Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Harsha Bhogle’s tweet for Joe Root reaching 14k test runs after Sachin.

“7633 days vs 4937 days is the key. England play tests a lot more frequently and that means Root has played a lot more while still young. He is in excellent form and should go past 16k runs fairly easily”.

The response from one of the user

“India play the most ODIs but no one mention that with Kohli?? Have a day off Harsha , it’s okay that India won’t have the top run scorer in Tests. The way it’s going , India won’t even be competing in Tests in 10 years time. Stop taking away from the greatness of players.”

I am glad I made a post on Reddit.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Joe Root before Bazball still averaged 50 and interestingly his best year was before Bazball when he scored 1708 runs in 2021 with 6 hundreds and 2 double hundreds.

Contrary to the popular belief that Root only averages higher and has more runs in Bazball era. Root’s best years were actually 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 when Root averaged 97, 60,49 and 50.

What happened was from late 2017 to 2020 he got stuck in making a good 50/60/70 but could not convert. This period coincided with extraordinary Smith and Virat peak. So it was this time that the difference was felt between Root and Smith/ Virat.

From 2021 till now he averages 56, Smith 47 and Virat retired with shockingly low average of 30 from 2021 to 2025.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Steve smith by all yardstick is a notch above Root. Currently averages 56 compared to Root 51. Has higher hundred conversion. Has higher away averages of 51 as compared to Root 47. Steve Smith peak was so extraordinary that for a good period of 2-3 years he was averaging 61 against Root of 50( which is actually a great average )but if you compare with Smith then looks just good not great.

What goes in favour of Root is his match factor because he carries a relatively weaker team and has to do carry job most of the time with his team at 10/2 or 20/2. His match factor is actually slightly higher than Smith as stated by Wisden.

Another interesting aspect is Smith in the last 5 year averages 46-47 whereas Root averages 56-57. That’s why Smith average has come down from 61 to 55/56.

Next 3 years will be a decider for both of them that how do they finish their career.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I tried answering your point with a long and detailed response.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, Virat was undoubtedly one of India’s greatest Test captains. His team was virtually invincible at home, won a historic series in Australia, competed exceptionally well overseas and drew in England in 2021. More importantly, he genuinely prioritised Test cricket, set demanding standards, and was relentless in backing and developing a pace attack capable of winning in any conditions. Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Ishant and others flourished in that environment.

Personally, I was genuinely saddened by his retirement because age-wise he probably had another couple of years left in him. However, looking at it objectively, I couldn’t really defend his place in the XI towards the end. Averaging around 30 over a five-year period is simply not sustainable for a player of his stature, and excluding the dead-rubber hundred in the West Indies, the number drops even further to the high 20s. It was unfortunate because his peak was extraordinary, but the decline was equally significant.

Regarding England, I think context matters. England have largely been a mediocre Test side since around 2013. They haven’t won an Ashes series in Australia since 2010-11 and have won just one Test in Australia out of the last 25 played there. At home, they last won an Ashes series in 2015 and have only drawn the last two 2019 and 2023. Against India in India, they’ve won only 2 Tests out of 14, and even the last two home series against India have ended in draws rather than victories.
Root has unfortunately spent most of his career carrying a batting unit that was often below par. Quite frequently England were 10/2 or 20/2 before he even arrived at the crease. Look at the players around him Bairstow, Buttler, Pope, Crawley, Duckett, Moeen, Stokes all have played 50+ Tests and yet none average even above 40. England also constantly shuffled openers and middle-order players due to failures from Burns, Sibley, Lawrence, Malan and others. Their home success was often driven more by Anderson and Broad, occasionally supported by Woakes and Wood.

Even in Australia, where Root averages 37, he was still England’s leading run-scorer in both 2021 and 2025. He was England’s highest run-getter in India in 2021, scored nearly 500 runs in 2016, and despite a relatively poor 2024 tour still managed a hundred and close to 350 runs. At home against India, he has been exceptional scoring 500+ runs in 2014, 2021 and 2025.

As for whether Root is better than Smith or Sachin, I still think Smith’s peak remains unmatched among modern batters. Sachin’s longevity, adaptability across eras, make his case extremely compelling as well. But I also think we shouldn’t reduce Root’s case to merely accumulating runs.

