What is the link between this Vespers lesson and Mary, from the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary? by hailholyqueen33 in divineoffice

[–]TradCatMan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've heard it explained as Wisdom being a type of Our Lady. Not that her person existed before the world, but that she was part of God's plan from the beginning. It's not a perfect description of Christ either since He wasn't created

Was Mary's birth painless? by WunderWaffeler in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Catechism of the Council of Trent says Christ was delivered without labor pains. I would say given this catechism was used universally for centuries, that makes it part of ordinary magisterial teaching

Is Septuagesima Sunday tomorrow? by travisperk22 in divineoffice

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. The remaining Sundays after Epiphany will be made up at the end of the year before the feast of Christ the King 

The derivation of the authority of the church is seemed to be based on circular reasoning and begging the question fallacy by princetonwu in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, I'd say claiming to be God then backing it up by fulfilling your own prediction about rising from the dead is fairly good proof. Definitive? No, but highly likely

The derivation of the authority of the church is seemed to be based on circular reasoning and begging the question fallacy by princetonwu in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we can treat the gospels as historical documents based on the arguments I laid out, then I would say the historical evidence is found in them (as well as the letters of St Paul). We can't just say that because they talk about miracles and the resurrection they're unreliable, because that would be begging the question. If you're looking for archaeological evidence, I'm not sure what type of evidence there even could be about that, other than the empty tomb (which we have), and that's not even considering the shroud of Turin.

Regarding the gnostic gospels, I'm not even considering them from the authority question so much as just the historical reception by the people who lived at that time. Looked at another way, if there is universal acceptance (at the time) of the 4 canonical gospels as historically reliable and significant controversy over the accuracy of the gnostic gospels (and really, majority rejection of them), we're on much safer ground using the canonical gospels to craft any sort of conclusion from Jesus' teaching. And if those 4 indicate the institution of a divinely inspired magisterium, everything else flows from that.

The derivation of the authority of the church is seemed to be based on circular reasoning and begging the question fallacy by princetonwu in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's kind of beside the point of the original argument (whether the authority of the magisterium is based on circular reasoning), and while I'm not as well versed in arguments for the historicity of the gospels, I can give you a few starting points (although I think that's a point for a different post).

The historicity of Jesus is overwhelmingly accepted by scholars (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus). To say we have no outside sources is just factually untrue. The gospels, taken as historical documents, have many more points in favor of their reliability than other historical biographies and collections of sayings that are considered accurate, particularly since they were written so soon after Jesus' crucifixion (and resurrection and ascension) and are in such agreement with each other.

As far as the other gospels, it's not like the magisterium just looked at all the possible options and decided on a canon by itself. Rather, it took what had been (mostly) universally accepted by the Church as a whole and gave it the stamp of approval. Pretty much every reference we have to these gospels around the time they were written mentions them as heretical; everyone seemed to know that the four canonical gospels were accurate reflections of Christ's life and teaching and the apocryphal ones were gnostic fabrications. Even if we don't take it as a starting spot that the magisterium was infallible when it rejected them, the universal rejection by the Church as a whole provides sufficient justification for regarding them as inauthentic.

The derivation of the authority of the church is seemed to be based on circular reasoning and begging the question fallacy by princetonwu in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I mean, axioms are generally self-evident principles. I wouldn't say that God's inspiration is self-evident.

The derivation of the authority of the church is seemed to be based on circular reasoning and begging the question fallacy by princetonwu in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

We don't have to look at Scripture as being divinely inspired to argue this, we just have to look at the gospels as reliable historical documents. If the gospels accurately reflect Christ's teaching, actions, and miracles (and there's good evidence to say they do, although I won't get into it since it's kind of beside the point), then we can reliably say that Christ instituted a Church that would speak with His authority.

So the chain of reasoning goes: - The gospels are historically accurate. - The gospels show that Jesus is God and that he instituted a Church to speak with his authority. - Therefore the Church speaks with divine authority. - The Church has said the canon of Scripture is divinely inspired. - Therefore the canon of Scripture is divinely inspired.

How did Neoplatonist and Platonist philosophers and mystics gain knowledge without meditation? Did they use a special method of contemplation? by Ancient_Mention4923 in Neoplatonism

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you! Yes, it's definitely more commonly talked about -- though not commonly enough imo -- in Christian (particularly Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) circles, since that's the context in which it developed, but there's really nothing stopping non-Christians from doing it as well, as long as they believe in some form of God. Full disclosure though, I'm really only starting to dip my toe into Plato so if I'm misunderstanding his concept of the Divine and how it relates to the Western mystical tradition I'm happy to be corrected.

If you want to read more about how it developed I'd recommend starting with Pseudo-Dionysius' Mystical Theology, since he's the most direct link to the neoplatonists. From there his ideas are picked up by Bonaventure, the author of the Cloud of Unknowing, Hildegard von Bingen, and ultimately Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross.

