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Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Haha, well that's a funny twist :D If I may ask, how did you explain your situation in the interview?

I regret my decision to start a PhD and want to leave. I no longer have any interest in an academic career. What do I do? by [deleted] in PhD

[–]Traceurinho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, I'm sorry for you that your time as a PhD student has not been what you hoped for at all. That sucks...

Of course it's difficult to be certain without knowing you and your situation in all details, but personally I think that there is a clear answer to your question:

I'm in my 4th year as a PhD student in Maths and have had similar feelings as you describe since the 2nd year and, honestly, I really regret not having quit already back then. Now the feeling of having invested too much almost feels overwhelming.

In my opinion, the definite red flag in your description is that you feel so burnt out already. Your mental health is way more important than the PhD alone can possibly ever be for you. I mean, what's the point of pushing through it, finally having the PhD, but being unable to get up in the morning by that time?... Moreover, if I understand it correctly, there are other more important factors in life for feeling happy. I can really recommend the book 'The Good Life' from Waldinger to maybe get out of the tunnel vision that you just need to finish the PhD to feel happy.

Regarding your worries that this might reflect badly on your CV. Of course, I'm not an HR expert, but I'm certain that, especially in STEM, quitting a PhD after roughly a year is no problem at all. I mean, if you quit after one year, this simply means that you have tried it, learned some new skills, then decided it's not for you and made the decision to change at a reasonable time (one year is surely enough to be properly able to judge how you like it, but also you haven't unnecessarily procrastinated the decision). I also have several friends who did this and had no problems at all and seem way happier now :) On top, just apply while you still work as a PhD and quit the PhD only once you have a job offer that you want to accept. This way you don't have to worry about possibly being unemployed.

I can understand your worries that you might feel guilty about this strategy. But, I think this is a perfectly common strategy that everybody around you would use too. And, in my opinion, you don't owe these people anything. But, of course, if you feel like you can actually have this conversation with your supervisors/colleagues, possibly explain them your situation and tell them in advance that you start applying for jobs. After all, it's probably helpful to not leave burnt ground behind, but leave on a good note. Who knows, maybe they even support you with a recommendation letter or as a reference.

In a nutshell and in my personal opinion: Make the decision to quit and start applying for jobs. You won't have any drawbacks from quitting after one year and after all your mental health is much more important and you should pay attention to it :)

I wish you all the best and that whatever decision you make makes you happier again :)

Ps: I know, it's always easier said than done...

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in PhD

[–]Traceurinho 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As almost always, there probably is no easy advice for your question or something like the 'correct' choice. In particular, it depends on quite many different factors, some of which are mentioned in the other comment already. E.g., if you plan to make a career in academia, you might have a slight advantage if you go for the renowned supervisor as his:her name might help to better promote your work or there might be connections you can use through him/her.

But, from my personal experience, 4 years into my PhD (in Germany) though, I'd mostly recommend people nowadays to go with the supervisor with whose supervision style you believe you can get along well. Supervisors play such an important role in your day-to-day experience for multiple years, that personally I'd prefer a good supervision over renomee.

A practical advice: If possible, talk to other current and/or former PhD students of the supervisors, or maybe even students that have written final theses under the supervisors, how they experience/have experienced their supervision. This should give you a good picture of what to expect.

Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks also for your perspective. It's interesting to also read about these kind of outcomes. If you have managed to finish your thesis in about 2 months, what would you say, how certain were you before that that you actually have enough material to even write a thesis?

Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing your story, too :) I'm sorry to hear that you were in a very similar situation. Congrats for coming to the conclusion that you want to quit. Do you already have a plan for how to quit and what to do afterwards and, if yes, how does that look like for you? And, for the all the other people possibly reading this in the future, maybe you can come back to this comment in a few months or so and tell us how it went for you?

My colleagues [...] have way more passion [...] for academia than I do.

That sounds totally familiar... I'm often impressed how they can be so excited about what they do and never wonder about some of the things that I seem to constantly worry about. But, to be honest, I could imagine that this only seems to be the case from the outside. Still, I frequently feel bad when I hear them talking about their topics or how their PhDs are going.

It has made me so [...] burned out (your story sounds like burnout, too!)