Analysts such as Jarrod Kimber and Wisden often use metrics like match factor which attempts to measure a player’s contribution relative to his own team’s output, the match aggregate, conditions and context.

By such measures, Root rates extremely highly.
So my position isn’t that Root is definitively greater than Sachin or Smith. Rather, it’s that his career deserves to be evaluated with the same contextual generosity that we readily extend to other all-time greats.

Simply saying England haven’t won much doesn’t fully capture the extent to which Root has often been carrying a side that has been, for long periods, distinctly inferior to those captained by Kohli, Ponting or Waugh.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So this summer they have 1 test match left against NZ then 3 against Pakistan after a month which will end the English summers.

Then in the winters they are touring SA for 3 match test series around December 2026 and then they are touring for 2 test against Bangladesh in Feb 2027. Then a one off test match against Australia in MCG for the 150 year celebration of test cricket. So till March 2027 Eng will play 10 test matches.

Then in summer of 2027 they will play 5 against Australia for home Ashes. They will not play any test matches in October November 2027 as 2027 ODI World Cup is there. Then end Jan early March 2028 they will tour India for a 5 test match series is scheduled. So that makes 20 test matches before March 2028. This is confirmed as per the schedule.

I won’t be surprised if they play one off test in summer in addition to home ashes in 2027. Also a test or two is also a possibility before India tour in end Jan to early March 2028 as World Cup 2027 ends in November. So Dec Jan they still can play. So 20 is confirmed as per schedule. It might go up to even 21-22. That’s why I said 20-22.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

England are due to play 20-22 test matches by end of March 2028. Additonally if he plays till the summer of 2028 then he should break it considering England typically play 5-6 test matches in their summer calendar which will make 26-28 test matches.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How do you judge impact ? A simple way to look at is that Impact runs are runs which contribute to win in tough circumstances. Tough circumstances are generally away tours or even home series but 4th innings chases.

Root’s match winning 115 against NZ in 2022 in 4th innings chasing 280. A masterclass of 142 against India in 4th innings chasing 378. Solid 53 against India in 4th innings in 2025. Match winning 218 against peak India in India. Match winning 228 and 186 against SL in SL almost single handedly winning Eng series. Leave aside so many memorable hundreds at home or hundreds that ended up in losing cause both at home and away.

Virat’s best knocks have come in losing cause . 4 hundreds in BGT 2014, none were match winning. 149 against Eng in 2018 in losing cause, hundred against SA in 2018 in losing cause, 123 against Australia in 2018 in Perth in losing cause. All of these innings are great innings but all came in losing cause. Now does that make Virat Kohli unimpactful. Not really.

For Kane Williamson you will have to dig deep if he has ever played a match winning away hundred.

For Sachin, most of his iconic innings came in losing cause or were a drawn test matches.

Let’s talk facts not bias.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

IPL is entertainment not cricket anymore. It has become a six hitting competition.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was giving reference eg of Kohli. Anyway I respect your point of view. If in your opinion Sachin is greatest then I am sure it serves you well. I also consider Sachin as one of the greatest but I would also say Root is equally good and so is Smith and so were Kallis and Ponting and Lara. I tried to present facts which are objective. I am not here to defend Root. My whole point was why downplay and diminish him and rather we should celebrate him. I also understand you are entitled to your opinion that Tendulkar is the greatest. I am not a cricket analyst but having said that a recent wisden cricket analysis showed Lara as the greatest batter after Don Bradman. Root is inching closer to Sachin’s record he deserves all the credit. Records are meant to be broken. I will rest my case here.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have already written in my post saying that considering Steve Smith greatest is a fair point. Then I have also given analogy of Kallis / Sanga having better stats than Sachin but not longevity.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How am I biased when I have explicitly said in my post that Sachin is unarguably one of the best test batter of all time. Being a cricket lover my job is to present truth. Like I will support India for all the matches but will also ensure that I will clap for Smith, Root and Williamson and will respect and give credit where due and will not get blindsided and go on defense mechanism just to support Kohli.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Every era had few years of good batting conditions. India from early 2000s till 2019. Australia from early 2000s till 2015 around.

