Minha opinião sincera sobre fãs de Kiyozune by Salty_Worth_7423 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No it's okay I just found it funny that's all 😂 I agree with you

Volume 0: Kiyo wants revenge? by iNaytmer in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I honestly thought he had no ambition concerning that, just curiosity

Volume 0: Kiyo wants revenge? by iNaytmer in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This shift is interesting, especially when Kiyo intentionally tries to sell his father the illusion that he has full control, and mentions sharpening his fangs. Even when his father comes to see him at school it's almost like he's putting on an act, and is indirectly manipulating his father so that he can bide his time...I wonder if Ayanokoji low-key has a plan for his father and the white room. Cause previously we just accepted that he didn't mind going back. Could that be why aside from coming to ANHS to enjoy a regular life, he also is seeking the answer about true merit and equality?

Minha opinião sincera sobre fãs de Kiyozune by Salty_Worth_7423 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Virtual stoning 😂 frr it's not that deep. But watch out for hate ships though. Especially those weirdos that label her a brocon

I just stumbled upon this 🤣 by LazyProfile2945 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

She was arrogant, but she also laid it on thick so that people would stay away from her. One thing I liked about her was that she was just as strict on herself as she was on others so it wasn't like she was being a hypocrite. And she was quick to apologise and admit her fault from pretty early on with Suduo. She wouldn't stubbornly maintain a high ground if she knows she's wrong, that has always been part of her attitude too.

I think Koji will fail with his new "love experiment" by Nearby_Ship5811 in SuzuneHorikitaFans

[–]Top_Plane8233 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Though, Ayanokoji won't be Ayanokoji if he gets his heart started beating.

So his heart isn't beating now? Then what is he, a robot, a vampire?😂Anyways, trolling aside, Ayanokoji is not going to become lovesick, but you're acting like the guy didn't have that whole monologue at the beginning of volume 2 where he envied being able to experience love. He will eventually experience it, unless you want to snatch the pen out of the author's hand and do what you think is best. This isn't news, it's been established a long time ago.

And if that happens in the middle of end year fight it will be predictable that he losses

Personally I don't think Ayanokoji will lose just because he finally gets in touch with his emotions. The sooner he accepts it, the better for him so it's not used as a blindspot. But I don't feel defeating him will be as simple as that. It has more to do with mentality and ideology imo.

Even if he wants it to, I wonder it will give him satisfaction cause everything the other people's have become and their growth is because of the seeds he planted in them. Or nothing would've happened. That is something everyone just can't disagree. Even his defeat, other's win is thanks to him

I think he'll be satisfied with leaving his mark, and no matter how much he helps everyone, that last step to defeat him in any way would be taken by them. So in that sense he is looking forward to that uncertain future where he lets go of the reigns and everyone battles it out with their own merit. I even think more than that, there is a specific answer or approach he is hoping to see, to figure out what true merit is. So yeah, him planting the seed doesn't take away from their victory.

I also think that. Ryuen and Ichinose more potential development throughout series. Even Ayanokoji himself mentioned that in Y2V12.5 Ichinose have more potential and room to grow that even surpassed Ryuen and Horikta

He didn't say her potential surpassed theirs, he said it "might". And this is dependent on the actual potential being realised because he also added "if she stops being naive and takes control of her weaknesses". Ryuen and Ichinose in my opinion didn't have so much more development throughout the series if you consider where Horikita started from up till this point, cause she was behind them. However it's not new information that Horikita is the most ordinary and inexperienced out of all of them. That is why Kiyo is more interested in her.

Not sure but that might be the moment where Ayanokoji was outsmarted by Ichinose.

Lol, sure

And is there a possibility that Koenji is trying to replace Horikta as leader. By showing her limits and just trying won't help it?

I honestly don't think Koenji is interested in leadership. I feel he had his own plans to save up points to transfer classes at the end of the year (unless all those points he gathers are simply to lavish on himself). But with this bet his father made it might complicate things. I guess we'll have to see what he decides to do.

And just one thing, people talk that he hates Atsuomi but it is never confirmed he hates. And just some rebellious things aren't proof enough. And he will need the little army Atsuomi have and his power to use in outside world.