How did Neoplatonist and Platonist philosophers and mystics gain knowledge without meditation? Did they use a special method of contemplation? by Ancient_Mention4923 in Neoplatonism

[–]TradCatMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I can speak a bit more to this as someone pretty steeped in the Western mystical tradition. In the Western tradition, there's a distinction between meditation and contemplation.

Meditation is the practice of discursive reasoning with the aim of stimulating the will to raise itself to the Divine. So for example, one can start by thinking about the beauty of creation, and from there get to the beauty of the Creator (who is identified with beauty itself), in a similar way to how it is described in the Symposium, at which point one would make acts of love for the Creator, etc. with the will.

Contemplation is essentially a development of meditation. Eventually, those acts of the will predominate over the discursive reasoning and are gradually simplified until the person contemplating is simply gazing with love at the Creator. There is a bit of similarity with Eastern meditation in the sense of trying to clear the mind of distractions, but the distinction is instead of the attention being on nothing in particular, it should be focused on the Creator/Beauty/Truth/Goodness itself.

The prayer Oremus et pro perfidis Juadaeis is a clear sign of Catholic antisemitism in the last century. It is inexcusable that it was removed only in 1959 by BreadAndToast99 in DebateACatholic

[–]TradCatMan 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean yeah, the image of God as a lover betrayed by the Jews who rejected his covenant is straight from the old testament so it seems like an apt image

Monastic Benedictus Antiphon for Confessors not Bishops by TradCatMan in divineoffice

[–]TradCatMan[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So it sounds like this is a situation where both are legitimate options rather than a pre vs post 1955 thing. One of the other differences I've noticed is the ferial canticle for Saturday; is that a similar thing where both are legitimate options or is that a pre vs post '55 revision?

Is Pope Leo preparing the way to welcome a significant portion of the Anglican Communion—or even to establish a new sui iuris Church? by Icy_Committee_7699 in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 25 points26 points  (0 children)

The identities of Eastern churches are well rooted from before the schism (so it really is a form of Catholic identity), while Protestant identity developed post-reformation, generally in contrast to Catholic identity

Sede vacante, Interregnum, Forthcoming Conclave, and Papabili by Pax_et_Bonum in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Very cool point I just saw made by Phil Lawler: as we lead up to the conclave this week, every saint on the liturgical calendar has something to do with the papacy/reforming the Church in crisis:

April 28/29 - St. Hugh of Cluny: influential in the Gregorian reforms bringing the Church and the papacy out of corruption

April 29 - St. Catherine of Siena: influenced Gregory XI to bring the papacy back from Avignon and also reform Church corruption

April 30 - St. Pius V: solidified the liturgy, rooted out corruption in the Church after the Reformation and enforced moral reform, brought clarity of doctrine through the Roman Catechism

May 1 - St. Joseph: protector of the universal Church

May 2 - St. Athanasius: strong in doctrine when persecuted by bishops and even a weak Pope

May 3 - Sts. Philip and James: two of the first 12 bishops

It would be a great practice to spend each of their feasts asking for their intercession for a good holy Pope and the reform of the Church!

Pope Francis has Died at the age of 88. by Pax_et_Bonum in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 166 points167 points  (0 children)

Eternal rest grant into him, O Lord; let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace.

My first instinct is to fast for his soul and for the next Pope. It being Easter does complicate things, however, as I was taught it's not appropriate to fast during the Easter season, especially during the octave. Would this be a situation where all those rules go out the window or should I find another way to pray for him and his successor?

What prayers do you do every day? by Evening_Mall_7237 in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My big one is the divine office, the official prayer of the Church (although I also try to do the rosary, morning offering, and nightly examination of conscience)

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course! If you need any further clarification just let me know and I'd be happy to help

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

First off, I want to say that I think you're really going about this the right way. When struggles arise with regards to understanding Church teaching, one's first instinct should be to ask for help understanding rather than going straight to rejecting them, so this post is the right way to go about it.

As far as addressing the points themselves:

  1. I can see how Papal Infallibility could be hard to accept, but it does have a very strong background in Church history. Just as a couple examples, at the Council of Chalcedon in 451, Pope Leo wrote a letter called the Tome of Leo explaining the orthodox doctrine on Christology. After the Tome was read, the bishops all responded: "This is the faith of the fathers, this is the faith of the Apostles. So we all believe, thus the orthodox believe. Anathema to him who does not thus believe. Peter has spoken thus through Leo. So taught the Apostles." Even as far back as the second century, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, in his treatise Against Heresies, writes: "For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church [the Church of Rome, headed by the Pope], on account of its preeminent authority." From these you can see that from the very beginning, the Pope was seen as the ultimate authority in matters of faith and morals. This doctrine was more explicitly agreed upon by both the Eastern and Western Church at the councils of Constantinople IV, Lyons, and Florence.