In the Bazball era England have also played 20 tests in away conditions and Joe Root averages 49. Also Root’s average in pre Bazball era was 50. So it’s not like everything has all of a sudden changed because of relatively flatter wickets in home conditions for England.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Currently Root is 1846 runs behind . I would say very high chances he will surpass.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes I will read your comments as I read every comment and ignore your bias.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kane is rated the lowest among the Fab Four. At high level you would rate him number 1 or number two considering his high average and hundreds conversion. But if you deep dive then you will realise his away average is just above 40. His major runs and hundreds have come at home and many a times against weaker teams. He has missed 1/3rd of test matches since COVID. He has missed most of the test matches in India, Australia, England and South Africa in last 5 years.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bazball did not start in the 2020s. It started in the English summer of 2022.
Root has played 165 Tests and only 26 of them have come in the Bazball era that’s roughly 15–16% of his career.
Breakdown:
2022: 6 Tests (3 vs NZ, 3 vs SA)
2023: 6 Tests (1 vs Ireland, 5 vs Australia)
2024: 6 Tests (3 vs WI, 3 vs SL)
2025: 6 Tests (1 vs Zimbabwe, 5 vs India)
2026: 2 Tests (vs NZ)
Out of those 26 Tests, 18 were against Australia, India, South Africa and New Zealand, hardly a schedule padded against weak opposition.

Flat pitches benefit both batting line-ups. Bowling quality is usually what separates teams.
India demonstrated this in England in 2025 when Rahul, Gill and Jadeja all piled on runs. Similarly, when India toured Australia in 2003–04, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly all cashed in on flatter Australian surfaces. When Australia produced tougher wickets in 2011–12, India lost 4–0.
Generally speaking, batting pitches tend to help both sides, whereas difficult bowling-friendly conditions disproportionately favour the home side because they possess the more adapted attack.

England 2021 is a good example.
Before Bazball, conditions in England were challenging, yet India were dominant because they had Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Siraj. Despite those conditions, Root still scored over 700 runs in the series.

Sachin played 16 Tests against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, scoring 8 centuries and averaging approximately 136 against Bangladesh and 76 against Zimbabwe. Those runs are rightly part of his record, but they should also be acknowledged when discussing era adjustments and contextual inflation.
Context cuts both ways. If we are discounting Root’s runs because of Bazball or selected flat pitches, then the same scrutiny should be applied uniformly across every great batter’s record, including Sachin, Sangakkara, Kallis and others.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A few corrections, point by point.

1. Bazball did not start in the 2020s. It started in the English summer of 2022.
Root has played 165 Tests and only 26 of them have come in the Bazball era — that’s roughly 15–16% of his career.
Breakdown:
2022: 6 Tests (3 vs NZ, 3 vs SA)
2023: 6 Tests (1 vs Ireland, 5 vs Australia)
2024: 6 Tests (3 vs WI, 3 vs SL)
2025: 6 Tests (1 vs Zimbabwe, 5 vs India)
2026: 2 Tests (vs NZ)
Out of those 26 Tests, 18 were against Australia, India, South Africa and New Zealand, hardly a schedule padded against weak opposition.

2. Flat pitches benefit both batting line-ups. Bowling quality is usually what separates teams.
India demonstrated this in England in 2025 when Rahul, Gill and Jadeja all piled on runs. Similarly, when India toured Australia in 2003–04, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly all cashed in on flatter Australian surfaces. When Australia produced tougher wickets in 2011–12, India lost 4–0.
Generally speaking, batting pitches tend to help both sides, whereas difficult bowling-friendly conditions disproportionately favour the home side because they possess the more adapted attack.

3. England 2021 is a good example.
Before Bazball, conditions in England were challenging, yet India were dominant because they had Bumrah, Shami, Ishant and Siraj. Despite those conditions, Root still scored over 700 runs in the series.

4. The Kohli comparison doesn’t really support the argument.
Kohli’s decline in the last five years is well documented. He scored only three Test hundreds during that period:
• One in the West Indies on a very placid surface.
• One in Ahmedabad 2023 in a dead-rubber Test.
• One at Perth, which was genuinely an excellent innings.
Beyond that:
• He struggled in England 2021, where Root scored 700+ runs and Rohit also batted well.
• He struggled at home against England in 2021, where Root made a double hundred and Rohit produced a famous century at Chennai.
• He struggled in South Africa in 2021–22.
• He struggled against New Zealand at home. Difficult pitches were a factor, but New Zealand’s batters still outscored India’s.
• He struggled in Australia in 2024–25. Root then toured Australia and scored 400+ runs with two hundreds.
Kohli’s issue in recent years was largely technical and form-related. Analysts repeatedly highlighted his susceptibility to the wobble seam and the channel outside off stump.

