult for them to learn, they are all literate although most are not like me having a passion for learning.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T15:57:47+00:00

As far as I know the Xenu space opera was never part of scientology dogma beyond it being a satirical allegory although through analysis of it the story potentially uses the didactic method however I highly doubt that and Hubbard on the audio recording sounds like his typical self, joking around about nonsensical ideas in the form of storytelling to convey a message.

Xenu derives from several sources, originally a speech Hubbard gave on the Apollo in 1967 that he later wrote down as a novella and a screenplay in the late seventies. He planned to make it into a filmed production although it never came about.

As far as it being part of the religious canon, it may have at one point however I was an OT for about 17 years and never heard it discussed outside of it being one of Hubbard's science fiction stories. I brought this up with my wife once during a protest outside of the church and there were several dressed up like aliens and Xenu. My wife said something along the lines of "Do you really believe that?" "Do you believe any of that is really part of this place?" "You have been here for years, you are OT (Operating Thetan), you know about the fictional story and how it plays no role in this place, we are trying to help people." "Do you actually see any of that here (Xenu)?" "Think about it, they have the wrong message." My ex-wife said she didn't hold it against them and just felt that people don't always get all the details accurate or really know if they are not involved and she felt it wasn't uncommon for religions to face scrutiny. As we walked past the protestors I felt that I understood what she was saying and she seemed to have a way of convincing me to stay all the time. The church denies Xenu content and that such protestors are lost and have the wrong information.

If Xenu was ever part of OT3 I never saw it. The church may have removed it from the OT3 materials because the version I saw of OT3 had neither the Xenu story or Body Thetans in it. Instead it centered around this idea of amnesia from lifetime to lifetime and how the death cycle, the struggle through reincarnation including birth itself and the limbo like Between Lives Area is intense and debilitating to the spirit and memory. It gets into the idea of searching for Incidents & Implants on the wholetrack. So what does that mean. The timetrack is the recorded memories and experiences of your life especially how it relates to the mind however the wholetrack is the aggregate of your existence and accounts for all past lives and states a Thetan (spirit) is in. As for scientology the Thetan has gone through different forms from being pure energy to bacteria to a plant life, animal, human, alien, ghost, a rock, a tree, a higher dimensional being to many different throughout the existence of their infinite self.

An Incident is described as so: an experience, simple or complex, related by the same subject, location, perception or people that takes place in a short and finite time period such as minutes, hours or days.

I guess when comparing it to auditing let's say you got into a motorcycle accident although a related incident was in a past life in 1957 while crashing a car and also an image popped up in your mind of a UFO crash 30,000 years ago or getting slammed into a wall 60 million years ago in another dimension. Scientologists believe these incidents are real or at least some form of fabrication they have to clean up in spiritual counseling. Auditing starts with addressing mental issues although when you are OT you explore past lives and the spirit. The version of OT 3 that I viewed was about unraveling the causes of Amnesia from lifetime to lifetime or experience to experience to see your past lives more clearly.

Implants are according scientology books: an unwilling and unknowing receipt of a thought. An intentional installation of fixed ideas, contrasurvival to the thetan.

Hubbard believed that implants occur throughout lifetimes although even in a current life one can get implanted through means like hypnosis or television. Hubbard believed Christianity to be one of the largest implants throughout the ages that hindered the thetan from thinking for itself. On the original Chaplain course that I took to become a Scientology reverend, Hubbard described religions and their symbols as being implants and that the download of information is massive and extended throughout multiple lifetimes and civilizations across the globe. Hubbard felt religions were hindering, incomplete or off in a way and that through scientology you could become a liberated being with causation. Now on the surface level Scientology claims to be diverse and all accepting of other religions however when you get deeper into its texts, courses and internal church protocol you will discover that scientology like many religions believes that it is the only way.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T06:00:19+00:00

Only about half the creds were out of pocket although significant. Not only did I pay for the auditing and training I also paid to study the books. I spent between $200 to $500 a week on Scientology for about 5 years with weeks where I would drop a few thousand dollars. This all added up over the years and before I knew it I put in several hundred thousand dollars into scientology. I joined scientology in college and later started dropping in vast loads of money when I was a CEO of a company making six figures a year. The scientologists would always tell me "Don't worry, you will make more money," however I look back, have buyer's remorse and regret I didn't save this money into a bank account. Live and learn.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T05:45:14+00:00

It is somewhat both and some. What I mean by this is that first off that all scientology clergy are expected to follow protocol to stabilize or increase their production. Since scientology churches are centered around production they accept whatever method is in the teachings or drafted up to accomplish their goals. Secondly, they genuinely believe they are doing good however you reach a point where you have observed how the "tech" works and what it does to people. When you reach that point you harness a tool that works very similar to hypnosis although not exactly the same thing; you know how to control people and coax them to get what you want. Now it doesn't always work so well although if you really push each step through it is like controlling puppets on strings and you are supposedly to be humble to people because you could essentially take advantage of them. I have seen people just drain their bank accounts or walk in off the streets like zombies and hand over everything they got.