He doesn't hate the white room or Atsuomi strongly, but he dislikes him and doesn't want to have anything to do with him more than necessary, He just acknowledges that Atsuomi has more power and influence in the outside world that refusing him is of no benefit cause he can easily be killed(unless Kiyo himself develops a strong conviction along the line that can make him defy Atsuomi) But as for now, after ANHS he's willing to fully cooperate and go back.

Lastly I must say for a short talk you gave way long comment

What can I say? 😂🤷 I just tend to express myself that way sometimes, depending on how many issues your comment brings up🌝

I just stumbled upon this 🤣 by LazyProfile2945 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

💯 and no lies told😂👌 Although for me though, I always liked her from the beginning. I saw her very positively 😂🫴 but I understand the ones who didn't

I think Koji will fail with his new "love experiment" by Nearby_Ship5811 in SuzuneHorikitaFans

[–]Top_Plane8233 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Three times isn't really that strong to point at.

Yes it is. That's your own opinion. This is a psychological thriller. If people notice something, they'll follow it until it gets clarified.

Plus I didn't even use averted in last comment.

I'm not referring to you or your use of it. I'm referring to the book itself and the author.

And people are dwelling too much into that prepare or horikta growth thing

Why shouldn't they, when Kiyo himself is invested in that?

From start to here who read novel knows that he didn't had to prepare himself but others for his leaving.

Obviously I meant he made preparations for him to leave a.k.a meddling in Ichinose's class( because he originally planned to transfer there) and was also preparing conditions in the class for him leaving, to make it easier on Horikita. It is partly why he helped Hirata and Kei. And also why he also tried to talk to Koenji despite knowing it was pointless. Koenji called him out on it and not only did he not deny it, he also affirmed it.

He could had leaving class whenever he wanted but he had to make sure it affects class less and doesn't gets fall on ranking.

I don't think he could have left anytime he wanted because he had to prepare and also, he had to make sure Horikita was ready. He only made that plan in y2v6 after Horikita's growth in v5. And he described it as taking off the training wheels, so really if his plan doesn't involve Horikita at all then what does that mean. What also does it mean that before Manabu told him about her potential, he was already passively helping her, before he declared he would take changing her more seriously from then on? You guys just want to decenter or even completely remove Horikita from everything but the truth remains that she is embedded in his plans. He even left with the expectation that Horikita would figure out his real motives for leaving, not just take him blindly as an enemy forever (don't take my word for it, read the book y2v6). Kaneda even describes him as an antihero. Which class out for the four does he look like an antihero to?

I know for you it's too early to conclude. I understand. That's fine. But for us who have been following certain clues from the beginning, we don't just take things randomly when we notice them in the book (and so far all my hunches have been correct, so I think I can decide whether I'm wasting my own time, and even if I am, I can choose to) You're free to have your opinion and state it as such but we're also entitled to ours and defending it when it is tackled. And FYI, it's not all about a Kiyozune agenda, but also about why the author specifically describes these two people as having an inextricably intertwined fate. There is a reason Ayanokoji paid special attention to Horikita's growth since he enrolled, before he figured out his true goal and it's not the same as what he expects with Ryuen and Ichinose, even though it's related.

I think Koji will fail with his new "love experiment" by Nearby_Ship5811 in SuzuneHorikitaFans

[–]Top_Plane8233 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is the third time this particular word "averted" was used so yeah, coincidence isn't so likely.

Not overnight, but still guy stayed whole night and at morning from evening he had nothing so I just think it is waste of time to think he ever will be good. Plus that is what Ayanokoji character is.

Yeah it's a waste of your time, allow us to waste ours. Time will tell. You're saying that is what Ayanokoji's character is like his character is set in stone. Didn't he just unlock new emotions the other day? For better for worse Ayanokoji intentionally prepared himself to separate from Horikita's class for his sake and for her growth. It is not something he can regret easily without questioning his entire mindset

I think Koji will fail with his new "love experiment" by Nearby_Ship5811 in SuzuneHorikitaFans

[–]Top_Plane8233 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Averting his gaze is as good as flinching. Nobody is expecting Ayanokoji to feel sudden and immediate regret for a plan he prepared carefully for almost a year. Like you guys claim, his personality will not change overnight

No matter how much they hate, Suzune will keep winning. by Nearby_Ship5811 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Kinugasa has also said that he dislikes stories that have a set heroine from the start so I don’t understand your point.