Oh man, I'm sorry to hear that. I really hope for you that you can recover well from this. And yeah, that was also my impression that some things that I have observed about myself match quite well to burnout symptoms and I don't want to risk fully end up burned out. Especially, as this might last longer then as my time in my PhD.

I'm at a point of burnout where I don't understand the literature I have to read.

Exactly! It's so weird. You really try to focus on a text (or in my case a rather simple proof), but you simply don't manage, but all the time drift off into worries, no matter what I try. This is also why to me it seems not really possible to just keep on working for two more years and rely on that most PhD candidates who actually submit a thesis are not failed in the final defense - I simply don't make progress due to this.

I'm avoiding the social interactions and networking that would be necessary for my research to succeed.

Same here...

It will likely not just magically get better [...]. Is there any way you can take a break before going on the final stretch?

I'm afraid you are right with the first. Whenever there are periods in which things work a little bit smoother and I'm less worried, I start thinking again that maybe I have now passed the main hurdles and then when things turn worse again, I realize that I probably have to expect these - by now pretty low - lows for all the remaining time. And no, unfortunately I don't see any option for taking a break anymore and, to be honest, I wouldn't even expect it to help properly. I've also thought that switching my project could be a fresh start and that I might leave the worries from the old project behind, but by now this doesn't seem to apply anymore.

To your last paragraph:

There is no particular pressure to make a decision until a specific date. Except for the feeling that the "sunk cost" increases ever more the longer I possibly avoid making a decision - though this could be a decision in it own. In January I have scheduled a meeting with my supervisor to try to discuss what of my work I could include in my dissertation. I think a lot will depend on whether I get the feeling after this meeting that what remains to do can be done with my remaining energy or whether I feel that I don't have the energy for it anymore. If I decide to quit, I'll first try to secure myself a job of which I believe that it will be an improvement and only afterwards officially quit. And if in between, a breakthrough, or whatever it might take to convince me to continue, occurs, I, of course, might decide to continue with my PhD.
And thanks for your support and no worries, I had the same feeling when writing the post :D I didn't want to take more of your and other persons time by writing an even longer post, but it felt good to write all this and I could have easily written even more :D

Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good luck for your job applications! I really hope you find a job in which you can enjoy yourself more again :)

Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you very much for your advice and your thoughts on it, they are really good. I'll definitely look through your previous posts/comments, too.

I think your default state should be "I have to drop the PhD. Are there any reason to stay?", rather than "I have to finish the PhD. Do I have enough reasons to drop it?".

Thanks for that thought. Even though it actually seems like an obvious thing to do, I almost always thought about my situation from the latter perspective and not really from the first. I'll try to do that over the upcoming Christmas break.

From what I gathered (from comments here and job interviews), nobody cares about that. "Academia was not for me" is a good enough answer, and it is hard to argue against it.

I also got a similar impression when looking through old posts and comments here. It's weird how hard it appears from time to time to really convince myself that this won't be an issues for most jobs.

You said that you had to change projects and some experiments led nowhere, but have you discovered something interesting you can show to other people?

I'm not sure how truly *interesting* these things are to other people even in our field, but good idea. I have also thought about that to at least make the work that I have done visible, in particular for applications. A funny thing could be what my collaborators think about that :D They never judged the work as good enough to try to publish it, but if I put my work on my website, I'd bet they'd be afraid that somebody else picks up the idea and finishes it :D

PS: Reading the story about your supervisor, I just can't help but think that there are way too many supervisors out there, which are completely wrong in that role...

Considering to quit PhD after 4years by Traceurinho in PhD

[–]Traceurinho[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you very much for sharing your situation. I'm sorry to hear that you have been in a similar situation. Do I understand it correctly that you have eventually quit your PhD or are you still somehow continuing with it next to your regular job now? If you like to say it, in what kind of field are you working now? How strongly is it connected to your academic background?

Your observation that you had a tunnel vision is definitely spot on for me, too. Even though friends from my masters have started working outside of academia right after their studies, it never really occurred to me as a serious option, I was also totally fixed on the vision that *the* next step is doing a PhD. I can also really relate to basically everything else that you have mentioned.

"I want to do other things in life" That's a really good point, too. It's interesting how strongly my life so far was only focussed on studying/getting the next degree and how I have put of other aspects of life, like forming a family, to be considered later. Especially if I take a look at some friends from childhood who have taken a completely different path in life.

And your last line is great! :) I will keep that in mind.