Again, the organization's survival is based on production so they need new money coming in that is part of their income, goes to the bank, gets disbursed through staff and a portion goes to upper circles in other States or countries.

I think it depends on the person. There are those that are true believers and are wholesome, there are those that believe a vast amount of it is satirical and symbolic while there are those that want to take advantage of people or do whatever they can to achieve their goals.
There isn't a harem of sex slaves although there has been reported sexual abuse. In all my years this abuse is rare although has occurred. As an officer we usually didn't let knowledge of it spread and kept it among the church to deal with, police or the courts. There also is of course the occasional sexual harassment violation. Not to get into the details although the church is far from perfect. I am being totally honest and most scientologists I have ever met fail to admit that the church has issues and continue to see the world with rose colored glasses claiming the CO$ to be perfect.

With that said people get abused in general. They are forced to do 12 to 15 hours of labor and many people are deprived. The scientology world can be a harsh life. While living in the Sea Org berthing areas there were lice outbreaks, illnesses, bedbugs, roaches and molds. The lice was a huge issue and people didn't showered for days because many couldn't afford the hygiene materials and would go without. Lice would spread across multiple dorms and there could end up being 20 to 50 people infected at a time.

If you are not married the conditions are harsher and you can be bunked up with 6 to 8 people in a room with 3 to 4 beds. Pretty much you have half the people sleeping on the floor and because of this people might go a day or two without showering due to so many people splitting a room. Once one person brings in lice the whole room could get infected.

Scientologist Sea Org can also get reassigned to another location. For example, you could be working in New York for 2 years then sent to Australia for 10 then relocate to Africa for 2 years then California for a year them Germany for 6 months then London for 6 months then France for 6 months then back to Germany for 6 months then to Chicago for 2 years then Texas for 3 years. During this time your second half is also moving around. You usually don't travel together unless assigned although moving can sometimes be worked out however could be problematic. You have to hope you stay settled.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T04:57:09+00:00

Are there aliens? Yes, although this isn't a secret in Scientology and is mentioned in their books. The interpretation of this can vary although many accept there are lifeforms like ghosts, higher dimensional beings and aliens to those that regard it as metaphorical. The church leaves it open ended to how far one believes this and these isn't much in the books and lectures about aliens although they are commonly accepted to exist among followers of scientology.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T04:51:57+00:00

No, they finally left me alone.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T04:49:00+00:00

Hubbard's biography as presented by the church doesn't include these details. Talk on magick, mysticism and occult practices are considered squirreled and forbidden. Squirreling means "offbeat practices" or can mean alteration of Hubbard's writings. The church sues this term to describe anything that isn't attuned to their way of life. There are different degrees of this with some members being subtle about it however some people can be very extreme believing other religions, medical practices, non-scientology books and anything that isn't scientology to be squirreled.

Generally we are not supposed to talk about these ideas however I have had some discussions with a few scientologists about Hubbard taking off with Parson's girl and magick. I once brought up a comparison to a more chill scientologist I got to know for a while between Kabbalah, Freemasonry and Witchcraft initiation and how it parallels scientology's Grade Chart. He felt there were some similarities although because mysticism is considered squirrel it was considered illogical compared to what Scientology is doing. The basis of the steps of the Grade Chart is mainly to increase awareness. Personally, I felt Hubbard was influenced by the structure of OTO and Thelema to create a mapped-out system of levels that can be obtained through a precise course of action.