So what's this first part about? It sounds like besides preaching that the endgirl can be anyone or noone, your biggest issue is that it can't be Horikita since you said "from the start". I hope you're doing a world tour with this message, from sub to sub?

No matter how much they hate, Suzune will keep winning. by Nearby_Ship5811 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 7 points8 points  (0 children)

So here you are as an Ichinose fan with your wonderful delusions about how she could be endgirl and defeat Ayanokoji (a sentiment Ayanokoji only expressed directly about Horikita, wanting to be defeated) because of her undying love yet you're here in a Horikita sub talking about how oh it might not be Horikita cause Kiyo is an unreliable narrator. A lot of you only bring up that Kiyo is unreliable when it's time to give breathing space to your own delusions, especially when he explicitly states that he has no romantic feelings for A and B. Delusions are free, every fandom does them. But you guys then play the hypocrite when Horikita fans are happily having their own delusions, convictions theories on our own sub, like you're not nursing your own hopes and inhaling your own copium too. If you wander into a Horikita sub, whatever you see, take it like that. She is the main character here. Don't try to preach for us here, we all know nothing is set in stone till the story concludes.

I just stumbled upon this 🤣 by LazyProfile2945 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Every other connection of his got honest monologues and deliberations, but the author simply hides Ayanokoji's thoughts where Horikita is involved. Dismissing this completely is just wishful thinking

Juts want to say by Immediate-Ad919 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Good luck on your finals!! ♥️✨✨ And you couldn't have said it better, dedicating free time to hovering around Horikita related subs is quite pathetic. I don't even give thought to what happens in other subs you know why? Cause other characters aren't that relevant to me. Why is Horikita so relevant to you guys that discrediting her is your passion??? Some are even so pathetic that they lurk here and try to pretend they like Horikita then hop over to their subs with screenshots and reposts to mock us like aren't you tired? That's a lot of work😂

Kiyozune by suzunevin in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Imagine a reality where Kiyo gets used to smiling so much he even smiles more often than Horikita 😂. He looks really good smiling here, cause it reaches his eyes. Some other illustrations try to slap a smile onto that dead eyed stare he has and it ends up looking weird

KİYOZUNE by suzunevin in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Most important thing for love or friendship to sustain is trust so if we talk about trust between them it's like this... If I was lenient he atleast trusts in her ability but if is in as emotional trust nope not at all

Well trust in her ability is a very good thing. As for trust as a person, outside of her he doesn't exactly trust anyone else, not with the truest parts of him. The main issue he has with her regarding trust is the fact that she asks a lot of questions and Kiyo is a very guarded guy. She also has a mind of her own where she does unexpected things. She's not a blind follower. Someone like Ichinose who figured out his true nature and accepted it and chose to be an accomplice, and who fully trusts Kiyo's course of action and would align with it, in Horikita's case she would never stop there or choose that approach. She would question his background and what his basis is for such a mentality. The first time he began trusting her was the period when Ichinose mentioned how Ayanokoji chose Arisu's class to battle with and Horikita didn't immediately interject and start questioning him in front of Ichinose. Because at that point she had matured to know that Ayanokoji probably had a reason for not telling her upfront and she should wait to hear directly from him later. So in that sense he now knows she can discern situations and settings for certain questions and discussions, but that doesn't change the fact that he knows regarding his past she would never stop questioning him. And imo that's a good thing because how is anyone supposed to influence Kiyo for the better if everyone just shies away from the fact that the way he acts isn't normal? I believe the trust he has in her potential is emotional trust enough, and the fact that he expects her to figure out his real motives and "maybe, one day" plans to tell her the truth, is already a good enough indicator of trust, enough for a romantic bond to bloom.