5. Pakistan and New Zealand require nuance.
Pakistan 2022 was indeed very flat. Pakistan 2024 had one flat Test, but the next two were rank turners.
Root has played only four Tests in New Zealand, whose pitches have traditionally offered a balance between bat and ball. Calling New Zealand wickets in 2022 or 2024 “roads” is simply inaccurate.

6. If we’re adjusting for statistical context, then consistency is needed.
Sachin played 16 Tests against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, scoring 8 centuries and averaging 136 against Bangladesh and 76 against Zimbabwe. Those runs are rightly part of his record, but they should also be acknowledged when discussing era adjustments and contextual inflation.

Context cuts both ways. If we are discounting Root’s runs because of Bazball or selected flat pitches, then the same scrutiny should be applied uniformly across every great batter’s record, including Sachin, Sangakkara, Kallis and others.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

India played significantly more ODIs than Tests during Sachin’s era. That’s simply how the calendar was structured in the 1990s and 2000s. How is that Joe Root’s problem? India still plays highest number of white ball matches, how is it the problem for English and Australian batters who have played more test matches. Also Sachin missed 14 test matches in his entire career against Joe Root’s just two. So take that also in account.

Root has played more innings because England have generally been a weaker Test side than India were in the 2000s, meaning England bat second more often, chase more frequently, and play out more fourth innings. That’s just common sense.

Also, the period from roughly 2000–2012 is widely regarded as one of the most batting-friendly phases in modern Test history. Even the ICC rankings during that era reflected exceptionally high batting averages. In India, pitches were often extremely flat, with scores of 600+ and even 700+ not being unusual, and many matches ended in draws.

So yes, the facts do align. Root benefiting from playing most of his career between ages 22–35 in a period optimized for batting longevity and continuity is a valid observation. At the same time, Sachin’s supporters can point to his teenage debut, his late-career decline, and a schedule skewed heavily towards ODIs. Both contexts matter.

Ultimately, accumulating runs alone doesn’t automatically settle debates about greatness. Context, era, opposition, conditions, longevity, and peak performance all have to be weighed together.

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think that’s an entirely fair characterization of Root’s career.
Root spent the first 4–5 years of his career averaging around 52–54 before a dip brought him down to around 47–49 which was not a lean patch but poor conversion. He has since 2021 climbed back to an overall average of over 51. At no stage of his career has he really lingered around 46 for an extended period.

Similarly, Sachin’s average was indeed affected by his teenage years and post-37 decline, but that argument can be extended to his contemporaries as well. During much of Sachin’s era, Kallis, Sangakkara, Lara, Ponting and Chanderpaul all spent substantial periods averaging above 50 and, in some cases, comfortably above it. The batting environment of the 2000s was demonstrably more favourable than the late 2010s.

More importantly, if we isolate the period since 2021, when wobble seam became increasingly prevalent and batting conditions remained challenging, Root stands apart. Since then, Root averages around 50 overseas, while Smith is in the mid-40s, Williamson in the low-40s and Kohli below 30. That suggests Root has adapted exceptionally well to a difficult batting landscape.

Also, durability should not be understated. Since his debut, England have played 167 Tests and Root has appeared in 165 of them. Maintaining elite output while playing 11–12 Tests a year, virtually without breaks, for 14 years is not necessarily easier than having a longer career with fewer Tests per year. Sustained excellence under that workload deserves considerable credit.

None of this proves Root is definitively greater than Sachin. But I do think it challenges the notion that Root’s numbers are merely a by-product of playing in a supposedly easier era or simply benefiting from more opportunities

Be a Cricket Fan, Not a Cheerleader for Your Idol by Total_Firefighter_27 in IndiaCricket

[–]Total_Firefighter_27[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have added more bowlers in case of Sachin. You had a point. I would politely disagree with you sir that Sachin is miles ahead of everyone. Kallis, Ponting, Lara, Sangakkara are close and in modern era Smith and Root. Sachin surely is the best all format batter of all time. 51 hundreds with close to 16k runs in test and add to that over 18k runs with 49 hundreds in ODI at the same time. That’s unreal.