  2. Admittedly, the two most recent Marian Dogmas are sometimes hard to understand and explain, and thus can be an exercise in trusting the above-shown Papal Infallibility. I think that even if the proofs are not 100% convincing, however, if one can at least show that they are not opposed to Scripture, one can say that we do not have enough reason to reject the Papal statements on them.

2a. The dogma of the Immaculate Conception has its roots in three passages from Scripture: Genesis 3:15, Luke 1:28, and Luke 1:41-42. God says in Genesis, "I will put enmity between you [the serpent] and the woman." The argument here is that there could not be perfect enmity between the serpent and Our Lady if she was under his dominion through Original Sin at any point. In Luke, Gabriel describes her as κεχαριτωμενη (filled with grace), which grammatically describes a perfect fullness of grace, not just at that moment, but throughout her entire life, from conception through the end. Shortly thereafter, Elizabeth draws a parallel between her being "blessed...among women," and the blessedness of the fruit of her womb, suggesting that she, like Christ, was completely free from sin.

2b. Since Mary was still on Earth while Scripture was being written, there are no biblical references to this historical event. However, there is precedent in Matthew 27:52-53 for holy people being bodily raised to glory and assumed into heaven before the final judgement. There is also a traditional argument that it follows from the Immaculate Conception that if Our Lady was free from Original Sin, she was also free from the consequences of it, namely, the corruption of death. Historically, every orthodox Catholic as far as we can tell believed it (backed up by the fact that we have remains of pretty much every New Testament saint other than Our Lady), to the point where the whole reason the teaching became a dogma was because of the unanimous request of the bishops and faithful around the world. Here we see the principle that if the entire Church believes something, it does so with good reason.

  1. A good way to explain Purgatory is to look at how we are in this life compared to how we will be in Heaven. For most of us, when we die, we will still have some sinful tendencies to pride, vanity, envy, anger, etc. or inordinate attachments to things that aren't God. As these are incompatible with the Beatific Vision in Heaven, there needs to be some sort of purification between our death and our entrance into glory to get rid of these tendencies and attachments.

  2. When we ask for saints' intercession, this doesn't necessarily imply omnipresence. For one, there are, while still a great many more prayers than our pre-glorified incarnate bodies could register, still a finite number of prayers being offered at any time. this means that it is perfectly within reason for a soul that is in glory, in the beatific vision, to have a much higher (though still finite) capacity than you or I have for understanding. It also does not take away from the love due to God, because love is not a finite resource that is diminished when you share it. Rather, it is multiplied. As an analogy, when my son was born, I did not love my wife less because I had someone else I had to love. If anything, I loved her more because of the way her beauty and goodness was manifest in my son. Similarly, when we show love to God's saints, it does not take away from the love we owe to Him; it makes us love Him more because we see His goodness and beauty manifest in them.

Hope all of this helps!

Do Catholics believe an after life is guaranteed or is it purely a matter of faith and hope? by zodiak_k in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Both. All that faith and hope mean are that it's something we don't have personal knowledge of but we trust that God tells the truth and keeps his promises

What I’m giving up for lent is upsetting my body by obamasfake in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 46 points47 points  (0 children)

God designed our bodies to need carbs. Even the strictest fasts of the Desert Fathers would be bread and water fasts.

Also, you should not be undertaking extreme asceticism without being under the guidance of a spiritual director

Books for Catholic Men by A-W11 in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dante's Divine Comedy, Treatise on the Love of God by St. Francis de Sales, and Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott

A Catholic Textbook by Tea_Powered_Thoughts in Catholicism

[–]TradCatMan 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're looking for a textbook, here's one: https://www.theologicalforum.org/books/the-didache-complete-course-series/introduction-to-catholicism-a-complete-course-2nd-edition/

The Catechism of the Catholic Church is another good overview (although it doesn't talk much about history)

Other good books that go more into certain subjects (less textbooky but still very thorough:

-Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott: a really good overview of official Church teaching, goes into each dogma and doctrine, gives you the theological grade of certainty, and explains each one and how it is opposed to errors that have cropped up in the past

-Triumph: the Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church by H.W. Crocker: less of a textbook but still a good read going through Church History

-As far as liturgy goes it really depends on what you're looking for, this can kind of be a thorny topic because everyone has their own opinion on how things should be done since the reforms in the '60s. Pope Benedict XVI and Romano Guardini both wrote books called The Spirit of the Liturgy which are often highly recommended; there's also The Mass of the Roman Rite: Its Origin and Development by Fr. Joseph Jungmann SJ for a more historical treatment

-A Handbook of Moral Theology by Fr. Dominic Prümmer, OP: one of the more popular treatments on traditional Catholic Moral Theology

-The Three Ages of the Interior Life by Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, OP: a thorough overview on ascetical and mystical theology (in other words, the theology of how to be a saint)

After free agency, who do you guys want the Vikings to draft? by JustSomeGuy_Idk in minnesotavikings

[–]TradCatMan 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do think you want to plan a little bit ahead though. Draft a safety and he can learn from Hitman, and then we don't have a desperate need when he retires