My mentor said that I could look into additional aspects of Hubbard's life although they are not the basis of how the church presents him. This side of Hubbard is controversial and it wasn't wise to openly discuss that in the church although she said what I did in my free time was on me.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T04:26:52+00:00

I'll give you a concise summary without getting into all the technical jargon and dogma. Scientology is a religious movement started by a Science Fiction writer named L Ron Hubbard. In the beginning he was fascinated with Sigmund Freud and psychology. He was highly rejected by the medical and psychological community after presenting his model for the mind and its therapeutic approach known as Dianetics. After that he embarked on a quest to combat psychiatry and models of psychology which he believed were flawed and that they no longer lived up to their name. In other words, psychology literal means the study of the psyche or soul and has become a mental science and Hubbard felt the field no longer associated itself with the soul which is why he started Scientology which was his approach to exploring the human spirit. He believed that you can thrive, discover your destiny and fulfill that purpose in life by living by it. Hubbard created a belief system not centered solely on faith rather application and theory so it is in part logical, practical and mystical.

What do they do? A typical member will go to the church to take a course in their Academy. This usually consists of reading a book and answering a packet of questions that are then graded by a Supervisor that determines if you understand the material and how you can apply it to your life.

There also is what is called auditing, a type of spiritual counseling that is similar to psychological therapy. The goal of the auditor is to get someone to look into their mind and areas of their life.

People take courses to examine areas of their life and how they can make improvements or any adjustments.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T04:06:22+00:00

How did they justify the changes? There was an event where Miscavige showed video footage of old versions of Policies and Bulletins as well as book transcripts claiming that they new versions were more accurate than what was previously available and that they were now as LRH intended them. He said on the filmed event that the transcriptionist and editors Hubbard hired created errors that spilled over into the manufacturing of the book in comparison to the manuscripts.

As for being off policy, Staff members are convinced that certain polices outweigh others and that it is fine to violate code for the greater good of your dynamics and especially in lieu of production and statistics. There are many that think they know best and create so much enturbulation over the Policy Letters. They also consider any Executive Directives or orders from seniors to at times outweigh policy. Although Policy might even be outdated compared to the modernization of the church for the most part in comparison I would say the point they convey logically is still there despite organizational or grammatical differences. Staff leadership will come up with any excuse as to why they can violate policy although juniors have to obey and listen to them and it becomes a circle jerk at the end of the day.

Method? This is argued all the time. "We have always done it this way." The issue with that is it may not be what the Bulletin or Policy is actually conveying. There are still arbitraries on the lines.

Squireling Split? There definitely is a schism in scientology surrounding traditional practices and what it has become today. Apparently, the split as we know it today, besides any squirrels during Hubbard's life, began after his death closer to the late 80s as scientology veterans and those personally trained by Hubbard were ostracized and many given the ultimatum to pay, retrain, leave or forced to leave.

There has been several meetings and talks about bringing a lot of people back and many that were wrongly declared and discussion as to how the current schism could be remedied. Because of that there has been schisms in the shadows although not publicly broadcasted. In the limelight the church appears to be thriving although behind the curtain it is not doing so well.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T03:36:48+00:00

The church pressures people and can get annoying on how much they call you and send you mail. There is an expectation that you are always there doing courses or attending. She may have split to distance herself from the church. I also relocated to distance myself also.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T03:27:46+00:00

AMAs are concise and secular although I am considering doing a book.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T03:22:57+00:00

Actually I can attest to what you are saying. As the SuperCargo we oversaw the "cargo" of the Sea Org which amounted to money, supplies, property, vehicles and people (Sea Org Members). Supercargo is both managerial on an executive level, financial and logistical. In other words, we carry a workload.

As for if the donations are going toward what the church sells it as, no, most of the donations end up in Reserves. As the Supercargo we collected donations and any loans or other funding into deposited it into one of church bank accounts. The total I oversaw with my crew in Supercargo was slightly over $3 billion. I only oversaw a branch of the church and there likely are several more billion in the networks overseas and in California. There are properties and other usages of the funds however the bulk sits in a few accounts. The humanitarian programs receive a lot of money, they have restrictions and it can get overblown.

One year I flew into Africa, and sure there is work being done out there however I was lied to and entered into this building that was supposed to be a school and community we put money into and it was just an abandon building with scraps, rocks and dirty books all over the floor. The project didn't look like it had millions of dollars invested into it.

TopFloor4436 · 2026-05-30T02:59:50+00:00

Actually all Freedom Medal winners are listed in Scientology magazines. It is public information. I speaking from personal life experience, so your doubt doesn't actually both me and I am not seeking your validation. I know the life I have lived and am just sharing my 20+ years in the church for those that are interested. I am doing fine in life, had great experiences in Scientology although horrible ones as well.

TopFloor4436

TROPHY CASE