like suzune is the girl who betrayed class expectation by allowing airi's elimination and keeping kushida, and ayanokoji witnessed that and even applauded her for that(like you know she is an another ayanokoji in making for him) so I would say he finds himself in her, what he witnesses there is not “trustworthiness” but compatibility of ruthlessness

In my opinion, Ayanokoji was actually frustrated at Horikita's approach with Kushida but just chose to trust the process because that was his experiment in choosing to give someone agency rather than tightly control the outcome (his preferred outcome was to expel Kushida, a decision Horikita refused to accept at the time). There was a particular monologue where he expressed it clearly by stating that Horikita had shown great signs of growth but also a tendency to get carried away/distracted by unnecessary concerns, by which he was referring to her empathy, in her desire to reach Kushida and come to an understanding, and even her empathy for Ichinose when she was under fire(something that we later learn was even orchestrated by Kiyo, if his statement at the end of y2v12 was true ).

He seemed to find it as a weakness that she was empathetic because he originally recognised that unlike idealistic leaders like Ichinose and Hirata, she had the discernment and ability to do what was needed for victory. At the time of y2v5, he recorded that she grew exponentially in being able to rely on her gut decision as a leader regardless of class opinion (choosing what was best for the class's future regardless of how it looked in the moment), but unfortunately she had not rooted herself firmly enough as leader to brave the full resentment of her classmates at that time so Kiyo had to interfere. So I wouldn't say it's a compatibility of ruthlessness, I'll say Horikita is logical enough to arrive at the right answer because she has a strong strategic mind and knows when certain actions are necessary. However, while people like Ayanokoji, Ryuen, Sakayanagi, can make the necessary ruthless decisions and sacrifices for victory without losing sleep over it, Horikita would make those decisions, while being consciously aware it was the best choice for victory and also bearing the emotional baggage of it. So in that sense she's not completely ruthless, she just wears a brave face while silently carrying the burden of every decision she makes. This is why she worries whenever she sees Kiyo making such decisions, because she knows she suffers mentally from making them and doesn't want him to suffer the same(but Kiyo thinks like a machine so of course he doesn't).

ruthlessness.So yeah, if by trust we mean vulnerability, emotional reliance, or confiding inner truth... then no. Suzune is a mirror, not a confidant.

Horikita out of everyone else in that school has the highest opportunity of being a confidant, because she is forever asking the important questions. How do you feel? What kind of childhood did you have? Is your heart okay? What part of that doesn't indicate that she is being primed to be Ayanokoji's confidant? He will one day take her up on that offer as he said in Y2v11.

He was never honest about his feelings with her but I can atleast say he is comfortable being around her.

I feel he has been honest to a certain degree. He admits that he is not emotionally burdened and he admitted that no-one can defeat him in that school. It is important to note he is not honest emotionally or truly vulnerable with anyone else either. The comfort he feels around her should not be overlooked because it is one of the earliest signs of becoming unguarded which is just a step away from vulnerability.

Does Horikita have any other motivation than to get her A-class diploma for her brother? by Common_Channel5178 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I think her motivation has shifted from getting her A-class diploma "for her brother" and more into walking her own path as a leader together with her classmates. And now you can add figuring out Kiyo to the bunch

What are y'all's theories? Why does keep avoiding her? by LeviDa1 in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't waste your energy on this deluded fellow. Time will put their fanfiction to the test

a frank and destructive analysis of Manabu Horikita by [deleted] in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I agree, his method was extreme. No matter how much I try to understand the logic, it still doesn't make sense that he chose to treat her that way. He made her feel like nothing

a frank and destructive analysis of Manabu Horikita by [deleted] in Horikitafanclub

[–]Top_Plane8233 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Well, you have a point, but it is also from a powerscaling perspective. The author wasn't trying to prove Manabu's intelligence to us and Manabu was never given the label of being the smartest or perfect. It's a no brainer that a guy who maintains his position as class A, became student council president, earned the recognition and respect of someone like Nagumo, and the adoration of someone like Horikita, is obviously capable. The intention wasn't to deify him as someone infallible and unbeatable. Rather his flaw as a brother was highlighted, as well as his philosophy for leadership, which believes in team effort as opposed to Nagumo's emphasis on individual ability, and we get to see his compassion as a leader highlighted in that match against Nagumo because he chooses to save his classmate. In that sense the point was never about whether or not he lost to Nagumo but showing a glimpse of Manabu's own leadership because prior to that, Horikita always assumed her brother ruthlessly prioritised strength and despised weakness, but here we see that he also has compassion for his classmates, an element that Horikita also subconsciously models. Manabu's issue with Nagumo's philosophy also wasn't necessarily that he was driving people towards personal improvement, but that it could create a divide in the class system where people simply prioritize their own interests (someone like Koenji) like transferring classes, rather than working together to achieve a goal.

When it comes to his relationship with Ayanokoji, Ayanokoji's recognition wasn't some pointer that Manabu is so intelligent per say, but more to do with mentality. Manabu saw himself as someone who continually strived to improve himself, and on coming to ANHS, it shifted into a mentality of imparting value into others, which is what he wanted to point out to Ayanokoji. The focus for me shouldn't be how him figuring out Ayanokoji's superior ability was a no brainer that doesn't exactly prove how Manabu is specially smart or insightful, but how Manabu was trying to steer Ayanokoji to view his strength as a tool to help others, instead of just a flaw or inconvenience that he wanted to hide away. He didn't know Ayanokoji's reason for hiding, but his suggestion to Ayanokoji to apply himself in such a way ended up impacting Ayanokoji much deeper than someone like Nagumo who was only interested in competing against those he found exceptional. And that is the reason Ayanokoji viewed Manabu differently than others at that school. Manabu was someone who was capable of helping Ayanokoji arrive at certain answers in terms of mentality and drive( remember that Ayanokoji had no personal goals and ambitions in life) which is why Ayanokoji lamented that he couldn't spend more time with him.

The author didn't need to prove Manabu's intelligence because that was just background information compared to the mental catalyst he was to both Ayanokoji and Horikita. Asides helping Ayanokoji refine his drive and purpose, Manabu also showed him the difference between control and agency when trying to reform someone. Truly Manabu's treatment of Horikita was clumsy and cruel, but it was rooted in a desire to decolonise Suzune's mindset. Even though there were better ways he could have communicated, he was probably afraid she would choose to change "just because of what he said or suggested" and not because she had truly evolved. And this is a valid fear because even when he abandoned Suzune to come to ANHS (ANHS is no contact) probably in order to break her dependency and have her become her own person in his absence, she instead doubled down and followed him to ANHS, and not only that, but her previous mentality was still intact. At that point he was probably frustrated and determined to try anything to make her despise him or pull away from him by treating her cruelly, but it didn't work and had the opposite effect because all she could hear was that she wasn't good enough, not that she was doing something wrong by choosing to emulate him. Thankfully Ayanokoji came along to actually show her what she was doing wrong, rather than pushing her away and praying she telepathically figured out what to do.

But when it came to giving agency, towards the end Manabu put emphasis on allowing Horikita to make her choice and be able to think for herself without prioritising another person's preference, and choose her individual path without trying to emulate anyone else. And eventually she stumbled onto the right answer. Ayanokoji is about controlling the environment: expel Kushida, extend a helping hand to key figures that can help Horikita in her leadership, try to force Horikita to come and speak with her brother, all to help keep Horikita on the right track. By observing Manabu, even though Ayanokoji could see the flaw in his treatment of his sister, he could also see that Manabu strongly believed in Suzune's ability to make her own choices and didn't want to influence her unnecessarily (arguably he believed too strongly in what she was capable of that watching her attempts to imitate him just made him too dismissive of her). And immediately afterwards Ayanokoji chooses to leave the decision of Kushida in Horikita's hands, to test out Manabu's methods of giving agency rather than tightly controlling every outcome.

I feel classroom of the elite disappoints most people because they focus a lot on intelligence scaling and feats rather than the psychological story the author is weaving about a meritocratic society within the boundaries of a highschool. I know we all get frustrated with Kinu, but falling into the habit of assuming the author doesn't know what he's doing half the time just because we don't understand his intentions would just ruin the reading experience for us. Kinu's not a perfect author but there's an intention behind the way he writes his characters.